Normalizing combative and antagonistic behavior that has influenced the actions of several minors on the site.

Wasn't on Valhalla for the blacklist or whatever so I can't comment on that.

But this...

Uh... what? The only one you could argue was influenced was grim, and even then you act like grim isn't her own person and can't make her own decisions. And I heavily doubt Valhalla normalized anything.

What other minors have been supposedly affected by this?

Normalizing combative and antagonistic behavior that has influenced the actions of several minors on the site.

Wasn't on Valhalla for the blacklist or whatever so I can't comment on that.

But this...

Uh... what? The only one you could argue was influenced was grim, and even then you act like grim isn't her own person and can't make her own decisions. And I heavily doubt Valhalla normalized anything.

What other minors have been supposedly affected by this?

I don’t think it’d be appropriate to mention them for the same reason I did not name any names in my outline of adult members involved.

<Snipped quote by Nytem4re>
I don’t think it’d be appropriate to mention them for the same reason I did not name any names in my outline of adult members involved.

Well, you're accusing Valhalla of somehow tainting "minors."

Where is the goddamn proof? You just can't throw out an accusation with little to no evidence. it's basically saying "THINK OF THE CHILDREN"

What minors? You're basically going like trust me on this wild accusation.

I will remain to be discreet whether it is favorable to you or not.

I will remain to be discreet whether it is favorable to you or not.

So can I say "inkarnate has normalized combative and antagonistic behavior that has influenced the actions of several minors on the site."

What minors? Nah, just trust me, he's been influencing them.

It's a serious accusation that holds no basis in reality.

Ok. This thread is starting to get heated. Cool it down or I will be forced to lock the thread, even if only temporarily, so that things can level out before discussion can continue.

Lmao Grim is the only minor in that list consider she's like six but I thought Grim didn't deserve anything or w/e.

I'm going to try banging my head with a mallet, clash of clans + anime wasn't enough to let me get in the right frame of mind

The foundation is already there in Grimhildr’s actions, but I suppose you attribute that a minor such as she wasn’t influenced by the behavior and rhetoric on that server – I can tell that you disagree based on your conclusion that she independently changed perspectives on a whim in little under a year.

Edit: Now with all of my replies asked of me sent, I’m a little mentally exhausted right now and I’ll probably sit out the thread for a few more pages unless personally addressed. I have several roleplays that I’m responsible for and require my attention and energy over a discussion about site politics. Ciao.

The foundation is already there in Grimhildr’s actions, but I suppose you attribute that a minor such as she wasn’t influenced by the behavior and rhetoric on that server – I can tell that you disagree based on your conclusion that she independently changed perspectives on a whim in little under a year.

Valhalla didn't force her to stay or listen. It was at her own behest that she switched "perspectives".

She was also in the QSA, so... yeah, she could make her own choices. It's not as if Valhalla trapped her somewhere and brainwashed her into thinking differently. She decided on her own behaviors and actions. If she was in QSA, being a minor wouldn't your own theory say that she would have not changed perspective?

Why are we still talking about Grim? Her situation is completely tangent from the matter at hand.

The foundation is already there in Grimhildr’s actions, but I suppose you attribute that a minor such as she wasn’t influenced by the behavior and rhetoric on that server – I can tell that you disagree based on your conclusion that she independently changed perspectives on a whim in little under a year.

Edit: Now with all of my replies asked of me sent, I’m a little mentally exhausted right now and I’ll probably sit out the thread for a few more pages unless personally addressed. I have several roleplays that I’m responsible for and require my attention and energy over a discussion about site politics. Ciao.

In that case I'd like to formally petition RPG official be closed as underage members have repeatedly used it to falsely threaten suicide and nobody did anything.

Someone think of the children.

Really? This is your argument? You're going after Valhalla as a whole now? lol

Why are we still talking about Grim? Her situation is completely tangent from the matter at hand.

At this point I really just think Inkarnate is just trying to bait people into getting the thread closed.

You know what, thank goodness we have this thread. This discussion is helping me communicate with others in all of my life's little communities. And this discussion that I am reading is actually easing the tension and keeping me in a peaceful and pleasant mood.

I cannot thank everyone enough.

I dont think this thread should end. There should always be discussion.

I've been lurking this thread for a while now, and I don't have a whole lot to say that hasn't already been said, but I do have a small bit.

Aside from the "y'all need a chill pill" thoughts I'm having, the one thing I want to say is that, for the most part, I think the mod team has been doing their job fine enough. I'm not here to defend them, but they do seem to be getting absolutely hammered over here. Speaking as a member who doesn't chat and confines himself to mostly my own RPs and the bitchin' thread, all I've seen is them doing their job as they should without any major screwups. Iunno any of the banned individuals personally, but you'd have to fuck up pretty majorly on multiple accounts to get to that state. It's not as if I've seen anyone go mad with power and go on a banning spree of everyone who's face they didn't like.

So far I've seen mods hide posts when asked to, help out when I've asked questions and nuked spambots. Pretty average stuff. The only thing I'd like to really see that was brought up in this thread is more transparency, because that's always a good thing... or the "Freeze account" thing Sherlock mentioned. I think it'd at least calm down the people upset with the direction the site is going in and be a quality of life improvement over all.

...but seriously people, stop jumping down each other's throats and slandering individuals. That ain't good for nobody.

<Snipped quote by The Spectre>
That is a very large question, Spectre. But here is my brief observations based on my time there and what I’ve noticed, and I by no means am innocent as I was just as involved for a large amount of time.

