[OOC] D&D 5e - Hoard of the Dragon Queen

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

It is unfortunate to hear that situation has played out, @Gordian Nought. While it probably means little from someone you do not know well and from the internet where words likewise hold little value regularly, you still have my condolences.

[Gordian Nought]

Thank you, @The Harbinger of Ferocity. That actually means a lot.

She is now in a place where there is no sighing, sickness, or sadness. We will know her true joy once we enter that same sweet paradise. May her memory be eternal.

[Lucius Cypher]

Hmm. Now do we wait for Hekazu or shall I post yet another flash back? Decisions decisions...

[Hekazu]

Hmm. Now do we wait for Hekazu or shall I post yet another flash back? Decisions decisions...

@Lucius Cypher

In the current situation I do not see much to comment on. Governor needs some time to observe the situation before he shares his plan for the next step.

Although I guess I should mention, now that I've noticed, that not all the soldiers that got a taste of the breath weapon are dead. Some may be missing limbs, but have the wound cauterized shut by the sheer destructive force of the breath or alternatively some were merely grazed and now have their hair standing on end and such, but mostly survived with the scare of their lifetime.

[Hekazu]

@Gordian Nought
I am sorry for your loss. I lost my grandfather last summer and his funeral happened just a day before my wedding. We even had the same priest for both. Life goes on, as they say. At least in death none have to suffer.

[Gordian Nought]

Thank you, @Hekazu. I am also sorry to hear of your loss of last summer, interposed before such a joyous occasion.

C'est vrai. C'est la vie. In our memories, their flowers do not wither even when we will all meet our Gardener, face to face.

On a much happier note, flashbacks are always fun! I look forward to your next one, Orchid. :)

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

@Lucius Cypher, I would say feel free to. There's no time like the present to elaborate on characters and their motives. I certainly am acting on that opportunity.

[Lucius Cypher]

Hnn. I'll post tomorrow if I can.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

Something that occurred to me that as of yet still has gone unmentioned, but I would like to now that I too remembered it existed, is Inspiration. Although it is not something the players can award unless we already have it, I would like to pose that Orchid would be reasonably deserving of it. @Hekazu, what say you?

[Hekazu]

@The Harbinger of Ferocity
There is a reason why it has not come up yet, that being that I had thought not to include it in our game. Sure, Inspiration is a fine addition to the ruleset and I use it in my in-person games, but here in the forum medium I believe it might lead to more elaborate writers receiving it more easily, thus lending itself to favoritism which I would like to avoid.

I see how Orchid would be deserving, given the "never give up" attitude with the dragon and the sheer determination to slay it, but since I would not like to use the rule, I'll have to say no.

[Lucius Cypher]

On one hand I can understand not implementing it, as a GM should always remain neutral in the affair of his players. Rewarding them for courage and bravery is one thing, but trying to determine what qualifies such things or others, such as good writing/roleplaying or problem solving, can be something of a crapshoot.

On the other hand I also believe that some things, even if not successful, could be rewarded with inspiration. whether it's Orchid's stunt, or Parum rallying others, Brannor landing a critical shot, Kyra stealing someone from the grasp of death, or Travor shielding everyone from certain doom. While all these things are subjectively "awesome@ an "heroic", it would still be nice to have some sort of consolation for going above and beyond what is necessary for our characters to do to survive and fulfill our objective.

Tl;dr I'd like to implement the Inspiration mechanic.

[Ryonara]

I like having Inspiration myself. It rewards players for going out of their way to put more effort into their writing then usual. Of course it can be subjective and some people might try to do stupid or suicidal things just to get Inspiration. Though to be fair last game I played, you can get multiple counts of Inspiration, but you can only use them in that session. And we don't really have sessions for a play-by-post rpg.

[Norschtalen]

Inspiration never really came up often in my group. When we first started my GM did give us some inspiration after boss fights, but afterwards we generally did well enough that we didn't need them. That being said because we don't have get inspiration I did sometimes forget I had them and never used them, but the one time I really needed a reroll, I remembered about it and it saved my life. So inspiration can certainly be helpful, but I don't think we really need it. If we play smart we don't need them, but I do feel like they would be a nice little reward after particularly difficult moments.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

On the other hand I also believe that some things, even if not successful, could be rewarded with inspiration. whether it's Orchid's stunt, or Parum rallying others, Brannor landing a critical shot, Kyra stealing someone from the grasp of death, or Travor shielding everyone from certain doom. While all these things are subjectively "awesome@ an "heroic", it would still be nice to have some sort of consolation for going above and beyond what is necessary for our characters to do to survive and fulfill our objective.

@Lucius Cypher

This was primarily the reason I was talking about it, not so much "good writing versus exceptional writing", but more that players are willing to put their characters on the line to play out their story. That ability to go above and beyond to play out what they would do rather than should do in many cases because the goal is to make them not characters, but relatable people.

