I don't generally enjoy games from that genre or any genre that don't require skill

But that's wrong. They do require skills, they're just different skills.

An RPG tests your ability to strategize on the fly given limited resources and a ton of information you need to keep track of, as well as needing to not push your luck. And there is an elment of mechanical prowess involved in hack-and-slashes, that being the mere fact you need to dash around and kite enemies 'cause if you stand in one place, you're going to get overwhelmed and die.

Chess doesn't challenge the same skills as something like Magic the Gathering does. Both require intimate knowledge about the game you're playing, but one is static and never changing while the other is continually evolving and requires you to adapt on the fly based on what you're given.

In another example, you wouldn't say Poker is a lesser game to, say, Shogi. Shogi has no elements of luck, while you can get dealt straight pairs all night in Poker. Yet both games are still very skill intensive, but with Poker it's knowledge about what your opponents have Vs. you, as well as being able to read a room.

It's fine if you don't like the appeal of these games, but saying they require no skill is... odd. They challenge a different set of skills than what you'd like them to, sure, but they still challenge skills. When I'm playing FFXIV, I'm not going to be able to do a level 80 dungeon with level 50 gear. That being said, you can clear any content with any class that does have appropriate gear, and the community that forms around doing Savage content isn't any less skilled because their characters need to have the appropriate stats first.

I guess skill wasn't the right word. Blame english not being my first language. What I was trying to explain is that because such games do not require direct immediate input from me as the player during the act of playing as opposed to basically spreadsheet work outside of the actual gameplay of combat they do not pose an enjoyable challenge to me. It's just bookkeeping basically. The closest thing I could compare them to is say football manager vs an actual sports game where you control the players.

To me games like that could literally be made better by simply streamlining them by cutting out all the graphics and just giving me the outcome of each fight in a text popup. "You lose 3 HP and gain 13XP. Next fight." Because ultimately I don't feel like I am participating outside of the spreadsheet character building part. So all that standing around doing nothing watching my character do his thing is just wasting my time.

I guess skill wasn't the right word. Blame english not being my first language. What I was trying to explain is that because such games do not require direct immediate input from me as the player during the act of playing as opposed to basically spreadsheet work outside of the actual gameplay of combat they do not pose an enjoyable challenge to me.

I mean, Diablo still requires you to move and avoid attacks and be generally quick about it - especially on the harder difficulties.

<Snipped quote by PPQ Purple>

I mean, Diablo still requires you to move and avoid attacks and be generally quick about it - especially on the harder difficulties.

Depends on which Diablo your refering to?

RTS is an equally fucky point of comparison when RTS games are notorious for turning into micromanaging nightmares on the highest level. Sure, it doesn't have to be starcraft II levels of bonkers micro, but watch TheViper play in AoEII and you'll see how he's just way better at pressing buttons compared to most any other player on top of knowing the game extremely well.

viper is a poopoohead, i'm a liery or yo boy myself

Either way there is no need to turn this into a debate. It's not like either of us is right or wrong. We just have very different tastes.

Interesting thought:

Arthur Morgan and/or John Marston from Red Dead Redemption in either a Smash Bros: Ultimate update or the next Smash Bros game.

@Smarty Jones Don't you need to be an anime swordsman to get into smash these days?

Interesting thought:

Arthur Morgan and/or John Marston from Red Dead Redemption in either a Smash Bros: Ultimate update or the next Smash Bros game.

You beautiful moron, I like your moxy but come on! It's obvious Solaire deserves a spot in Smash amiright?

@Smarty Jones Don't you need to be an anime swordsman to get into smash these days?

Sakurai's Will is Law.

minecraft is my favorite anime swordsman but arms is my second favorite anime sword

no wait fatal fury is my favorite anime swordsman

minecraft is my favorite anime swordsman but arms is my second favorite anime sword

no wait fatal fury is my favorite anime swordsman

I think Wario is my favorite anime swordsman.

ET for Atari

I'm not sure how I feel about the PS5 UI but boy do I like the controller a whole lot and really hope devs take advantage of it in the years to come.

