[OOC] Multiverse Rising: Reborn

[thewizardguy]

@Flamelord

You do realize that every single Grey Knight is a psyker, right? Their basic infantry are psykers. They're also warp-resistant, and in over 10.000 years, not a single Grey Knight has ever been corrupted by Chaos. So that's at least 100 psykers, which are all mentioned on my faction sheet (as specified under 'grey knights'). There are also Librarians in other factions, although they are less common. Only the Throne City has Dark Angels Interromancers to guard it personally. The Imperium is covered in the Astronomican, the divine bacon of the Emperor. It's canonically stated that any Daemon looking in it's general direction has it's eyes scorched out of it's head. Being this close to the Emperor basically gives you warp immunity, and anything below the Chaos Gods Incarnate are practically dead the moment they set foot on Imperial soil. So corruption and the warp really aren't an issue.

Admittedly, my knowledge of SG is very limited (I watched the first 3 episodes of SG:Atlantis, and like the first 30 minutes of the movie once), so all I really know is that stargates are portals and ascending is the shit. But I do know that there's no way that the Goa'Uld have unblockable teleportation tech, and the Astronomican would block any teleportation in Imperial territory. Similar to the effect of a Geller Field, or whatever they call the teleport-blocking field in SG. I'm sure they have one, else all combat would end with the Goa'Uld tping a suitcase nuke into the other person's cockpit. Short series.

Oh and the Necron have honestly fairly shitty TP. The masters of TP are the Eldar, specifically Dark, or potentially the Warp Claws from the Chaos Space Marines. Legion of Damned if you count them. Necron have weaker access to the Webway, and can tp their troops to their own buildings, but that's pretty much it.

In any case, I'm willing to believe that your Ba'al has significantly more power behind him than I was aware of. I certainly did not expect him to have all of the Galaxy in terms of manpower. There are only about 1000 space marines total on Arcadia, so they have plenty of quality but not much quantity. So hey, perhaps I underestimated your faction. Regardless, I would advise you not to underestimate the Imperium, as they have plenty of counters to teleportation spamming.

[Flamelord]

I am aware that every Grey Knight is a psyker, yes. So you've got what, less than 400 psykers of no particularly noteworthy ability? Oh, and they can't be doing Space Marine stuff, because if they were doing space marine stuff then they wouldn't be able to do psyker stuff like preventing infiltration.

As for the teleportation, why? SG teleportation doesn't work like WH40K teleportation, so unless the Astronomican is blocking sensors (which would screw with more than just Goa'uld teleportation tech) or something then they have no real defense against it.

Only two factions have defenses against teleportation in Stargate, and one of them uses Organic Technology while the other is literally a copy of a superadvanced alien race that seeded all life in two galaxies. Other than that nobody does. the reason there is still a series is because the Goa'uld don't get that technology until late in the show, and because they are too megalomaniacal 90% of the time to do the smart thing with the tech they have. Besides, if you nuke all your opposition (assuming you don't beam the nuke into a wall or something) then you can't have them serve you as slaves, now can you? They're just making an exception in the face of an existential threat. Because y'konw, someone has threatened to genocide their entire species, multiple times.

I mean, I only have a problem with it because you're just saying that you can straight up no sell anything I do in the area that is specifically a strong point of my faction.

[thewizardguy]

@Flamelord

SG teleportation works pretty much exactly like 40K teleportation. Altering something's location in space through unknown means (in exact science, that is). Small tp doesn't use the Warp in 40K.

Your tp needs a counter. It just does. Because otherwise it allows you to instantly destroy any enemy ship, with nobody possessing the ability to counter it. Instant megaton nuke to the face is hard to outmatch. Hence, a teleportation-blocking Void Shield from 40K aught to block teleportation from the Goa'Uld as well. Alternatively, I could state that the Imperium can also use their teleportation unlimitedly, and tp a Cyclonic Torpedo (world-destroying weapon) to Ba'al's personal quarters. These things are not allowed not necessarily because of fluff reasons, but because else it's just ridiculously overpowered.