Inspiration all too often is used as a coveted currency because it has the power of advantage, but I would like to think we are all mature enough as roleplayers to know we probably should pass it off to another player or that we should use it so we are not tying it up so to speak. While difficult in a forum setting, I think this environment actually offers a better spotlight for it because we can read and see exactly where the character is going with this; is it in line with their motivation, personality, objectives, desires, faith and so forth? The other reason I brought this up is because we are not receiving experience gain, there feels like minimal character progression mechanically is occurring; Inspiration costs nothing but feels like the character in question really went to the limit.

While I understand your rationale, I had to pose this first, @Hekazu.

[Norschtalen]

While I mostly agree with you @The Harbinger of Ferocity, and I really do think everyone here has been very mature so far (I was a bit afraid that Lucius was actually going to throw a fit if he doesn't get to kill the dragon but he handled that gracefully), I can understand why inspiration shouldn't be used. In my last group we had something of a gloryhound who always went out of his way to do "crazy stunts" even if we had a good plan already. And most of his stunts were just needlessly complicated and too reliant on all of us supporting or saving him afterwards.

I'm not saying that what Orchid did was bad or what Lucius wrote wasn't good. But I do think that he was taking a very big risk, and it was a good thing that Kyra was there to patch him up. That sort of thing is awesome, sure, but I don't want to always have to do that. I understand that the group is still very new and hasn't exactly gotten around to coordinating as a team, but I also don't want to promote the idea that trying to take a risk at the expense of your wellbeing would reward you. There's taking a gamble and just risking your life. Orchid risked his life to scale that dragon even though I'm pretty sure none of us could kill it together, let alone him doing it by himself. A gamble would have been something like us rallying the soldiers on the wall to focus fire on the dragon while also making sure they take cover or are protected by the dragon's breath, since that would be somewhat difficult for us to do, but more effective than just trying to stab at it.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

I am not suggesting all of our characters have to do that or should do that, @Norschtalen. Inspiration should be awarded for acting out character flaws, bonds, traits or plot elements even at risk to themselves, for better or worse. Those does not mean another character should not have been awarded it if they handled a situation brilliantly in character or in the most charming, charismatic fashion.

The example case is that based upon what we have known about Orchid, his character, what he does what he does and why, he is a qualifier for it and that is why I suggested it. None of the other characters would have or should have attempted that and it was unclear what the intention was for us to do with the dragon short of fight it, presumably to the death. Thus far while the dragon hasn't come back, I sincerely doubt this is the last time we will see it; it already is none too fond of Parum, which is an interesting plot element for the future for her to act on and even better she's aware of it.

Inspiration is not a contest, especially one where we have to blow for blow meet everyone else, but an incentive for playing a character out completely. In a way, mind you this is how I perceive it, @Lucius Cypher now has to either top his own effort previously and make it again totally reasonable in character and not just for the sake of Inspiration or now play out a completely different element of Orchid in order to try to gain Inspiration.

And that is exactly how it should be, as by the time he is likely to do so in such a hypothetical environment, at least one other person should have carried out a major element of their character.

[Lucius Cypher]

I get what you're saying Norschy, and to be fair I knew it wasn't a smart idea either. Even Orchid would know, before his rage, that his plan was suicidal and there's probably better things to do. However as Harbinger said, inspiration shouldn't just be given based on good writing per say, but rather showing off good character. To me, inspiration should be given when our characters do something heroic, something that your "common man with common sense" wouldn't do. I'm not saying that inspiration should be rewarded for doing insane stunts or taking risks, but like what you said about getting inspiration after boss fights, it could be used to reward those who stepped up to the challenge.

I think we all knew that as soon as Hekazu described the dragon as an adult blue dragon, we were never meant to actually defeat him, and we may not have been guaranteed to survive either. While each of us may have some IC reason to fight for Greenest, even the most valiant of us would know that we don't stand a chance. I don't know the stats for a dragon but I'm sure his AC is way higher than Orchid's, he has way more health, and even his weakest attack would at least put him to zero if not kill him outright. There was no way we could kill this dragon without heavy weapons, high level characters, or some sort of plot coupon. The smarter and more useful thing for our characters to have done would be fighting the kobolds and raiders around the fortress, maybe dodging the dragon's breath when it came near.

