Grim Odyssey (Grimgar x Etrian Odyssey)

[Inertia]

Hmm...I might just need to know how involved Dice Rolls are...the more and more I think about it, the less and less I like them.

Are they gonna determine if we hit something or another? Because if I'm behind something and it doesn't know I'm there and I attempt to cut it's head off, I better damn well cut its head off, I don't care what a Dice Roll says, and that's just one of my gripes with dice stuff.

Honestly, dice rolls take so much realism and fun out of things to me, but eh.

@Rune_Alchemist

Respectfully disagree, predetermined stuff just makes sure you never actually get hurt, hence reducing realism. Predetermined injuries as well, just make me go, 'eh', and again, removes me from the realism.

[Rune_Alchemist]

I never said anything about Predetermined stuff.

I hate predetermined stuff. I simply like that if my character is good at something, and should be able to do something realistically, I don't want a dice roll telling me I've suddenly failed in the worst way possible.

I simply like letting things play out as naturally as possible, using dice rolls is the exact opposite of that. It makes things to random and luck-reliant, and I dislike that very much. If my character is good enough to sneak easily by a group of soldiers, it just doesn't make sense for one of them to suddenly see my character because a dice roll said I suddenly fail.

Or if I set up a blow that someone shouldn't realistically be able to dodge - like say shooting them in the face at point blank range...how would someone realistically dodge that, even if a dice said they do? Does the gun suddenly not work, despite it being kept in probably excellent condition?

But eh, I'm rambling. I'll leave it at that, and if you guys are using dice then I'm just gonna be out probably.

Sorry Ash, I do like everything here, it's awesome and right up my alley, but I just can't handle the dice.

[Pacha]

I like the concept of RNG.

RNG shouldn't be involved with stuff like backstabbing a blind and deaf cripple, but with a lot of monster species, who knows? Maybe they could have chitin plating that we don't notice, so the sword just randomly breaks. Makes situations risker and generally more realistic since there's more uncertainty to everything that happens.

Or if I set up a blow that someone shouldn't realistically be able to dodge - like say shooting them in the face at point blank range...how would someone realistically dodge that, even if a dice said they do? Does the gun suddenly not work, despite it being kept in probably excellent condition?

@Rune_Alchemist

Gun misfires (whoops), a god/spirit blessed it with an invincible face but everything else is weak and floppy.

A lot of old flintlocks can randomly explode, or just not work if it gets moist. Flint can just break and refuse to not work. Gunpowder can get on your hands and ignite.

The way I see it, RNG just replaces a sadist, making it so we can randomly succeed.

[FujiwaraPhoenix]

Well, I'd argue for variance based upon GM discretion, but not full-on Hail Mary-level RNG. I think it'd be really stupid if, say, the entire party got crit to death in their first battle against low-ranking enemies. Of course, that's an extreme example, but I think that if there's going to be a level of RNG, it has to be scaled reasonably well to what's going on in the environment and not get to the point where it's just absurdity upon absurdity... Which, you know, with enough potential modifiers (so to speak), could very likely become possible.

I think that'd likely be the best possible compromise; I mean, obviously it's interesting if you throw a wrench in someone's plans, because let's be real here, things NEVER go according to plan. At the same time, though... I think there's a certain line that you just have to not cross, or else everything just comes tumbling down.

[Rune_Alchemist]

Monster species aren't any different from any other opponent. It can have all the chitin plating and what things it wants, but if my character is an assassin with probably fairly good eyesight and awareness, then that isn't exactly going to be a problem. Just stab a weak point in the armor...or, or don't even try it, and just slip past.

I'll just have to disagree, to be honest. Maybe it's just because I don't really believe in things like Luck, and prefer things to be based purely on skill more or less. Some level of luck is needed for a good story, but it should be little things.

If you want to throw a wrench into someone plans, then there are tons of better ways to do it than some silly concept known as 'luck'. I'll wait for Ash's reply and more detail about it...but eh, I'm not getting my hopes up.

