[OOC] The Prophecy

[cthulu]

@DJ No hurry with the Collab we can wait.

I haven't posted here for a while, the heat and I disagree quite a lot and it makes me...ill-tempered so I wanted to be able to type this without being in a foul mood.
I personally do not see anything wrong with the race options we have, when something new is thought up brilliant, but this just seems to me to be a way of going 'I want to play an untouchable, unbeatable awesome perfect character'. Which I can honestly say bores me to absolute tears. I think I got halfway into the description of each and went 'oh they're just human barbarians but too hard and strong for people to beat apparently. Yawn.' And stopped reading. Whats wrong with the Niin, Humans, Nightwalkers, Deigan, T...(forgotten the big massive don't mess with us characters we already have Ta...something?) or the rest of a plethora of races we have? Whats happened to all the small little vulnerable fragile characters that are actually FUN to roleplay with? Characters like Jaelenc who yes, is strong but nearly DIED at least once since I joined. Or Olan who pretty much did die if it weren't for Thaler's stupid wish. Characters as over powered as this and to some extent Aemoten make me feel like there's absolutely no point in me posting at all. They know everything, they can beat any enemy, they can survive any fight, so whats the point in me even being IN this roleplay when my character can't help at all and when she tries to, she magically becomes a fuck up and has to sit back and let the OP characters fix everything while tutting her, in my opinion, humanity.

[Shienvien]

...Nothing is wrong with niin, humans, deigan, Nightwalkers, Melenians, xuhrl-njok, tarken (you do not capitalize species except for Melenians and Nightwalkers, since those are from place names (Melenians from Melenaoth/Melenian Islands and Nightwalkers from Neitwakar) ... it is one of my greatest literary peeves, the unnecessary capitalization, and actually makes me physically cringe whenever I see it).

Aemoten, while immortal, is not overpowered, nor more powerful than Jaelnec or Thaler or Olan (he is making Thaler stay out of the current fight because of her mental condition, not because of her skill - if Jaelnec was suicidally depressed, he would not allow him to fight, either).
I actually estimate that Jaelnec would have better chances of winning than Aemoten in an one-or-one swordfight (or at the very least, I have tried to write him as being slightly inferior to Jaelnec in that regard). Aemoten has nearly died several times, too, and for the matter has been seriously injured notably more often than Jaelnec. He can request aid from the Six-Eyed God, true, but this is the one god who always takes something tangible in turn for favors. I am counting down on what he gives, and I tell you, Aemoten is quite strongly in the minus at the time being. (In a sense, an actual Favored One of any other deity is more overpowered, since although what they can do is more limited, they can do it indefinitely without a notable cost.)
The resurrections aren't exactly as easy as Thaler imagines it, either, the same as losing someone dear to him has never gotten any easier. (Do you also insist that if a mother loses one child, losing the other would not be as painful anymore? No! That is ludicrous!)

...I usually play average characters. Not weak. Nothing particularly spectacular, either. Not strong enough to effortlessly defeat anything but the lowliest grunts, but not so weak as to be violently butchered in the very first fight.

And I don't see where Legion says his people are harder to defeat than humans? I'd say they are about equal to humans in that regard, and far more easy to defeat than, say, tarken or xuhrl-njok, especially when not in numbers. The del-korm are more physically powerful, but put one against a tarke or a lohk, or a deigan or xuhrl-njok using magic, or just a bunch of basic commoner humans with crossbows who are in a fortified position, and the physical superiority disappears.
I know we had a bit of a run-in with power-scaling back in the day, but do not leap to conclusions prematurely. It does not do anyone justice.

They aren't playing their own races because their own races are more powerful. These races aren't more powerful than the established beings of Reniam, just different. They are playing them because of variety, and because they like those races and would like to try them in a different setting.

[cthulu]

Fair enough.

@DJ if I give you my email address could you e-mail me over the deigan and niin portions of the compendium? I will be retiring Thaler once we get to Zerul and I've had an idea for a new character but want to check my facts for each of the possible races.