Seeing how much they took advantage of the PS4's touchpad. Call me a skeptic on that front.

Well, Christmas nearly cut my Steam wishlist in half. So I have an absolute fuck ton of new games to play. (Including those recently recommended.) So hopefully that will keep me occupied and capable of having things to talk about.

Such as my first impressions of Ori's sequel, which seems to be an improvement gameplay/combat wise. Though its opening certainly fails to be as emotionally effective this time around. But I haven't played more yet because my friend's now making me spend most of my time playing more Borderlands with him. (This time it's the Prequel.) So, I will be thoroughly sick of 'Spambush: The Game' sometime in the near future, I'm sure. Especially since the Prequel is already starting to feel like a lesser version of 2. (And I'd rather be playing Ori over Borderlands, at the very least. But I'm not anti-social enough to say no to a friend. So, endlessly grind I must.)

Also, if I can complain about grind for a moment. Final Fantasy 14 was a solid time sink. (While playing with others.) But holy fuck, leveling jobs in this game genuinely feels like soul sucking work. So in the same way people hope for the new generation consoles not to be massive disappointments. I will wish for a future MMO (or hell, I'll even take a MOBA) that might actually be fun.

Plus, in a way and reason I can't specify. (So feel free to use your own imagination.) My roommate has thoroughly destroyed his Switch very recently. So maybe I'll ask to acquire his joystick, and save myself the literal months long impossibility of finding a single left blue joycon at any retail store. (Mwhaha. Nintendo, why do always have to keep your products so understocked?)

Also, if I can complain about grind for a moment. Final Fantasy 14 was a solid time sink. (While playing with others.) But holy fuck, leveling jobs in this game genuinely feels like soul sucking work.

I can't say I agree with you on this, because with the armory boost and the adventurer in need stuff plus just good old dungeon running, levelling jobs has rarely been enjoyable. Plus leves and the like make the crafting jobs way easier than ever. I'm curious what aspect you didn't enjoy and if it was POTD then I guess that's understandable.

binged the entire kiseki series this summer, on CS3 now, crossbell kino, randy orlando is peak fiction

my game of the year is XCDE

I can't say I agree with you on this, because with the armory boost and the adventurer in need stuff plus just good old dungeon running, levelling jobs has rarely been enjoyable. Plus leves and the like make the crafting jobs way easier than ever. I'm curious what aspect you didn't enjoy and if it was POTD then I guess that's understandable.

It sounds like you do agree, maybe? I dunno.

*shrugs* I don't know how much "fun" I had playing FF14 exactly. Since the combat is fairly mindless for the class I played. (Summoner) Admittedly, I wasn't exactly enthralled by the story either. (Which is supposed to be its greatest strength.) But it was an alright experience. (Probably due to playing with others. Though it *is* that kind of game.) Certainly never runs out of quests to throw at you, even if a lot of them are "teleport to one side of map, and then teleport back again."

But I was just itching to play an MMO again. Though I was really starting to feel the grind while trying to level certain jobs. Since most of it involved finding particular items that I needed to craft. Having no NPC that sells that item. Using the shop, then dreading the fact that everyone sells things overpriced and in bulk. Soul sucking is a hyperbole. But it was just tedious enough that I wondered if I could be playing more engaging things instead.

*shrugs* I don't know how much "fun" I had playing FF14 exactly. Since the combat is fairly mindless for the class I played. (Summoner)

Up to how far did you play? Because one of the problems I'll happily admit XIV has is that the skill pruning done each expansion has made earlier levels feel incomplete. Summoner actually becomes fairly intimate with having to keep track of various timers at level 80, but you need to get to level 80 and do level 80 content for that to matter. Summoner only gets something resembling its intended gameplan at 60, and doesn't even start to feel like itself until 70.

No real good solution to it either because of the linear progression FFXIV is built on and the fact they want to have a hard cap on how many buttons you press to keep it controller-friendly.

@Ammokkx In MMO veteran land, I scratched the surface. (Mid 50-ish? I believe.)

I mean, I could easily see myself spending more time on the story and side quests for a bit longer. But I just can't sit there and cook/fish. I'll go insane.