What is too much lore?

[Ellri]

For an RP, how much Lore would you feel is "too much"?

This would be outside the regular interest checks (which few would want a mountain of lore in). It can be outside the OoC thread too.

[ScreenAcne]

For an Interest check it depends on the type of RP.

If it something like, fucking. fixed roles: AKA we're all gods, this, that and we're against this: I want only the lore for the concept and a quick summary of need to know things. Such as who is...the kajigis and why do I want to inspect their arteries. I can RP on advanced but even then reading 5 to 9 paragraphs of summary just for a simple interest check tires me before I even start. That dosen't include flavor intros and hider additional prospects.

If the nature of the RP is that, I'm like. Motherfucking my own guy. Chilling with others guys. The rp is more about group dynamic and player driven. Then I want a bit more lore on the world in cut up chunks so I can get a taste of the type of adventures and feel for the stage.

aka: A brief summary ideally under like 3 paragraphs. Then some stuff on types of locations, people. Law enforcement. Enemies and races/tech. All of them cut, dry and quickly explained.

Or in other words:

Out the box concept: Explain it concisely, with liberties to none essential flavor text. Hider additions for need to know items for plot.

Player Driven: Small lore summary. Splattering of small summaries on pertinent things for player start. Town, races, classes, laws, nearby proto type locations.

[Ellri]

@ScreenAcne It may have come across slightly unclear... How much lore, not in interest checks, so not the summaries.

As example, the RP we're currently building has multiple lore documents, with one of them being over 10 pages without being close to done.

[ScreenAcne]

@ScreenAcne It may have come across slightly unclear... How much lore, not in interest checks, so not the summaries.

As example, the RP we're currently building has multiple lore documents, with one of them being over 10 pages without being close to done.

@Ellri

Oh, motherfucking. Right.

I'm fucking. Working without barely any sleep. Sorry, cousin.

I think, it motherfucking depends on the use. Bro. If its between you and already established RP'ers. I mean, my whole deal in the interest check shit kind of translate to the RPs themselves too. In truth, stories can't have too much, motherfucking lore. Look at Harry Potter, how much shit was introduced each book when there was already a lot.

It's all about sizable chunks and cutting the feast into a meals for the brain with good organisation. The biggest worry you might have, is that you have so much lore concerning one topic that players who join might feel their input is invalidated because everything has been built. But, like. That can be, motherfucking avoided by allowing players to introducing lore stuff clearly as accessories to their story. If you do that, they'll feel more validated in their actions when the world reacts to it.

Like...you can have this lore about this supreme court of magic, like. Trialing people with truth potions and if one of your dudes creates a thing that makes it not work. You can have like blatant murderers past the trials, and like.

The whole entire systems has to be redone. While...if its like...no. you can't change that, no matter how hard you try or how much development you have. If the lore is played as stone destiny shit it can be a cage and not a stage for the writing fun.

[Ellri]

true.

But if you think there's a lot of lore for harry potter (of which there is quite a bit...), try looking at the extended Star Wars universe. There is a lot more there.

for our RP we're making a series of lore documents with our co-GMs, as the wiki, wookieepedia, tends to cover all eras, while our lore docs need only one.

[NuttsnBolts]

For an RP, how much Lore would you feel is "too much"?

This would be outside the regular interest checks (which few would want a mountain of lore in). It can be outside the OoC thread too.

@Ellri

@ScreenAcne It may have come across slightly unclear... How much lore, not in interest checks, so not the summaries.

As example, the RP we're currently building has multiple lore documents, with one of them being over 10 pages without being close to done.

@Ellri

Ergh... 10 pages is a lot of information. :\
The question is who is willing to sit down and read all that info unless it's engaging in a useful way?

I personally would be wary of it. I've tried entering several large scale RPs and often have had to pull out due to not knowing, nor understanding the details. They can feel quite daunting especially when it's a really unique world. You as the GM wouldn't have that issue as it's all in your mind, but as a blank canvas applicant I would have to understand the basics of the world to understand the roleplay itself.

