@Exit Wise words from your friend and something younger me would have liked to know. I am happy people here are so understanding. It's nice to be able to play who I want without judgement.
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BrokenPromise With Rightious Hands
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Meant to respond a bit sooner but "lol internet trouble."
But I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. I thought you were a guy because your first character was a young edgy assassin chick, which is something I could see a lot of teenage boys wanting to play. That and you were into Touhou which is something that a lot of guys are into as well. I was never entirely certain. It was never stated on your profile page and we never really sat down to talk about your other hobbies more extensively. But that was what lead me to think that. What may have confused you about me was my love of creating (and ending) ships as well as the types of characters I played. A a well mannered nanny doesn't really strike me as the sort of character most guys would want to play. My guess is if I had a certain "perverted pink-haired ronin" in our first RP you may have suspected I was a guy.
I can see the thoughts of the opposite gender being miswritten though. But honestly, everyone will only ever see the world from their own perspective. I have seen a few men written by woman that are maybe a bit more emotional or submissive than I would expect them to do, but I never felt their actions and thoughts didn't make sense as characters. I can't even say that the writers being the "wrong" gender to write their characters factored into this. Teenagers tend to be fairly emotional people, and character written by them and for them are also prone to mood swings and such.
Ehh...
Look Exit, you're a pretty cool guy and everything. Is her picture aesthetic? Yes. Is she hot? Also yes. But does she have that cute appeal that Ammokkx and I are trying to cultivate? Not really. I feel like she'd step on me if she was given the chance. Like, I'm almost scared of her. Also there's nothing cute about having a lala sugar daddy buy all of your nice clothes. I have a lala anyway.
But maybe we don't need to be the cutest mi'qote. Maybe the real cutest mi'qote is the friends we made along the way.
And yes I'm one of the ones who thought @BrokenPromise was the opposite gender. But hey, it turned out he thought I was a guy so, *shrug*
But I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. I thought you were a guy because your first character was a young edgy assassin chick, which is something I could see a lot of teenage boys wanting to play. That and you were into Touhou which is something that a lot of guys are into as well. I was never entirely certain. It was never stated on your profile page and we never really sat down to talk about your other hobbies more extensively. But that was what lead me to think that. What may have confused you about me was my love of creating (and ending) ships as well as the types of characters I played. A a well mannered nanny doesn't really strike me as the sort of character most guys would want to play. My guess is if I had a certain "perverted pink-haired ronin" in our first RP you may have suspected I was a guy.
I can see the thoughts of the opposite gender being miswritten though. But honestly, everyone will only ever see the world from their own perspective. I have seen a few men written by woman that are maybe a bit more emotional or submissive than I would expect them to do, but I never felt their actions and thoughts didn't make sense as characters. I can't even say that the writers being the "wrong" gender to write their characters factored into this. Teenagers tend to be fairly emotional people, and character written by them and for them are also prone to mood swings and such.
<Snipped quote by Ammokkx>
<Snipped quote by BrokenPromise>
This is incorrect. I am the cutest on the 'other' side of Eorzea.
But then my main is a rich Lala boi so naturally I win twice. Anyways RPG FC anyone?
Ehh...
Look Exit, you're a pretty cool guy and everything. Is her picture aesthetic? Yes. Is she hot? Also yes. But does she have that cute appeal that Ammokkx and I are trying to cultivate? Not really. I feel like she'd step on me if she was given the chance. Like, I'm almost scared of her. Also there's nothing cute about having a lala sugar daddy buy all of your nice clothes. I have a lala anyway.
But maybe we don't need to be the cutest mi'qote. Maybe the real cutest mi'qote is the friends we made along the way.
<Snipped quote by Majoras End>
But I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. I thought you were a guy because your first character was a young edgy assassin chick,
Ahah, you were...right on the teenage part. Jfc, I don't even wanna revisit that rabbit hole right now but yeah. She may live rent free in my head but I currently prefer my roster atm.
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BangoSkank Halfway Intriguing Halfling
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4 days ago
I'm glad we can all discuss this like adults. You know some real mature, open minded, slightly opposing viewpoints while finding a reasonable middle ground and respecting how we differ from one another. Some real kumbayah stuff.
Now I can I get more details on this scary lady that's stepping on people? Hook a Bango up.
Now I can I get more details on this scary lady that's stepping on people? Hook a Bango up.
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I got zero preferences just cuz I tend to always try and fill an archetype that's missing. Majority dudes in an RP? In comes a girl. Majority girls? Same thing. Plus I try to balance out personalities, appearances, philosophies, etc. It always pushes me to really examine everyone else's sheets and characters closely, which IMO is a good thing to do. And I get to write a whole slew of different stuff!
