I'm liking the idea of showing Mychel become a Tywin Lannister sort of political monster before Tyrion's very eyes. Seeing his good intentions (for the people of the Vale) and his increasing fascination with the scheming styles of Tywin and Tyrion turn him from a kind, honest young lord into an extreme pragmatist willing to kill family for "the good of the realm".

Also, how do you feel about a "Mychel is in fact a bastard and Cronun is Harry's son" plot twist?

That sounds like interesting plot development, but I think where Mychel is now, it'd be a bit weird for him to jump straight into Tywin Lannister lol, I think it could be built up of course. It really depends on how it's handled and how the story itself actually unfolds.

Hmm, would you care to elaborate how that would work?

Agreed. Definitely gotta take my time with this. But it's nice to have an end-goal of sorts... provided he doesn't get prematurely killed by the game of thrones. :P

I didn't really think about it much at first, but I did make Mychel look nothing like his dad. Which gave me the idea "what if Robin Arryn isn't in fact his dad, and his mother had him with somebody else entirely (not Harry)". Though Mychel wouldn't find out anywhere near now in the RP, I like the idea of Harry knowing and being the one to tell him just as Mychel is consolidating power (or attempting to), and threatening Mychel to reveal it in public. This would be, I think, what would push Mychel over the edge and make him stop caring about House Arryn entirely, and be willing to kill Harry and others for power.

We've already kind of established Cronun has Arryn looks. Honestly, I don't think it's necessary for Harry to be his real father,
but either way, I do like the idea of Cronun being an Arryn bastard, or a direct descendant of an Arryn bastard.

What I'm thinking of is building up a close relationship between Cronun and Mychel (friendly or otherwise), Mychel seeing him as an ally (and later, perhaps, as a tool for his power-grabbing). Then, when their respective heritages come into play, Mychel struggling with the idea that Cronun's Arryn blood could one day make him a threat to his power in the Vale.

I think of Cat as more of a populist revolutionary in the making, like Daenerys in her youth but without the Targaryen sense of entitlement. One possible direction I have in mind for Cat is her becoming a sort of pro-secular humanist or Martin Luther figure, challenging the Faith's power and supporting deep political reforms.

Well Robin Arryn is supposed to have dark looks, so he's not THAT much different. But who would his actual father be then? And there'd have to be a good reason that Harry wouldn't reveal this immediately.

It's an interesting idea, but Tywin did things for his family, so it's very different. Straight power hungry stuff is much more like Littlefinger haha. His goal for power should well have a goal, unless it's just power. But Mychel's personality hasn't really supported that so far.

The implication is that Cronun is the descendant of some Arryn bastard, most likely an Arryn maiden who was carried off. I could see something like this happening, but he wouldn't be that much of a threat. Since there are a lot of Arryn cadet branches and what not. His wildling tendencies might be however.

That could happen surely, but remember that the Faith is deeply entrenched in Westerosi society and that is a very difficult thing to change. And the fact that peasants have very little power in this feudal society as well and the overwhelming number of the nobility like it that way. I would be interested in seeing what kind of reforms, she would push for though, and she could certainly try.

Good points all. I don't know who his father would be, or even if he should be anyone of note. And yeah, thinking about it, I'd probably end up stretching Harry's characterization too much to fit that idea of him knowing and not saying anything for years.

It's true that Tywin Lannister was all about family legacy. Mychel leans more towards nationalism, I'd say, worrying more about the prestige of the Vale's nobility as a whole, and the strength and prosperity of the realm, than his family.

Good points there too.

(Small confession: I started to get these sorts of ideas about Mychel's development after watching Richard III with Benedict Cuccumberpatch :P )

Agreed.

I think the idea can work, but we're kind of running up our quota on secret bastards haha. We'd have to see how it develops.

Ah that's true, the Vale's honor and chivalry is of huge importance. But a big part of that is the supremacy of House Arryn as well. The Arryns are as closely tied to the Vale as the Starks are to the North.

I should probably watch that haha. I think Mychel can become more conniving certainly, but it has to be organic. And obviously a big part of Richard III, is that there are some other family he has to deal with, including some brothers and nephews, lol. Right now his only family he has any kind of relationship seem to be Robin and Harry.

And of course, it doesn't end well for Richard lol. But it'd be interesting to see how Mychel develops as a player of the Game, and how he compares with others.

Did you have any ideas on that kind of reforms she might want to push for? Because the more radical they are, the more dangerous and arduous the pursuit would be.

Lol

We'll see how things go with the RP. Whatever ideas I might have could end up becoming obsolete as the RP progresses.

I don't quite know yet, given that I don't know exactly what she'd have to work with. :P

She'd definitely challenge the legitimacy of trials overseen by the Faith, oppose the High Septon's presence in the Small Council, support stricter overarching protections for the rights of the smallfolk (and greater oversight over the nobility from the Iron Throne) and a shift towards smallfolk-led governments on at least the level of towns and villages. Plus, on the more strictly Faith matters, she'd be an outspoken opponent of bigotry, authoritarianism and corruption in the Faith's hierarchy.

Also, because of her relationship with the Maegyrs and her attitude towards the Essosi, she'd support integration policies, greater religious freedom, and be the most ardent advocate for the Iron Thrones' campaigns against oppression, both in Westeros and Essos.

Cat is going to do the English Reformation....Westeros Style

I predict a nasty mess will ensure.

It's gonna be great. :P

I can tell the Florent Fire Lord Worshippers would be keen on the idea