[Inertia]

I respect your opinion but the cases are kinda extreme, in that, if it's point blank, then obviously dice won't be used. It's just there so that the characters can experience failure and such. It's just the dice that's adding a random element when stuff happens, like let's say a character learns a new move but has no experience in using it, meaning that the chances of landing that skill shouldn't be a 100%, and say he has a 1/6 chance of landing it, the dice can be used in a way to determine if it misses or not.

Also I agree with @Pacha's points the most.

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Lmfao @Pacha your sigs are genius. Dankest memes friend.

[Rune_Alchemist]

Okay, I get that.

But why the dice? If the character is obviously unskilled in using a certain skill, then the writer should take that into account in his post and determine whether or not he is skilled enough to use it in it's fullest potential. Likewise, the other party should take that into his characters reaction. Obviously if a novice swordsman is going up against someone better than him, he's likely gonna lose unless the more skilled swordsman slips up in some way.

But we don't need dice to tell us that, do we?

The way I see it, RNG just replaces a sadist, making it so we can randomly succeed.

@Pacha

I see it as the exact opposite, to be honest. RNG makes it so that you just randomly fail things you would otherwise succeed at. Which is bullshit, if your character is supposed to be good at something. There's always a reason for failure, and some mysterious force known as 'luck' shouldn't determine that.

...I should stop now, this isn't getting anyone anywhere. Eh, off to bed with me.

[FujiwaraPhoenix]

I mean... Yeah, I agree that skill should be EXPONENTIALLY more important than luck, but sometimes those little bits and pieces add up. "Luck" is just a concept, anyhow; in theory, a group that is absurdly well-prepared and geared to fight should have no trouble with the enemy they're planning to face off against. It's just that they may overlook something that they did not anticipate in being a factor may end up occurring and blame it on bad luck, when in reality that isn't the case.

Though I think we can agree that if dice ARE used, the outliers should be eliminated on the spot unless it fits the narrative better (which should probably be at our GM's discretion). I'm not sure how you'd translate these minute changes over rolls, though, since in situations where luck becomes pivotal a minor slip-up might not change much in the long run... Especially in cases where the RPer is playing a character that might not have the necessary skill to capitalize.

In this regard, I see the dice as a way to tip the scales between equal opponents one way or the other, or a way to give that little hope spot to a group in dire need of aid. It shouldn't be used to indiscriminately make everyone's lives miserable (tbh, they'll probably do that to each other instead), but rather just be used sparingly and only when the situation calls for it. Once the characters have enough experience killing, say, slimes, there shouldn't be a need to roll for those fights because they've learned their opponents in and out and can thus act accordingly.

[Ashifili]

Lots of chatter indeed.

First off, let's address the issue with
>my character is good at sneaking, why can't he sneak past guards?
RNG here determines whether or not the terrain is actually good for sneaking, and whether or not these guards are the mooks that you think they are. Think you're tough shit? Oh noes, the guard captain was amongst the mooks, and he knows something is up.

>my character is going to backstab someone and they have no idea I'm there, so I'll totally hit!
If the monster fails to detect you when you spring from the shadows, you will definitely hit it...though whether or not that hit will do damage is also a question. Scales and tough hide and armor is a thing, but so is completely different bone structures and organ placements. Or, you know, your stubby little kitchen knife just can't cut deeply to OHKO.

>my character is going to shoot a motherfucker in the face with a gun!
Firearms aren't perfect. There's always a chance of misfire. The reason people still use firearms is because these still pack a big ass punch. Also, a Gunner shouldn't really be in point-blank range of anything. Alternatively, there's something called aim dodging. You've seen those gun kata shenanigans? That's why there's people who actually go melee modu: a line is harder to dodge than a point.

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Now, here's the hammer.

This was never a realistic RP. The anime/manga tag should have clued that in. If this was realistic, everyone would be picking up long range weapons, specialize in sneaking around, and running off if they can't take down a big monster.

Modifiers do exist, and are what will give you the edge you need to add some degree of consistency to your rolls.

