I sincerely believe Khaos Labyrinthos shouldn't be a thing. Combined with our assassin means either the opponents dies. Or we die. The second he activates it someone needs to be taken out of the picture.

This and the fact that Locusta will also end up killing allies she doesn't know exist if this happens way to early

<Snipped quote by Shadow Daedalus>


<Snipped quote by vancexentan>

I'd argue that changes to Assassin would be more appropriate than nixing Khaos Labyrinth. The Labyrinth is intrinsically, statically tied to Daedalus. It's quantifiable in the sense that "we know it exists, approximately what it should do and why it deserves to be there". "A crystallization of lifestyle" and a psuedo-Reality Marble on the other hand are generally more malleable to change on account of being customized.

But Locusta's already accepted* and the Labyrinth needs preptime for deployment so

_{*Speaking of which, this has been bothering me for a bit, but why does she not just have Poison Resistance as a skill if her NP feels the need to point out her universal immunity?}

Because Charak forgot to list it before it was accepted

Edit: Hassan of serenity doesn't have poison immunity either huh. (at least with an applied rank)

(but if we must know her poison immunity is A+)

Because Charak forgot to list it before it was accepted

Do you want to change it?

Also, I had considered the possibility of using Daedalus and Locusta's NPs in tandem, but there are two huge problems with doing so. The first is that they both take hours if not a whole day (maybe more for Daedalus) to activate, requiring a lot of work and prep time to make use of. That's the kind of stuff your opponent would need to be blind to not notice. The second is civilian casualties. Activate either or both of these NPs in a heavily populated area and there are just going to be so many dead civilians. This again makes using them alone or together more unwieldly and much more obvious to your enemy.

Basically, it's like placing a sign that says "free candy inside" outside a munitions dump and expecting your opponent to wander in and get blown up. It'll kill them dead with no chance for escape if it works, but they'd have to be the world's biggest idiots to fall for it.

Edit: Hassan of serenity doesn't have poison immunity either huh. (at least with an applied rank)

ProtoFrag doesn't rank anything but NPs for some reason.

But hey at least Grand Order is finally useful! Coming in clutch w/ those rankings.

EDIT: What the fuck, Grand Order? You had one job.

I still don't agree with it. The second ANYONE is inside of it be it they were tricked, or not they can't get out unless they either kill our caster, or we take one of our enemy servants off the list. Unless we allow the enemy servant to die in there, while that is the purpose of the roleplay, it still means it guarantees a death the second it is used. As a GM I read it and immediately think: This is either a way to kill off a troublesome enemy character who we have no other way of doing so, or it's the biggest pain in the ass ever.

@Turboshitter

Simply give her Poison Resistance A+ on her sheet and that covers that.

@Cojemo


Just saw the faceclaim for your CS thought you might like this

@Turboshitter I'd also like to offer this alternative to the poison scenario:

"Lancer, and Berserker ran around the corner chasing their target. They were just out of reach always. They couldn't fail to catch this fool even if it meant having to find the enemy caster who made this labyrinth. However Lancer felt a twinge of caution wondering what the hell was in this place. They lost sight of the target as it rounded a corner. The ground rumbled. Berserker paid no heed but Lancer stopped wondering what was happening. Berserker barely heard the words that came next...'-RENT ARTHUR!' was the last words that he ever heard as a blazing red light evaporated his being. He couldn't dodge, and he couldn't move out of the way as the corridors around him were too tight. All that remained was the scattered prana of Berserker's being as the wave of energy smashed into the wall causing an explosive blast that knocked back Lancer dazing him."

The second Mordred unleashes Clarent into a sealed, confined space with nigh unbreakable walls means anything in it's way is fucked.

@Turboshitter I'd also like to offer this alternative to the poison scenario:

"Lancer, and Berserker ran around the corner chasing their target. They were just out of reach always. They couldn't fail to catch this fool even if it meant having to find the enemy caster who made this labyrinth. However Lancer felt a twinge of caution wondering what the hell was in this place. They lost sight of the target as it rounded a corner. The ground rumbled. Berserker paid no heed but Lancer stopped wondering what was happening. Berserker barely heard the words that came next...'-RENT ARTHUR!' was the last words that he ever heard as a blazing red light evaporated his being. He couldn't dodge, and he couldn't move out of the way as the corridors around him were too tight. All that remained was the scattered prana of Berserker's being as the wave of energy smashed into the wall causing an explosive blast that knocked back Lancer dazing him."