Alright, I am going to respond to every point that you made since I have been in that discord for a while. And I know about the blacklist that you are talking about.

• An emotional outrage due to Ruby’s pre-moderator behavior that led for members to call for Ruby’s demotion. Statements like “I have plans.”, “Ruby isn’t going to be punished?” among other things created the precedent to inform staff of what appeared to be the beginnings of a witch hunt.

And that's a fair point. Several members (including me) were calling for Ruby's demotion because of her actions. And I don't think that it was bad. People were rightfully upset by Ruby's action and demanded that she was punished. It sounds fair to me. It isn't bad to ask why the staff isn't doing anything about the whole Ruby situation. Do you think it's bad?

• Normalizing combative and antagonistic behavior that has influenced the actions of several minors on the site.

Wait, what? I hope that you have some examples that directly links to Valhalla? I can understand if you are talking about Grim but it sounds like you are talking about other people besides Grim. I think that everyone on the server won't want to normalize bad behavior on minors. Plus, I am not a minor. I am nineteen years old, just in case you think that I am one. And @Nytem4re is doing a good job of explaining it for me so I don't have to write more.

• Gossiping about members in a rather deplorable manner, fixating on members rather than simple venting.

Some users do treat members harshly because they have reason to do so. But, we haven't never talked shit about them beyond our server. We have formed our own opinions on several based on proof. Please tell me an example where someone was targeted by members of Valhalla.

• Such behavior leaking onto the site in the cases of Grimhildr’s departure and those who involved with the community created accounts to circumnavigate the rules of the guild to re-post said thread which was locked and deleted for significant reasons.

That whole situation was Grim's doing. None of us made Grim do what they did. Almost everyone disagreed with Grim on what they did and said; but, that doesn't mean that they didn't raised several good points. Like what I said in the private message to Mahz:

"...In that thread, he highlighted important matters about the staff members including you. However, the thread was immature and contained statements like: "deadbeat fuckface" and "i hope you all die." The staff members banned him and removed the thread because he broke the rules. I agree that the thread was rude and inflammatory but it raised points that should not be ignored..."

At the end of the day, Grim is their own person. They can do whatever they want to and no-one can stop them.

• Hosting a 'blacklist' describing users on the site people were discouraged with due to various reasons; essentially normalizing ostracizing people of the community.

Yes, you are right about the blacklist. The server used to have a blacklist where we had a list of users to not trust. However, they were only used for roleplaying purposes. They listed users who had caused drama on purpose, left roleplays without any explanation, and so on. We didn't make falsely accused anyone and we always provided a link to back our claims. However, the blacklist doesn't exist anymore. Odin removed it since no-one used it. If you want to ask him why he made a blacklist in the first place, then go ahead because I don't know why.

• Influencing community politics in a problematic manner.

Like I said earlier, please name one thing that we have influenced. I agree with what Nytem4re said. I think you are trying to upset someone so the thread can be locked. Especially with statements like "Valhalla causes minors to do and say bad things!!!" I don't want the thread to be locked at all and upset Cyndyr, who wants this thread to be peaceful and open for discussion. So, please stop baiting people into writing long rant posts. It will not get us anywhere and it will just get this thread locked.

EDIT: Fixed somethings that I missed.

Valhalla is its separate entity in regards to the Guild. I will not say that it is entirely innocent of causing occasional discourse whether intentional or not, but the claims outlined above against it seem to be entirely false and will be accepted as such until proof is provided. That being said, mentions of Valhalla are diverting us from the main focus of the thread, so please remain on topic.

Thank you in advanced.

I am exhausted from watching this thread straight from this morning until now. I am leaving to take a break, grab dinner, and maybe paint/draw for a bit to clear my mind. Ya'll behave and be civil. This is not the cue to derail the thread or get volatile because I'm sure another mod will be monitoring things and the threat to close the thread if things go south still stands.

Meanwhile, my PMs are always open if you need me, or you can tag me in a post and I'll see it/answer upon my return.

Like the Terminator, I'll be back.

I'd just like to say Valhalla has no ties to guild other than having some members from guild. Let's now get back to the real issues.

I do realize I'm mostly saying what everyone else has already been, but I figured it doesn't hurt for it to come from one more person.

I'm one of the older members of "Valhalla", Odin's discord server. (And the predecessors to those, as I've known the dude for forever.) Like Cyndyr touched on; in literally no shape or form does that Discord server serve as an official server to the guild. Members who are active on the discord server are not in any way, shape or form connected to the guild, the only connection to be made is that most of us know each other from this website. To insinuate any of this is the fault of the discord is ludicrous. "Grim was influenced". Who. The. Hell. Cares? We want to censor Youtube content creators who's biggest demographics are teens from dropping F-bombs, because it might make Teenagers say "Fuck you" to their teacher? No, of course not.

Come on. This is not a real discussion we're having in a thread about issues on the Guild. Inkarnate is clearly projecting his own feelings of Valhalla and it's members onto this thread. He ran away from the server with his tail between his legs, after it was abundantly clear he was not welcome there. No one kicked him, he wasn't banned, he left. If there ever was a bias to be considered, it's that one. Please, everyone, focus to the topic at hand.

It was a good post Hillan, until you said the part about Inkarnate running away with his tail between his legs and not being welcome there.

We should consider how Inkarnate would feel having to read that.

@Hillan