That would be the smart thing to do. But it wouldn't be heroic, and I feel that's something that a lot of fantasy games tend to downplay. I get that things aren't always going to be bright and cheery. Personally, I don't even think we can save Greenest. But that doesn't mean we should do the "Logical" thing and try to run away, even if we can bring most of the townfolks with us. The odds are not in our favor and I can't imagine any methods on hand we can use to repel the dragon or take out his minions. But that doesn't mean we still can't take a stand and cut down as many as we can, and show the dragon that even with his power and his numbers, we will still stand up against him. That's being a hero, that's having strength, to be brave. It's easy to have courage when you have an experienced knight or guardian at your back, or when you're part of a large, organized army fighting an unknown force. But we know who our enemies are and we know what's at stake. It's not looking good for us and smarter people have already left. So now we have to be the ones to make the difficult choice: do we save our own skins, or should we save everyone else, even if we could fail?

Making touch choices like that is what inspiration is for. In-Character, inspiration is like a reminder to your character that they've already made a tough choice or did something amazing. When your character is feeling small and alone, facing against a foe he or she couldn't hope to face, inspiration reminds them that once upon a time, they did face that problem before. It's merely taken on a new form to challenge you again. Sometimes the dice isn't in your favor, and occasionally your enemy really is stronger than you. But until the day you die, every challenge you survived, every opponent you defeated, it's another reminder that you have strength, and if you can find it within yourself, you can do it again.

Sorry for the rant. I feel like this is something Orchid would say if people question him about what he was doing, and if he had a better grasp of Common.

[Norschtalen]

You two bring up some good points and I honestly don't have much of an argument to dispute them. But what I am worried about is that Hekazu would have to make the call to give inspiration to others or not. Acting our your character and developing them is a great reward, but as long as we're adventuring I think that might happen a lot. Right now I can see plenty of ways our characters could have a big revelation or do something that both makes sense IC, as well as show how much they've improved in both the short and long term. But I also don't want to put any more pressure on our GM to judge our characters for their actions either. Like dealing with a paladin who may have done something that could cause him to Fall, it's a very subjective case that really can only be considered in relation to your character, which makes judging all the more difficult. A fighter can get away with stealing a sword to fight a greater evil, but a paladin can't do that and must make due with what he has.

If I can be honest, I'm not surprised that Orchid did what he did, I just know it wasn't a good idea in practice. In character that makes sense, and I'm honestly surprised he made it as far as he did. It also does show a lot about his character: he's not a loud-mouth barbarian who talks big and can only fight enemies smaller than himself, but he's willing to take on enemies who outclass him simply on principle. For him, this makes sense for his character. But let's say someone else tried to do what he did. Let's say Parum was the one who chose to face the dragon. Now hear me out: Yes Parum was scared of the dragon in the first round, and she didn't really move from her spot since it showed up. All she was able to do was cast a few spells, granted very helpful spells. But she also mouthed off at the dragon and even tried to give everyone else hope when things seemed hopeless. Without her help Orchid may have not been able to make that climb onto the dragon in the first place.

And while it's in character for Orchid to be courageous and take on difficult challenges, for Parum she was able to muster up some bravery herself to stay and fight. Sure she wasn't able to do much, but none of us were. Yet despite lacking Orchid's confidence, she still faced her fear and took on the dragon instead of running away. If Orchid could get inspiration for acting as bravely as he did, what about Parum? Being brave is not the same as being fearless, because Parum had to overcome her fears of the dragon to face it. It's this sort of questions that I know might be hard for Hekazu, because it's certainly hard for me too. I don't want to seem harsh and say Orchid gets inspiration because he's the only one who risked his life, because to me that feels like I'm punishing the others for being scared. Alternatively, I also don't want to punish Orchid if later Parum is able to convince the mayor or some other powerful authority figure to give them a favor or clear them of guilt. Even if Orchid does something fairly impressive despite his low charisma and intelligence, like give a convincing defense for his case or point out a flaw in the opposing argument.

The trouble I foresee is trying to measure out these things like skill, bravery, or intelligence relative to our characters. Who should be rewarded for bravery above and beyond their station, the skilled warrior or the cowardly commoner? Who should be rewarded for their cunning wit, the intelligent scholar or the folksy peasant? Trying to weigh one or another can be difficult work, and trying to reward everyone only diminishes it's value.

[Ryonara]

I'm feeling a bit drained tonight so I apologize if there's some spelling errors in my post.

As for this inspiration debate I'm on the side of "We don't need it" because like Norschtalen and Hezaku is saying, I'd rather not have to be the judge of our character's actions. Like right now I think Parum is doing exactly the opposite of what sort of heroic thing you'd expect to get inspiration, but it is within her character. She's cowardly and naive. She doesn't want to face this dragon nor does she want to die, and she can't handle this level of mayhem right off the bat. She's basically a college girl who just left to see the world beyond the books and computer screen, and she can smell the blood and gore, see the death and destruction, and it's nothing like what she learned at all. It's so much worse.

[Hekazu]

Thought I'd contribute some. In any case, Nighthill will be meeting up with you soon. Say, a post from @Norschtalen and/or @Gordian Nought should trigger the next event.