However, I do not want to no-sell your faction's abilities. Just prevent them from possessing the power to one-shot any other faction. So how about you can teleport anywhere except where a specific teleport-blocking effect is in place. So you couldn't tp a bomb right into an Imperium ship, but you could tp it right next to it, or at least right outside the forcefield. This allows you to do some damage, but prevents you from one-shotting everything you fight.

There's a reason that characters in shows like this are plot-convinced not to use their abilities to their maximum potential. It's the only thing that keeps them from instantly winning.

Oh and on the Psyker thing, their Space Marine thing IS guarding the Imperium. On the whole no more than 100 space marines are deployed at any one time. Right now is a high-stakes time, and still only about 150 are deployed, out of a thousand.

[Flamelord]

Shields block teleportation. Though I feel like having shields over all your major cities all the time is also going to pose a problem in and of itself. And SG teleportation breaks down your structure to base molecules, then reconstitutes you at the destination. Block the sensors, block the teleport, but that will also kinda ruin your own ability to use sensors too.

It's not just the teleportation that I'm talking about, but the fact that you already claimed infiltration is flat out impossible because psykers. That effectively kills any attempt at espionage or covert actions against your faction, because they can just use mind powers to see through any possible subversion or infiltration or cloaking that I might have to use in whatever plots I develop.

Also, I feel like teleporting a world destroying weapons to Ba'als quarters would, y'know, destroy the world. Which effectively ruins the point of fighting over the planet because you just blew it up.

[thewizardguy]

@Flamelord

Again, Fluff vs OP. Logically speaking I could argue the Imperium merely run constant interference with sensors and communication within their territory, as they use special Voxel systems and Astropaths, both of which are nigh-impossible to block. But yeah, that would stop their own ability to scan. So ima no. Just gonna say the Astronomican

Let's strike a compromise. You can't move into the Throne City without getting picked out by psykers, cuz they're literally at every entrance. Most military facilities in the Imperium are also guarded by the Grey Knights, as their main task is to protect the Imperium's ground facilities. So Psykers. But you could still sneak into their cities (although luggage would still get checked, similar to airport security. So no carrying suitcase nukes into Imperium territory).

Considering Cyclonic Missiles are usually shot into the cores of planets, it would probably only destroy about 1/4 or 1/5 of the planet when detonated on the surface. But you get my point, no?

[Flamelord]

hm, well, I will accept the caveat about military facilities or the capital, but the rest you can't really limit me to like that. I mean, unless everyone working your luggage check is completely incorruptible then I'll be able to slip something through eventually.

[thewizardguy]

@Flamelord
Well, they'd be Space Marines. So not incorruptible, but... fairly hard to corrupt. I mean, what are you going to offer them? Money? Weapons?

Regardless, you might be able to get something in eventually. But all it takes is one or two failed attempts to start a war. Cuz once you're caught trying to smuggle nukes into the Imperium, you ARE going to get interrogated.

[Flamelord]

Soooo, your space marines are running protection for the capital, as well as border security for the entire Imperium? And you have a thousand space marines?

Man, they're either miracle workers when it comes to efficiency, or your territory is a lot smaller than I imagined :V

[Wraithblade6]

I do feel like trying to plant bombs in a land of psychics is pretty impossible. Just sayin.

[Flamelord]

I do feel like trying to plant bombs in a land of psychics is pretty impossible. Just sayin.

@Wraithblade6

Please, they're not all psychics.

Besides, it's not even bombs. It's just the argument that with this sort of restriction my guys will only be able to smuggle in what they can swallowWhich is a tad limiting for a faction whose specialty is covert shenanigans and stabbing people in the back.

[thewizardguy]

@Flamelord
Border guard is rows of automated turrets. Space Marines just man the entry points. Your chances of corrupting the automated turrets are significantly worse than your chances of corrupting the space marines. And those chances aren't great. Automated turrets run on a Servitor brain inserted into a turret, and will see pretty much anything non-space-marine as an enemy.