In saying that, how is it going to be structured? If you have something like super powers, are you setting that up in a section with a description and explanation for how it all works? Also, how much creativity would there be with the large amount of lore?

[Ellri]

Aye, its a lot. But better than having to dig through 10,000 pages of a wiki. Or more.

The more unique the setting, the less massive the lore needs to be, funnily enough. More extensive details can be revealed/built with time. Pre-defining too much results in overload.

[ClocktowerEchos]

Reminds me of the person who had a 60+ page google doc for lore on an RP. Also remember everyone calling it a "nice story" since it looked like there would be a hell of a lot of limitations and stuff that could happen within said 60 pages of lore.

In my opinion, RP lores should be simple if their original. Give people outlines and maybe a few examples like:

In this RP, tech will be around the mideveal era although there will be various elements of magitech although said magitech is more uncommon understandably. Examples:

- Enchanted plate armor
- Magic-powered Golem
- Special lenses that focus the sun's beam into a weapon
- etc etc etc

(Personally I find it rather annoying when an RP says "we have tech at level X but with a twist!" and doesn't go into any detail leaving everyone wondering what the actual tech level and limitations are/)

In another sense, it could just be that RPs aren't the best way to introduce copious amounts of lore, at least not at once. Lets take Harry Potter and Warhammer 40k for some examples. HP has a lot of lore and world building in it, but its split across seven books and never just thrown out at you. 40k has an even larger lore and reading the wiki would be a pain in the ass, but I mostly learned mine through youtube lore videos which broke it up into easy to understand chunks.

tl;dr - Make a solid but simple lore base in your IC/OOC then build on it as the RP grows.

[Gowi]

For an RP, how much Lore would you feel is "too much"?

This would be outside the regular interest checks (which few would want a mountain of lore in). It can be outside the OoC thread too.

@Ellri

For me, it really doesn't exist but I like in-depth intricate settings even if there's a lot to grasp. I find it rewarding in the end.

[TheEvanCat]

I suppose when you've put thought into the form numbering scheme and regulation names of a fictional bureaucracy system then your RP might have gotten a tad deep.

I've been cooking up lore for Form 23-56 and Publication 12-79 and all that jazz.

[Ellri]

'tis nice to see a variety of views on this...

[ArenaSnow]

Enough to get the world across, yet limit to allow for the inevitable amendments that come with the expansion of the universe and possibility of spinoffs based on less fleshed elements.

[Isotope]

@EllriNever enough!

That said, the best lore is collaborative.

[Arawak]

I am hopeless in regards to lore stuff. On one hand when doing sandboxes lore is just something you'd think you should just make up on the way but than I make a 10 page history on the slug people who conquered the Galaxy a million years ago and I don't know what went wrong.

Lore I suppose with RP is best left simple since every time I try to show all the lore in my RP attempts most tend to vanish. A few guidelines to enforce creativity (so people don't just make soda colored humans in a Sci-fi RP or make tech that breaks the balance) seems to help. What sucks for me is that all the species I make are alien in nature so it can be tedious summarizing them in a way that aquedately explains their world view, culture(s) and biology.

I also find it a bit annoying if the lore goes to waste in short lived RPs. It's the thing that actually eroded a lot of enthusiasm I've had in RPs since I have a bad habit of bottom-up world building and a tendency to build things in terms of first cause. I can't even NRP in space much more because of this, too many Independant technological origins. It drives me insane.

Perhaps another guideline to follow is to not go deep in lore unless the core group is entrenched enough that growing the lore may actually give growth to story telling. Like if the RP's lifespan exceeds one month.

[Crimmy]

Personally, I enjoy having lore, but I usually do a decent chunk that sorta establishes the flavour of the RPG, and stop.

Then I let the players come up with their own thing and work it into the universe.

"Too much" for me is when players get too confused and can't really parse it all. When it's too much for them to properly enjoy. An RPG is essentially a game where chuckleheads get together and do stuff for fun. If it gets in the way of fun, then it's too much.

[Ganryu]

The length of a lady's skirt: long enough to cover the subject, short enough to keep it interesting.