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Ammokkx ShaDObA TaNOsHiI
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1 day ago
But then my main is a rich Lala boi so naturally I win twice. Anyways RPG FC anyone?
Also there's nothing cute about having a lala sugar daddy buy all of your nice clothes. I have a lala anyway.
I-
So is this the point where I reveal I have a lala alt myself? Because I do.
I swear I'll stop going offtopic please don't bonk me poohead
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Gravity Bounce The Guilty Goddess of Roleplay.
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1 mo ago
You can play whoever you want. Have at it. The only thing would be avoiding stereotypes. I've seen guys writing females that have hit every type of stereotype in the book. I have also seen girls do the same thing. So, you can write who you want just do some research. The same thing with doing characters of a different race or ethnicity. Do. Your. Research. Don't be lazy about it either. I myself am a Person of color as they say. There's nothing worse than seeing characters like myself be made to as a walking talking caricature when a bit of research could go a long way. Or the focus of said character is just their skin color. It's annoying.
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You can play whoever you want. Have at it. The only thing would be avoiding stereotypes. I've seen guys writing females that have hit every type of stereotype in the book. I have also seen girls do the same thing. So, you can write who you want just do some research. The same thing with doing characters of a different race or ethnicity. Do. Your. Research. Don't be lazy about it either. I myself am a Person of color as they say. There's nothing worse than seeing characters like myself be made to as a walking talking caricature when a bit of research could go a long way. Or the focus of said character is just their skin color. It's annoying.
>Agreed. Unless it leads to a subversion naturally, but even then you aren't using it just to enforce a stereotype.
>Also, this applies to non-human characters too, albeit in a different way. Like maybe your demons aren't dicks but the angels are, or vice versa. Or maybe Cthulhu is just a chill alien god that wants to go on a date with you as opposed to being the not-dead/not-living priest of R'lyeh destined to bring ruin upon the world. But yes, I agree. Stereotypes are not only tired and overdone tripe characteristic of a lazy writer, but in more than a few cases they're downright harmful.
Gravity Bounce The Guilty Goddess of Roleplay.
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1 mo ago
<Snipped quote by Gravity Bounce>
>Agreed. Unless it leads to a subversion naturally, but even then you aren't using it just to enforce a stereotype.
Can you explain what you mean?
<Snipped quote by Zyx>
Can you explain what you mean?
>I might be explaining this poorly, but what I mean is imagine you write a character that seems like a stereotype at first. Like the Dumb Blonde stereotype, only to subvert it by not playing into said stereotype, or even deconstructing it. That's what I mean. You're still writing and using a stereotype ultimately, just not at the most basic level, and generally not in a way that positively enforces or promotes it.
BangoSkank Halfway Intriguing Halfling
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4 days ago
Like someone using known preconceived notions, or stereotypes, about their group to their advantage.
A ditzy blonde bimbo, who is actually intelligent and diligent taking advantage of people assuming she's a brainless sexpot to move behind the scenes and get stuff done. A big Irish Ox type using a smaller smarter looking underling as a diversion. Have the suited and bespectacled slim and slick guy look like the shot caller while the big dumb bartender is the guy actually calling the shots.
Writing as different races, particularly in worlds that are similar to ours, is wrought with pitfalls. People are particularly prone to offense these days, so do you write a character to subvert expectations? Could cause problems. Do you write someone entirely divorced from stereotypes? That could cause an entirely different set of problems.
In my opinion if you're writing as a different sex/race/culture/whatever and particularly if it's an existing one you should ask yourself what you're bringing to it or if you're just using it to spice up some fairly mediocre writing. If you are adding an identity to a character to make it more interesting and not much more, don't. If you want to write a character of a certain background develop a character of that background. Read a little about that background. Try to figure out a unique character.
There are some pretty basic guidelines to at least show a good faith effort. Don't be the guy who writes that Miles Morales is Thor comic book. For fucks sake don't be that guy.
A ditzy blonde bimbo, who is actually intelligent and diligent taking advantage of people assuming she's a brainless sexpot to move behind the scenes and get stuff done. A big Irish Ox type using a smaller smarter looking underling as a diversion. Have the suited and bespectacled slim and slick guy look like the shot caller while the big dumb bartender is the guy actually calling the shots.
Writing as different races, particularly in worlds that are similar to ours, is wrought with pitfalls. People are particularly prone to offense these days, so do you write a character to subvert expectations? Could cause problems. Do you write someone entirely divorced from stereotypes? That could cause an entirely different set of problems.