[Shienvien]

...But you *can't retire Thaler. You just ... can't. :-(

[cthulu]

I hate her. I absoloutely hate roleplaying her at the moment. I love this rp but posting as her makes me frustrated, miserable and tempted to just quit. She hasnt been fun to play for a while and ive tried various things to inject some fun back into her (including the rilon stuff) all of which has been stopped or shut down before its had a chance to go anywhere. Making her as a character feel desperate, useless and pointless and breaking her all the more. So i just find myself more depressed whenever I have to post as her.

[Shienvien]

I don't think the combined forces of Olan and Jaelnec would be enough to convince Aemoten to continue if Thaler would be gone... The "Rilon stuff" was probably the last blow - all that time where he was feeling either utterly useless and miserable, and then lamenting and angry at said uselessness and still incapable of doing pretty much anything (many of those posts felt physically nasty to write). All he has for holding himself together at this point is the belief that he can somehow fix the situation with Thaler, and if that gets crushed... Then it's all. Done. He will collapse where he stands and get up no more. Literally. I would most likely have to out him and Etakar, too, at that point...

And if Thaler is gone, then Jaelnec might *never* get to be a Knight of the Will...

[cthulu]

So...emotional blackmail to try and get me to keep playing a character i really don't want to play? Great. Just what I wanted.
I'm sure DJ could keep her around as an NPC controlled by members of the group if she's really THAT integral to their survival as a group.

[Rhaevnn Xeno]

I have to agree with Shien on this one. Thaler can't be retired! She's one of my favorite characters ( both as a character it general and in the story)!! :C I love how she's caught in the place that she is now... But I understand how a character can get tiresome. Maybe she'll call for your attention eventually?

[Shienvien]

Uh. It'd be far from ideal solution, and I don't know whether we could ever truly play Thaler as, well, Thaler. It wouldn't simply be the same anymore. But if you are truly absolutely certain of it, then I guess we could NPC her... Since yeah, she is a *very* integral part of the group.

(Is everything okay, otherwise? Since your posts today have been rather shocking, to say the least...)

[cthulu]

I've been thinking of dropping Thaler since before the guildcrash, I even mentioned it once to Dj. I've been putting it off and putting it off and putting it off hoping things would get better and briefly they did but now I'm right back to wanting to do anything but post in this.

With an influx of new characters, all of which are no doubt (going by their race descriptions) going to be fighter types (as I didn't see any mention of magic in the descriptions up to the point I read) I think it really will be utterly pointless to play her. I can tell you now how the next few encounters will go. They'll get to Zerul, she'll try and hand herself in to the guards for the gold for the group because hey. She's a criminal and as Aemoten said people have probably hung for her. He'll somehow magically know what she's thinking and use guilt trips and or emotional black mail to stop her before resorting to just using physical force. At which point he'll have a go at her for what she attempted to do and she'll be babysat until they leave. Assuming no fights break out in Zerul (if they do Aemoten will try and do things peacefully, Jaelnec will look to Aemoten for 'orders' and Olan will be Olan. When peace doesn't work because it never bloody does a fight will break out where Jaelnec will spend a good portion of his time taking out one or two opponents while Aemoten seemingly effortlessly slaughters the other 10 or so, Thaler spends the entire scene figuring out what to do because she's not sure what she'll get yelled at for doing more.) they will leave the city and no doubt run into more trouble where Aemoten will try and find a peaceful solution, it won't work, a fight breaks out, Jaelnec spends the scene fighting off and besting two or three enemies and Aemoten kills the rest taking minor/severe wounds as necessary but, thanks to his god, being up and ready to go within a few minutes while Jaelnec still stumbles about from his own wounds. Thaler will hang back now too confused to figure out what she is supposed to be doing, what she's allowed to do and what she'll be yelled at for less. They'll bump onto new people, no doubt in a middle of a fight and lather, rinse repeat the above.

Now really, when all your character can do is what other people tell them to do otherwise YOU and your character are criticized for it, would you REALLY want to play them still? Now you're going to say about me assuming again but say they aren't say they're totally different from their race descriptions, or they're surprising, or they're outcasts and somehow they've traversed most of the world and ironically just ended up where our party is or is headed next. Let's pretend they have a purpose to serve other than smashing peoples heads in...I still have to play Thaler, as broken as she currently is, doing everything she's told to the letter because between Rilon and Aemoten (and Olan's near death experience) she's too fucking scared to do anything else because she now basically sees herself as the fuck up her grand father said she was. Her only use to be eventually to get Jaelnec to the level of knight and serve as a rather inane sort of mascot for the group.