There are no low-leveled monsters. These monsters are things that HEROES are meant to slay. You are all just adventurers.

Wounds will actually matter. If you get stabbed in the arm, that arm isn't going to be usable. Shit like that.

In the spirit of the hunt, however, rolls that detail whether or not you hit will only be done in the heat of battle. So if you are sniping from a distance and are unseen, or if you are popping up behind them in an ambush, yah, that's an auto hit.

And if some people are REALLY against dice rolls, I'm willing to set it for those people so that you don't have to roll. Instead, it's assumed that you always roll half the value of the dice you're rolling, before adding your modifiers. Gives you the consistency you want, but also seals your ability to pull off some really amazing stunts via rolling the maximum value.

Basically, this is a good example of how shit may or may not be like.



I'll probably set something up so that you progressively get shittier at doing things the more wounds you accumulate.

[Zombehs]

I'll probably set something up so that you progressively get shittier at doing things the more wounds you accumulate.

0:40. Someone didn't take the Precise Shot.

[Rune_Alchemist]

yeah see, I have no problems with wounds and things like that in the above post. I dislike super realism in an RP. I love anime fights with giant explosions and wounds actually mattering.

I just don't see the need for dice telling me I fail at something and determining my own characters actions. That might actually be my main beef here. I don't like people telling me how to play my character and what happened to my character.

Why can't we all just, I don't know, collaborate because we are all reasonable people and use our heads to make a good story, here?

but whatevs, I'm out then.

You guys have fun.

[Ashifili]

yeah see, I have no problems with wounds and things like that in the above post. I dislike super realism in an RP. I love anime fights with giant explosions and wounds actually mattering.

I just don't see the need for dice telling me I fail at something. Why can't we all just, I don't know, collaborate because we are all reasonable people and use our heads to make a good story, here?

But that's fine, I'm out then.

You guys have fun.

@Rune_Alchemist

And if some people are REALLY against dice rolls, I'm willing to set it for those people so that you don't have to roll. Instead, it's assumed that you always roll half the value of the dice you're rolling, before adding your modifiers. Gives you the consistency you want, but also seals your ability to pull off some really amazing stunts via rolling the maximum value.

If you're still against that though, yeah, see ya.

[FujiwaraPhoenix]

Don't you just love how the thumbnail for that first video is Haruhito in complete terror and pain? :D
Sadism jokes aside... Yeah, I could see that being a reasonable compromise overall. Let people from both ends of the spectrum be satisfied and gives some overall consistency to those who want it. I like it.

For that last bit... Just add a negative modified based on the severity of wounds, I guess?

That begs another question, though: to what degree will wounds be curable, and will players be able to "retire" characters if they're wounded to the point where they're alive and kicking, but not combat-worthy anymore?

[Rune_Alchemist]

<Snipped quote by Rune_Alchemist>

<Snipped quote>

If you're still against that though, yeah, see ya.

@Ashifili

Yeah, sorry Ash.

This stuff is all good and I love it, but I just can't do dice like this. Even with what you suggested, it just doesn't sit well with me.

[Ashifili]

@PKMNB0Y
There's probably some War Magus hanging around, willing to heal up broken bones and such for a price, so it's not like it takes forever to recover from injuries.

Basically, magic can nope a lot of issues if you have time. The main problem is that using magic in a short period of time is going to exhaust your reserves fairly quickly, which is why these broken bones and cut arteries in a singular battle ARE going to matter.

You can totally have them retire if you think that they would decide the rigors of monster-slaying is too much for them, and that they'd rather become a shoemaker in Hexxenacht.

[FujiwaraPhoenix]

Hm. Alright, I think that's fair, then. Wasn't sure to what extent magic could heal stuff; was thinking there was a threshold at which point a character would straight up be unable to fight even after healing, but it's interesting that there isn't one. as far as I can tell.

Well, today I learned that dice causes controversy. Who knew?

I'll start brainstorming ideas, but I think I may hold off on putting someone forward until I see another form or two roll in.
>has a habit of filling party niches

[Skyswimsky]

Personally I currently plan to go for something healer-ish.