In my opinion if you're writing as a different sex/race/culture/whatever and particularly if it's an existing one you should ask yourself what you're bringing to it or if you're just using it to spice up some fairly mediocre writing. If you are adding an identity to a character to make it more interesting and not much more, don't. If you want to write a character of a certain background develop a character of that background. Read a little about that background. Try to figure out a unique character.
There are some pretty basic guidelines to at least show a good faith effort. Don't be the guy who writes that Miles Morales is Thor comic book. For fucks sake don't be that guy.
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Gravity Bounce The Guilty Goddess of Roleplay.
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1 mo ago
<Snipped quote by Gravity Bounce>
>I might be explaining this poorly, but what I mean is imagine you write a character that seems like a stereotype at first. Like the Dumb Blonde stereotype, only to subvert it by not playing into said stereotype, or even deconstructing it. That's what I mean. You're still writing and using a stereotype ultimately, just not at the most basic level, and generally not in a way that positively enforces or promotes it.
Ah, that clears it up. Thanks.
You too, @BangoSkank
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Writing as different races, particularly in worlds that are similar to ours, is wrought with pitfalls. People are particularly prone to offense these days, so do you write a character to subvert expectations? Could cause problems. Do you write someone entirely divorced from stereotypes? That could cause an entirely different set of problems.
>I fail to see how writing a being without stereotypes is a bad thing. Note that I say being rather than human, as with humans or adjacent cultures to our own it's harder to do. Or prevent interpretation of such.
Gravity Bounce The Guilty Goddess of Roleplay.
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1 mo ago
Nevermind. I misread what was said. Quietly moving into the shadows again.
BangoSkank Halfway Intriguing Halfling
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4 days ago
<Snipped quote by BangoSkank>
>I fail to see how writing a being without stereotypes is a bad thing. Note that I say being rather than human, as with humans or adjacent cultures to our own it's harder to do. Or prevent interpretation of such.
Depends on what you include in stereotypes, and getting into trouble about it doesn't necessarily mean it is actually a bad thing. They can be accurate or inaccurate or somewhere in that spectrum. They can also be positive or negative and have a lot of implications or very few. They can also be dealt with respectfully or disrespectfully. Delicate issues.
A lot of it comes down to perception. The whole general "token" concept. If you're writing a woman who is in every way a male character except that you note in your intro post that she's a woman and you use female pronouns. That's one end of the issue. The other end is a character who is little more than a pile of preconceptions.
If you write a Native American woman character during the days of the Wild West when one generation back her people roamed a huge chunk of Nebraska and moved with the seasons, but now her and her family have been moved to a reservation and they and their children are being taught new ways, new languages, and a new religion. If you write her in a way that is indistinguishable from a white male settler or a British railroad magnate, it's not gonna make some folks happy. It's not a very considerate way to write a character.
(I used Native Americans as the example because I had some Native American characters in my Deadlands RP and was trying to figure out how to handle them right)
There are fewer stereotypes with aliens and folks are less likely to care. More likely to just be bored with your writing if you go for 1950s greys without some humor or conspiracy or something to stand out.
<Snipped quote by Zyx>
Depends on what you include in stereotypes, and getting into trouble about it doesn't necessarily mean it is actually a bad thing. They can be accurate or inaccurate or somewhere in that spectrum. They can also be positive or negative and have a lot of implications or very few. They can also be dealt with respectfully or disrespectfully. Delicate issues.
A lot of it comes down to perception. The whole general "token" concept. If you're writing a woman who is in every way a male character except that you note in your intro post that she's a woman and you use female pronouns. That's one end of the issue. The other end is a character who is little more than a pile of preconceptions.
If you write a Native American woman character during the days of the Wild West when one generation back her people roamed a huge chunk of Nebraska and moved with the seasons, but now her and her family have been moved to a reservation and they and their children are being taught new ways, new languages, and a new religion. If you write her in a way that is indie indistinguishable for a white male settler or a British railroad magnate, it's not gonna make some folks happy. It's not a very considerate way to write a character.
>I see. I'll admit that the reason for my confusion generally stems from making characters that aren't human, after all I think Draconians from Elden Ring have little in common with humans beyond being grey-skinned humanoids. Though I see what you're talking about with the Native American example. I can see how that would be offensive, not to mention confusing since the character isn't a settler or railroad magnate. But it would be a different context if said character was in reality an avatar of some eternal being living through various lives, and one of their old mannerisms bleeds through accidentally for a moment.
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