That is NOT how I wrote her, I wrote her to be a cocky, hot headed, strong willed, sneak thief whose very job was not fighting but to get people in and out of tough spots WITHOUT fighting because she's a THIEF not a fighter. In her entire past life she'd killed less than 5 people I'd say, fought a dozen maybe and ran away from hundreds. In the IC week and a bit she's been with the group she's killed, fought and attacked many more people while trying to fit into the mold of the group she's joined while being pushed, pulled and torn into different directions. Yes, as a character she has 'grown' from that time where she had to decide whether or not to go help with the vampires and whether or not to jump out that tree and save Jaelnec from otherwise inevitable death but it's not been a GOOD growth. She's distorted, twisted and miserable, if Olan weren't watching she'd probably kill herself now and the only reason I haven't written herself doing so is because it's a lame way to end a character and I knew I'd get a lot of OOC backlash for it.

Look it from my point of view in an IC week she's gone from carefree, laughing, joking, happy and a bit mischievous. To downright miserable, terrified, angry and not even sure why, suicidal and utterly useless.

To answer your question I am fine, I've just been biting my tongue too long and decided I didn't want to anymore. I'm tired, I'm frustrated and I want to quit.

[Legion X51]

Dark Jack said
Don't worry about working out a detailed explanation for Thessaleia, a brief sentence or two about what kind of kingdom it is would suffice quite fine for the time being; with lands that far west the influence it has on the eastern lands is almost nonexistent, and the probability of the characters ever going there would not be very high (it could happen, though... in case of which you may have to explain in more detail later on, when it becomes relevant). If the alternative is that the Éireannach would raid the Xuhrl-njok repeatedly, eventually leading to their destruction, then inserting Thessaleia between the two would probably be a good solution (then it would the Thessaleia being raided by Xuhrl-njok, too, instead of the Éireannach).

Will do. I'll get something on the Kingdom of Thessaleia soon, if that's cool with you folks.

Dark Jack said
That's fine; humans and Nightwalkers are only compatible with one another, too, and no other races, so it would make sense for the Éireannach to have a similar relationship with them. How do these crossbreeds turn out, though? As Shien just pointed out there is a backlash when crossing Nightwalker and human blood that cause them to lose their eyesight, but how does Éireannach blood mix with human? Nightwalker?

Nightwalker crossbreeds might have the same issues with eyesight as they do with humans. Furthermore, I think that Nightwalker crossbreeds and human crossbreeds would both have skin issues - eczema, perhaps an increase in skin cancers, dermatitis, issues such as those. Also, there might be issues with the differing musculature of Éireannach and humans/Nightwalkers, mostly around the upper body joints - might be more susceptible to loose joints which would cause no end of sprains, torn muscles and possibly worse.

Dark Jack said
I know that, which is why I changed my approach as I wrote my thoughts on that bit (I should have deleted and rewritten that entire paragraph rather than leaving in my confusing train of thought as I went from one thought to another). My concern wasn't that it was unrealistic for them to maintain their population while being constantly at war - well it was at first, until I realized I was presuming too much just based on their lifespan - but that the growth of their population would be even more unsurstainable than that of humans. I know that there are numerous factors that limit population growth, but the fact that the Éireannach could sustain their population with continuous replacements for numbers lost in constant war would suggest that there aren't many of such natural limitations for them, and with individuals living as long as they do... well, if they did not take losses from war, I imagine they would very quickly find themselves fighting among themselves, stricken with pandemic illnesses and/or suffering from widespread famine. I'm not saying that it's unrealistic or that I object to it, I merely noted the fact that as I saw it, the Éireannach would not be able to sustain themselves as a people if there were no one for them to fight.

I'll think on things like population counts and birth rates and the like and discuss them with Shienvien and others.

