[OOC] The War of the Three

[KoL]

By the way, I just thought of the perfect make up gift from Juno to Henry. A DS with Pokemon Moon on it, so that he can use his greed in a better way, while trying to Catch'em All.

Now, I wonder if the third game of that generation will be called Pokemon Eclipse, it would only make sense given what you have when you join Sun and Moon.

[TheWendil]

@KoL

There's rumors that it'll be called Pokemon Stars.

Also do that, and I'll throttle Juno.

[KoL]

@KoL

There's rumors that it'll be called Pokemon Stars.

@TheWindel

Oh, shiny! Also would make sense as well.

@KoL

Also do that, and I'll throttle Juno.

@TheWindel

Juno: "Try me, hmph!" Does it anyway.

[TheWendil]

Juno: "Try me, hmph!" Does it anyway.

@KoL

ಠ_ಠ

[KoL]

<Snipped quote by KoL>

ಠ_ಠ

@TheWindel

Don't lie to yourself. You love it when she's a cutish rebel.

[Flood]

Yeah, Henry's out. He can definitely recognize when he's outgunned, and he is super outgunned right now. He'll take Miyu, but otherwise he's probably about to run like a little bitch.

By the way, I just thought of the perfect make up gift from Juno to Henry. A DS with Pokemon Moon on it, so that he can use his greed in a better way, while trying to Catch'em All.

Now, I wonder if the third game of that generation will be called Pokemon Eclipse, it would only make sense given what you have when you join Sun and Moon.

@KoL

Henry already has Sun and is disappointed by the lack of a National Dex.

[Lucius Cypher]

@floodtalon

No no, stay and fight! I wanna see how this turns out. Gotta at least trade some barbs first.

[The 42nd Gecko]

@TheWindel@KoL *Name Kerflufle.
Yes, KoL has it exactly, I meant KoL.

@floodtalon Alright, are you ready for some Fermi estimation? Cause buckle up.

Let's say Miyu's mech weighs 1/2 as much as an M1 Abrams. They're both heavily armored fighty vehicles. The Daimyo is 16 ft tall to the 8 ft tall M1 Abrams, but an M1 Abrams is 26 feet long to the Daimyo's probably 4-5. That puts the Daimyo at 30,000 kilograms.

Let's say the Daimyo jumps off a two story building, and lands sword point down on Henry. This is an unlikely scenario, but it's about how high the Daimyo could pull off a superhero landing from without damage, making it a good measure of the total power the musculature can withstand and put out under optimal scenarios, if everything lined up absolutely perfectly. A quick bit of math reveals that Miyu would deal about 180,000 Newtons a second from this impact, (30,000 kg * 6 m/s). And let's say her super sword provides about a 10x multiplier to that effective force.

So, 1,800,000 Newtons of effective force.

Let's round up, and call 2,000,000 Newtons one "Miyu Unit". Also you should note that I have rounded up on everything glossed over in the "quick bit of math." We are being generous. Now, from now on, I'll start rounding down to find a minimum of Juno's power.

Let's consider how hard Juno hits. Well, we do know that she decelerated without any difficulty the Daimyo Super version from full speed to zero so fast it seemed instant. We'll call .1 of a second an instant, as we've got people with hyper reaction speeds. Some quick math and an assumption about it's full speed (let's say 100 mph, which is rather slow on this battlefield full of speedsters so fast they leave after images), that's about 132,000,000 (30,000 kg * 44 m/s * 100 to go from momentum to force) Newtons a second. Or, 66 Miyu units.

Uh oh. A situation in which Juno wasn't even trying, and she didn't even consider her attack a direct attack, and was surprised the mech came apart, is 66 times Miyu's maximum damage output.

But this was not Juno's power when she's being serious. When she attacked Miyu directly, her strike was said to have the power of a small nuke? How much power is that? The smallest nuke we know of is W54, a tactical type. The only type that was generally consistently successful? Six kilotons. How much is six kilotons? 24 Terajoules. Terajoules. Say that to yourself. Terajoules. 24,000,000,000. Now, joules and newtons are not the same. So, let's transform Miyu's earlier newton's into joules by finding what her kinetic energy was (.5 * 30,000 kg * 6^2 m/s). We get 5,400,000 joules after we apply the x10 from the sword. We'll round up to 6,000,000, with our general being generous for Miyu and stingy for Juno. 24,000,000,000 is 4000 Miyu units.