[Inertia]

Still iffy about the 'Personal Abilities' section, but here's what a garbled up.
Do tell if there's something wrong, which there probably is.

Rain

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Name: Rain Llynn Stryelm
Gender: Male
Biometrics: 5 feet 9 inches, 157 lbs.

Goals:

Rain had become an adventurer simply because of knowledge, and elimination of the unknown. He carries and writes a journal that records intricate details of a monster, like average heigh/weight, known, rough illustration, description, strengths and weaknesses etc. Rain is especially adamant about finishing the book and sending his knowledge to the common population so that the knowledge becomes, well, commonplace. He doesn't want anyone to relive the same night he's had to go through.

Ideals:

Rain sincerely believes in a peaceful world, one where people don't have to constantly look over their shoulders and fear the unknown attacking them. He believes that people should have the knowledge to fight back and defend themselves against monsters.

Rain also strives to train arduously to reach his own potential, believing that talent can only go so far. However Rain is still slightly inexperienced and naive, and as such will need a bit more events to reach his full potential.

Bonds:

Like majority of adventurers, he was raised in Hexxenacht. He was in particular extremely close to his parents, who tenderly raised him. However during an unfortunate attack from unknown monsters they perished at the cost of Rain's own life. From then on Rain has tried to be aloof and distant from others.

Personality:

*Observant
*Altruistic
*Humble
*Blunt
*Distant

Quirks:

Rain unconsciously fixes the hem of his robes whenever they come loose and disheveled. He also tends to tap on any solid surfaces, even his bo-staff, when in deep thought.

Class: War Magus
Class Ability: Heal

Personal Abilities:

Mind's Eye:
His right eye glow an unnatural blue as the stats of monsters pop up in his vision, however higher levelled monsters will appear as '???' instead of numbers. His left eye has to be closed during the duration of the ability and as such limits his field of vision, particularly from the left.

This is the skill that allows Rain to have intricate details that he mentally notes down at the moment to jot down later in his journal.

Empower:
He whispers a short chant that gives his bo-staff a slight damage boost lighting it on fire, it also reinforces the weapon.

Stun:
With a peculiar slash, the enemy is momentarily stunned.

Theme Song: Because it's always a thing, obviously.

[Ashifili]

Hm. Alright, I think that's fair, then. Wasn't sure to what extent magic could heal stuff; was thinking there was a threshold at which point a character would straight up be unable to fight even after healing, but it's interesting that there isn't one. as far as I can tell.

Well, today I learned that dice causes controversy. Who knew?

@PKMNB0Y

Healing doesn't recover blood loss. Blood loss leads to shitty times. Also a Grimgar thing that I liked.

And yeah, I guess some people like to have complete control. Personally, I just don't want to spend a bunch of hours trying to explain to people why they can't do something, when I can just have them roll some dice and say 'yeah, see? you can't do that'. Makes my life more stress-free, and I don't have to put my trust in the integrity of strangers~

@Inertia
>It's a flesh wound you'll live
>grammar nazi intensifies

Monsters generally don't make it past the walls of Hexxenacht unless someone really fucked up. If his parents were adventurers though, I suppose that would work. Something like them going out with Rain and then getting jumped by a bunch of Special Ops Gobs.

Mind's Eye will probably not show stats straight away. Instead, it'll show stats relative to Rain's own stats (e.g whether it's stronger than him). After enough fights with that particular species, he'll be able to get a sense of the general stat-ranges of the monsters too. Just not right away. Might have it act as precognition at times as well. I never liked Analysis Scopes or the Observe ability.

Isn't the bo staff a bludgeoning weapon? How do you cut with that?

[Inertia]

@Ashifili

Haha sorry the site I made that on didn't allow for commas and such. Also as for the bo-staff, uhh, thought my character could have War Edge Mastery but if thats too high level I suppose I can change his weapon.

I'm fine with the anything changed to the mind's eye, skill's very iffy.