The second Mordred unleashes Clarent into a sealed, confined space with nigh unbreakable walls means anything in it's way is fucked.

That seems like a very unlikely scenario given she'd have to navigate the labyrinth full of deadly traps herself first just to find them. And she would have to, because the likelihood of encountering someone in a mile-wide maze by just standing in one spot is astronomically low.

@Turboshitter@vancexentan Just a suggestion, but perhaps it needs some kind of get-out clause? Theseus was able to escape it, so there should be some kind of exit, or at least another condition upon which the NP can be ended.

<Snipped quote by vancexentan>

That seems like a very unlikely scenario given she'd have to navigate the labyrinth full of deadly traps herself first just to find them. And she would have to, because the likelihood of encountering someone in a mile-wide maze by just standing in one spot is astronomically low.

Not if that spot is the exit



EDIT:

@Turboshitter@vancexentan Just a suggestion, but perhaps it needs some kind of get-out clause? Theseus was able to escape it, so there should be some kind of exit, or at least another condition upon which the NP can be ended.

Asterios' Khaos Labyrinthos has this so I support this suggestion.

@TurboshitterBelating the point that Caster can likely help Saber at least get into a better position by manipulating his own power, or helping Saber through some sort of other mentions not counting her own Instinct Skill I still refuse to accept something like this. It's only point is to solidify that SOMETHING is going to die, or get seriously injured unless Caster can immediately back out of the phantasm. If we have second thoughts on the matter, or if something goes wrong it doesn't matter the phantasm is up, people are inside of it, and the condition is locked. We can't cheese it like we can with the poisoner and have some sort of bizarre magic save someone, and we can deus ex machina someone surviving Blood Clarent. This is a DEFINITE thing.

<Snipped quote by Shadow Daedalus>

Totally not pulling a genderbend on Icarus... It's Fate, I can get away with it

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@vancexentan As far as I can see, Khaos Labyrinthos is a late-game Noble Phantasm to begin with, and he can already dispel it at will, but if its seriously that much of an issue I can adjust the properties of the character to try and nerf it a little. I can reduce the damage resistance of the walls (to maybe a STR requirement of B), and put his Mana stat back to B so that it is more difficult to summon. As for an escape route, I'm not opposed to adding one, if it quiets this issue somewhat.

I will not, however, drop the phantasm completely, as it is one of the most intrinsic aspects of Daedalus's myth. If i do that, I might as well scrap this Caster completely and start again.

I can tell if I pursue this any further not only will I create a toxic environment, but I'd also likely go into breaking rule 1 of the guild. I'll let it pass if you give ways for us to out it as gm's if necessary. I don't like it. At all. But I know when to fold my hand.

@vancexentan I'd like you to be as comfortable as I can with the idea, so do you have any adjustments that could be made, if only to alleviate a small portion of your discontent?

@Shadow DaedalusNone that haven't already been suggested. I HATE the mere concepts of stuff that force things to happen. I can use some sort of bizarre shield like Rhos Aias to null Blood Clarent, I can use some sort of bubble shield to minimize the poison. How do you nerf, or outpace a maze?

@vancexentan If I reduce the damage resistance, brute force or anything designed to defeat buildings. Hercules, Beowulf or any other strong hero could just smash their way through a stone wall. Explosions work too. Is that a little more fair?

Fair enough that should at least let a few of the enemy servants get out.

Alright then. Can we agree that Daedalus is accepted now? If so, I'll add him to the tab.

@vancexentan
You can do what to minimize the poison? A bubble shield...? That doesn't sound right. If you were constantly purging the toxins (turning it into more of a poison on the Od then on the body) then maybe. But a bubble shield doesn't sound right.

@1Charak2If you're trapped in an area with Toxin a natural response would be to try to hold your breath, prevent any more toxin from getting into your body (like my bubble shield idea), and hunker down and hope that it either passes, or someone helps you. If you would allow me to use an example from another series in KOTOR 2 The Jedi Exile used a variation of this method to survive a place that was toxic to the point where contact with human flesh would cause seizures. He called upon the force to help him hold his breath while he fought through the whole thing.