But wait! You survived an attack from Juno after she transformed into Jorm! Let's put another x10 on that, because her speed went from "fast enough you can still dodge if you're at least partly speed type" to "fast enough it looks like teleportation".

That puts the strength of one of Jorm's attacks at 40,000 Miyu units.

Unless Miyu increased her strength by at least four orders of magnitude, she's not going to even start hurting you.

[TheWendil]

When did we start using DBZ power scaling?

_{Don't you dare answer that.}

[The 42nd Gecko]

@TheWindel Since Juno showed up and people tried to keep up.

[KoL]

@The 42nd Gecko

Well, that's a big bunch of numbers, and as far as the abridged version of Newtonian Mechanics go, you can say that. I just want to say it's not really the true numbers you'd use on college level (read:true) Physics class. Let me see if I can make some sense of it all.

1º Force (Newtons) is: Mass (kg) x Acceleration (m/s²), thus the force behind the jump would be of: 30.000 kg x 9,81 m/s² (gravity's acceleration when close to Earth's surface) = 294.300 N.

2º You mistook Pressure (Force/Area), with pure Force. Let's consider the tip of that sword as having a very small area, making it really sharp (for mecha standards), so 1mm radius, to an area of 3,14x10^-6m², divide the previous force for that and you have= 9,37x10^10 Pascal, or 93,7 Gigapascal or 924,8 atm (approximately the pressure of a 94m deep dive in the sea).

3º That one is a lot more complicated. If you decelerate a 44m/s object to 0m/s in a time that tends to zero (can't use Calculus w/o a function, so lets assume 01 milisecond for the time), you would get: 44.000m/s² negative acceleration x 30.000 kg = 1,32x10^9, or 1,32 GN. Which is far less than your estimate, but close to 4.500 times the force the mech can generate from gravity alone. I'll not add pressure for this, since it would vary wildly based on the area of contact between the mech and whatever was hit by it.

4º Now, I'll jump directly for the main issue, energy liberation. Which on the previous case would be of 29x10^6 Joules. For the kick, it would be hard since I can't be sure of Juno's speed, since Juno weights around 60 kg only, if she moved at say mach 5 (really freaking fast) for around 1.500m/s, it would be: 67,5x10^6J, or 67,5GJ, far less than a nuke. But the pressure would be tremendous.

A direct hit from Juno is not a waste of energy, like an explosion (which damages you via pressure), it's force applied with precision to generate the maximum damage. It's hard to compare those scales, anyways, that's a better application of actual Physics.

[Lucius Cypher]

Still, it'd speak much of Henry's durability if he survived any of that math and still have enough energy to prance.

[Mega Birb]

By the way, I just thought of the perfect make up gift from Juno to Henry. A DS with Pokemon Moon on it, so that he can use his greed in a better way, while trying to Catch'em All.

Now, I wonder if the third game of that generation will be called Pokemon Eclipse, it would only make sense given what you have when you join Sun and Moon.

@KoL

Do that and we have to go edgier than this thing.


@TheWindel I swear to God if you pull up the Coldsteel video again.

[TheWendil]

Still, it'd speak much of Henry's durability if he survived any of that math and still have enough energy to prance.

@Lucius Cypher

That's not durability. That's his Silver Eyes.

[KoL]

Still, it'd speak much of Henry's durability if he survived any of that math and still have enough energy to prance.

@Lucius Cypher

I don't doubt that. The force behind Juno's kick was probably worse than taking an AP shell from the Yamato's main gun (i.e.: the biggest gun ever made) to the face.

Still it's nothing compared to Dragon Ball's levels of absurdity, since they can move at speeds faster than teleportation there, for short range movement, at least.

[TheWendil]

@TheWindel I swear to God if you pull up the Coldsteel video again.

@Mega Birb

[KoL]

<Snipped quote by Mega Birb>

@TheWindel

I swear, I've seen this video so many times that Bread Jester's words are ingrained on my soul already.