I want the lore to tell me what I should be doing, and what did my char grow up with, but thats it. I dont care who the king was 300 years ago, or what the trade federation's doing if its not imminently important.

[shylarah]

@Gowi@ScreenAcne
*waves*

@Ganryu I like you. You have the best response here.

@Ellri I love lore. I love complex, detailed worlds. So either I want to be able to find the information somewhere, or have the DM tell me when I ask, or I want to be able to come up with my own ideas. I hate it when things don't line up properly. However, for making an rp, you have to keep in mind that not everyone agrees, and some people don't like lengthy discussions on what the impact of a single group trying to gain control of all the magic crystals will do to the world in general. And then there's groups where people are fine with having profiles for various nations, including culture, economics, government, religion, major exports, military, and general temperament, as well as in-depth descriptions of many deities, and complex relationships (I kid you not, but this rp was two entirely separate campaigns, one two hundred years after the first, and we spent years on it as well as two of us writing various stories in the setting. Including one of the main DMs, who is very good at this sort of thing and won NaNo with his tale of the nuclear war that took place shortly after the conclusion of the first rp). We have an entire forum to keep track of it, and no, a lot of it doesn't have direct relevance, but it's nice to have around.

So in the end, it depends on what you're going for. If you're doing sandbox, set up a basic framework and turn people loose. If you have an established setting, let the players know the information their characters would know beforehand, and add to it as needed as new things come up. Pay attention and either correct or work with mistaken assumptions that conflict with things you've decided but not revealed. Flexibility for things that are not plot points is always a plus, and a willingness to discuss ideas with players is good as well. If your rp is going to be heavily plot driven, all that applies and you need to make sure everyone involved has a solid motivation for doing what they will be doing, even if it's not something they want to do. It's not necessary to have everything fleshed out, but make sure you say "welp, I actually haven't constructed x nation yet because I expected you guys to fight, not flee the country, but sure, let's make it now" or find a /good/ reason why it's not possible to go there. There's ways to work around undefined lore, but arbitrary rules and railroading is frustrating.

If you are picky about your setting, and don't want people tampering with the vision you have in your head, then you need to be very involved in discussing it and answering questions. Anything that's not a huge reveal should be accessible somewhere, be it a post or by request. If there's a core concept you can't share yet but that restricts things, that's a fair reason, but let players know that if they ask for information on that concept. Make sure that you have the details you want worked out ahead of when they're needed, and be able to make up more on the spot when needed, and make sure everything fits together.

You don't have to tell everything right away in any case, but it's a good idea to know it. In Ganryu's example, we might not need to know the king 300 years ago if not relevant, but if there's some statue of the king in the square with his name, our characters would probably be aware of who he is, so the knowledge of [name] being king and possibly a timeframe should never be a surprise to the characters later on. Finding out the king didn't really die and went into hiding instead and now works as a traveling musician would be a surprise. If he still uses the name he had when he was king, you /might/ wanna mention that the minstrel shares a name with the king whose statue is in the square, but don't have to say that it's the same guy.

Of course, all of this assumes that players want consistency and structure. My personal opinion is that rps, like any other form of storytelling, should make sense unless the point is not to make sense. It's not always necessary to know why, but there should be a reason behind the scenes. If there's a lot of lore, making a structured reference that can be consulted as needed might be a good idea, but note that players don't need to know every detail if they join late to keep them from getting discouraged.

tl;dr WOO LORE! ALL THE LORE! I like knowing, I like people that are willing to discuss and work together to make more lore as needed, I like being able to help create, I like details. I like being able to ask and theorize and plan. I absolutely hate being told I can't know something that my character would know. If my character has a good reason to know some fact, you can't plan that fact to be a surprise to the player without a very good reason and a skilled execution, and I've not seen it done well often. ^.^

[BrokenPromise]

I like lore. I like a good paragraph or so to get the world started, then its players and GM can continue to add lore. It may have 10 pages or 60 pages or even 666 pages of lore when the RP ends, but if it's added at a comfortable pace, that's all that matters to me. I'll never join an RP that requires hours of reading up front. But if everyone's post contains a little bit of flavor, that's a good thing!