[Shienvien]

cthulu said Aemoten seemingly effortlessly slaughters the other 10 or so

Aemoten has never taken upon more than a handful of opponents during an entire battle, excluding the time they were fighting goblins... And not once (excluding the goblins) has he successfully taken upon more than one at a time. It wouldn't be realistic, and I do not write in this manner. If you so desire, I may add up some numbers and give you his exact count for each encounter.
(For the record - he has also been healing Jaelnec, at the cost of his own long-term health, and has often been worse off after conflicts even after healing.)
He also knows Thaler is unwell and possibly suicidal, but he has no idea she would try to hand herself in. And *never* before the Rilon scene did someone as much as tell your character what to do, besides asking whether she would be fine with keeping watch or something.
I am aware there has been a lot of fighting, and all characters have suffered from it. Aemoten - atop of being simply incapable of the feats you mentioned - is also primarily a thinker, not brute force battler. I am metagaming a bit, but I predict Thaler would have her time. It is not *good* to have all fighters. I'onriyi is a mage, and Legion's character does not hold up in meleé combat all too well, either (to note non-meleé characters). Do we have anyone who can lockpick? No, we don't. Merc's character, maybe, but he isn't half as active as you are...

The last affair with the gods wrecked all characters, not just Thaler. She was happy on the evening before, was she not? Give her some time. I would be lying if I said a witty and enthusiastic Thaler isn't preferable to a quiet and depressed one.

EDIT: If we leave out the goblins (which most killed plenty of, and which I can't bother to sum up at the moment), Aemoten hasn't even made ten kills in total since I entered him to the RP... Seriously. I just counted. It was a bit surprising to me, too... I thought he would have somewhere between dozen and two dozen by now.

[Rhaevnn Xeno]

Also, who says that Thaler isn't sick of being pushed around or frustrated at the feeling of being manipulated (at least from theoretical view)? Who says that once in a place of her element (a city) and won'take all efforts to rid of herself of people she thinks potiential jailers? I mean, everyone has their breaking point - maybe upon arriving at the city, Thaler will just decide enough is enough.

I mean she's the Black Sun. Me thinks that she could did a possible will and the opportunity to flee once in a familiar setting. (I'm trying to be convincing, but only because I would hate to see such an interesting character disappear because its creator grew frustrated :c)

[Shienvien]

...My character would do all within his power to find her and postpone everything else indefinitely, though, should she simply disappear. And if he gets her word that she hates him and doesn't want anything to do with him again? Well, that is my characters out or the RP, more or less. Closed circle, pretty much. *shrugs*

[cthulu]

@Rhaevnn that's an awesome idea and I love someone thought of it without even seeing my character in action yet. :) It brings me (dare I say it) a little pride.
However after seeing Shien's comment I think you can understand why she can't just do that (despite any possible remaining desire to be free, she does hate feeling caged, its her worst fear) because basically 'it'll fuck up the RP'. By the looks of it I've got no choice but to stay or ruin the entire rp potentially for everyone. /Sarcasm Yay! /EndSarcasm.

[Rhaevnn Xeno]

Well, I mean, Morgan and Ixion are in Zerul right now... And seeing we don't know what DJ has in store, Thaler could break from one group and end with another. *shrug* I've only seen a little bit of the RP before the guildcrash, so I only have a small amount of how deep connections are between a characters, but if Shien's character insists in pursuing, it could lead to different connections. We don't know what's ahead but I have faith.

I would suggest hanging in there. No doubt, there will be a crossroad. As a GM of my own RP, I notice players always seem to get frustrated or get the feeling of being "stuck" right before something big of interesting happens :3 (and apologies did typos - doing this post from my phone)

EDIT:
@hymusia: Glad you feel some pride - it's well deserved for such a detailed CS. It painted the Black Sun perfectly.

EDIT2:
@Shien: would Ameoten really give up that easily if Thaler announced her hate for him? Would he give up on DJ's character's quest to become redeemed as well? (Unless I'm completely misreading this xD)

[Shienvien]