[Mega Birb]

<Snipped quote by TheWindel>

I swear, I've seen this video so many times that Bread Jester's words are ingrained on my soul already.

@KoL

I also hit the post button too quickly, still need to put up a part for Marquis.

[Gardevoiran]

I take a break from reading the OOC of this and what do I come back to find?

A shit load of math.

If any of you guys want to get into Sun and Moon competitive battling and have no idea where to start, let me know. I've been around the ropes for a while and I'm willing to share my shitty knowledge.

[The 42nd Gecko]

@KoL I was using Fermi estimation to get ideas of the scales of the different forces in comparison to each other. I made a lot of errors because Fermi estimation is basically "don't sweat the details." So, let's begin the true math off, and begin our physics contest in earnest.

1. You're right, I goofed in the first part, mistook momentum and force there for a bit, and made another error noted below. The number I actually wanted was actually a little higher than your result, which would be 30,000 kg * 9.9 m/s (which is what the velocity would be after 7 meter jump, I accidentally used average velocity instead of velocity). Made a difference of a factor of about x2, which is within Fermi estimation error range. However, it fortunately matches up with gravity's acceleration pretty well, so we can use your result just fine without meaningful difference.

2. I'll defer to your expertise, I didn't get to Pascals much in my college physics. Mind doing the calculations for 132 teranewtons of force and a 160 mm^2 area? However, if I understand correctly, this is a case where the effective force scales inversely with the square of the area. A 160 mm^2 area will have 160^2 less force per square meter than a 1 mm^2 area. So, 25,600 times less force. I had assumed my sword was a x10 multiplier, but I'll change it to a x25,600 multiplier! If I'm wrong, it's probably a x160 modifier, yeah?

3. You made my earlier momentum = force error here! I also made this error and some general other stupidity! Instead, if we want to do this right, we have to bring Impulse into the equation. Specifically this equation. Impulse = Force * Time = Change in Momentum. Your time, by your definition is .00001 seconds. Since we want to go from our current speed to zero, the change in momentum is the momentum! Sooo, doot do doot. Momentum = 44 m/s * 30,000 kg = Force (unknown) * .00001 seconds. Which gives us Force = 132,000,000,000 kg*m/s^2. Which is 1000 times my calculation and 100,000 times yours! We're dealing in "tera" prefix things again, and the power of Juno again is in the Miyu would need a four order of magnitude power up to be in the same playing field. We take my earlier result of 66 Miyu units, halve for my average/end velocity goof before, 33, and then multiply it by 1000 to get 33,000 Miyu units. Oh, then multiply by 10 for Juno/Jorm again to get 330,000 Miyu units (because before I only did that for the nuke calc). Can I hear 5 orders of magnitude? Also, remember this is a situation where Juno hardly considered this an attack and was surprised Miyu suffered damage. But wait! My multiplier on the Miyu unit from sword effectiveness is changing to 25,600! I already applied a x10, so we'll divide 330,000 by 2,560 and get: 12.8! Miyu's attack is 12.8 times less for the same amount of area. While Jorm's attack did do severe damage, it did so by blunt force and acceleration. It didn't tear through Henry like a sword blade. Thus, Miyu's blade wouldn't penetrate his skin, even if it did have another 12.8 times relative force (for example, if you say Jorm form actually only increases say, 10% instead of something more significant). And because the blunt force is lower by a factor of 3,300,000 (taking away the original x10 modifier to the Miyu unit), Henry is going to be mildly nonplussed at how the blade bounces off him. And again, this is all entirely assuming an attack that Juno didn't consider an attack and was surprised Miyu took damage from, was Juno's best effort.

4. You directly equated newtons to joules. This is a no no. You also moved the decimal place wrong. Also "her goal being to bisect the machine piloted by the traitor angel with a single swing that carried behind it the energy of one of the nukes Miyu had just dropped over her own allies." So, yeaaaah. You did not write "a perfectly reasonable energy given Juno's mass and speed." I was assuming Juno has magical powers augmenting her attacks. Granted, given how her speed appears to be teleportation to us, I wouldn't be surprised if her actual speed was 28,284 m/s.