@Rhaevnn Xeno: It is more of an accumulation of things. It wasn't easy before, and the whole "Rilon-thing" finally completely tore him to pieces as far as the mind is concerned, just when things had finally started to improve (I wasn't joking when I said the Aemoten-posts through all that Rilon-thing felt physically nasty to write ... it is some specific kind of psychological suffering that simply doesn't sit well with the part of my brain that observes the scene I am envisioning and decides that I am actually seeing a suffering person). The woman whom he deeply and honestly loves being destroyed or simply stating that she hates him and this is it would indeed be too much at this point... The part of him that is the human man doesn't really function on an entirely rational level anymore. (And no, he didn't actually mistreat her in any way or form. I don't know where *that* interpretation is from... ) Of course, my IC influence is limited to what my characters know and do, so if Thaler was really determined then there'd be no way for me to indefinitely keep her from offing herself or similar. I have swapped characters before, and also simply killed plenty of them off myself, both in roleplay and writing. I'll survive outing Aemoten from the Prophecy, too.
- He is on the quest to end the Withering because it already took all that he had ... losing the one thing he dared hold the most dear again so soon after? What would one do in a situation like that? Continue on a quest that in a sense was a form of escapism to begin with and that he didn't ever expect to actually succeed in? What for? And if he couldn't even help the person he loved, then a bunch of followers? Really?

Uh... And our group is kind of destined to join up with Morgan and Ixion and I'on. It just has been delayed a bit, so Jack gave you guys something to do meanwhile... But who knows? Maybe Aemoten's group can be dragged into the mystery revolving around Blue and whoever killed her, and perhaps we'd even need a sneaky thief when we are at it.

(But let's move on from this topic and see what the RP brings, no? We're seriously scaring the newcomers here. :-P )

[Rhaevnn Xeno]

When you put it that way, I almost feel bad about asking hypothetical situations about Ameoten ._. Haha. I didn't realize Ameoten and Thaler were so entangled... It honesty makes me very excited to see what will happen next! (And now I wish I had actually taken an hour or two to read the RP before the guildcrash)

Also, I don't how I missed the fact that Morgan and Ixion would joining up with "the group." But as you said, we'll just have to see what is in store!

[cthulu]

@Shien He's been cruel, even if he/you don't realize it he has been. I'd go through and highlight the times for your records but I honestly don't want to trawl through that many posts. You should really look at what he says not the way he says stuff to Thaler to understand. Telling her because of her way of life she's basically caused people to die anyway and thats her fault and she should own it. Whether or not that's true doesn't matter it's not going to be something you want to hear even if you were emotionally stable at the time and she wasn't. One of just many examples of him bringing her down.

@Rhaevnn From mine/Thalers point of view they aren't. Sure they're friends/comrades there might even be feelings on both sides. But he confessed them to her while telling her she'd basically be considered evil if she didn't do what he said (Give up Black Thorn) so the point seemed rather moot. She's been more emotionally entangled in Etakar than Aemoten at this point XD.

[Shienvien]

...It goes a long way from "nothing good will ever come for the wielder of this thing, and it is impossible to hide it" to somehow implying Thaler herself is evil. He did - briefly, as in for about a paragraph - talk of the hidden consequences of taking without permission the previous night, but this was never meant to be more than just a passing thing, what with her becoming an apprentice of the Will and all, and there being so many ways for her to use her skills to help people instead - which he also spoke of -, and her and Jaelnec speaking further of his and her path to knights and perhaps eventually reinstating the Order of the Will. (A matter which somewhat interjected Aemoten, since he had actually intended to tell her about his feelings then. He did, though, in full conviction, manage to tell her that he would never, under no circumstances, give her up to the authorities or abandon her to some cruel fate, though.) Olan even managed to make them *all* laugh - even Aemoten, who had been rather grim for a while. And both Jaelnec and Aemoten had figured there might be something they could teach Thaler.
Honestly, if he was being cruel *then*, then no even slightly sterner talking should ever take place. He was mostly just asking her whether she could try not to do it again unless absolutely necessary, not much more than that. It was not a focus of the evening. She was described to be content before and actually *happy* later on, after said paragraph of talk. And they had a night ahead of them that would be spent sleeping in a proper bed rather than the softest available spot on the rain-soaked ground. And they figured they would be reaching Zerul without a hitch now.
Aemoten had no way in the Planes to be able to expect finding something like what he did the next morning. He is no oracle. If it weren't for all the demon lords deciding that nope, they cannot rest a night in peace and be happy for once, they'd be in an entirely different place now. Things *had* been getting better for them.

And I have quite clear recollections of her having obvious feelings for him, too, at least until all that Rilon fiasco and bloody mess... That *has* been a rather depressing section of the RP. As for him? Yeah, no doubt about what he feels.