But yeah, infiltrating the Imperium is a bitch. This faction is based on the 40K Imperium, which was pretty much designed to prevent enemy infiltration. Their only weakness on this front was the sheer size of it, spanning thousands of solar systems. But here, their full forces are fairly concentrated, with about half of them on the ground, and about half of them monitoring from above.

[Wraithblade6]

@Flamelord I'm not sure what else to suggest.

[Flamelord]

Okay, i perfectly understand. Can't infiltrate the Imperium, can't really screw with the Ethereals due to being in orbit and not giving a fuck about anything, no friendly NPC's, no friendly PC's.

What was the point of my faction being here again, besides being a punching bag for you guys?

[Wraithblade6]

@Flamelord Help us stop the Tyranid?

[Flamelord]

@Flamelord Help us stop the Tyranid?

@Wraithblade6

I can nuke the planet until it's uninhabitable, but somehow I feel like that isn't the answer you're looking for. And besides serving as cannon fodder, it's already been established that my military pales in comparison to the mighty Imperium (except maybe the Kull. Harder to determine there)

Srry, but I didn't sign up to be the meat shield and pretend like I'm relevant while every other faction relentlessly mocks mine, as if they aren't a civilization spanning two, if not three, galaxies.

[thewizardguy]

@Flamelord
Then adapt. The Imperium are a pain to mess with, so are the Ethereals. Of course they are. So you'll have to be smart. The entire point of Ba'al is supposed to be that he's a tactician, so play like a tactician.

Besides, if you're able to open a portal home, you could move in entire fleets of ships. 1000 space marines are a deadly force, but you could potentially move in millions of soldiers. This gives you an IG-y edge in straight-up combat. In addition, you might have to try and make underhanded deals, double-crosses, and other such things. Steal tech from the other factions, use it against them.

Your faction is by no means a punching bag, but you're going to have to play it smart, play the odds. Or you could just swarm the planet in soldiers, or as you previously mentioned, nuke your enemies from space. If you prefer direct combat, that is.

If you feel your faction is still too weak, then try asking for OOC assistance, and I'm sure one of the many GMs will happily try and assist you in this matter.

[Flamelord]

>Steal tech

Yeah, sure. Because I can't sneak in a suitcase of potentially useful espionage equipment but I can totally sneak out the blueprints for some amazing tech you guys have, past the guys with psychic powers. Because that will totally work.

I'm not the one who's saying that my faction is weak, I've just been pushed into a position by everyone else insisting that my faction is weak. I can't cut deals or double cross, because I don't have anything other people want, or would negotiate about. the Imperium already showed that either people play things their way or they can go fuck off, and the Ethereals don't really negotiate with anyone unless they feel like it. And since this has apparently been the norm in the backstory (because the Goa'uld would totally let their enemies fight a major war and recover from it without pulling anything)

Basically, I can't actually do anything that you're suggesting that I do, and I don't see any of the other GM's chiming in to settle the dispute in a fair manner besides you pushing your faction as much as you can, and me trying to defend my capabilities. Then again, I should have known better than to argue against the GM faction.

[thewizardguy]

@Flamelord
Well you wouldn't get it from my territory, obviously. You realize most tech is stolen from battlefields, right? The ones with all the broken-down or abandoned ships, tanks, weaponry, and suits of power armour? I mean the plot is leading up to mass battle with the Tyranids, and everyone's gonna lose forces there. Steal the tech while nobody's looking. Port in a bunch of dudes with stretchers and run off with a tank or something (not literally that).

If you want to make a deal, then deal. The Imperium has called 2 negotiation meets, either of which would have been the perfect time to attempt negotiations of a variety of kinds. But when territory was being divided I basically had to drop Asia in your lap on a silver platter, because you didn't speak up.

Admittedly, one of the reasons I'm trying to prevent factions from heading into space is to prevent one faction from spreading out across the universe while the others are actually interacting with one another.

You can do any and all of the things I'm suggesting. Hell, the Imperium called a meeting you specifically declined to go to. I've been trying from the start to throw you every bone I can, although I can see my efforts aren't appreciated. I am not using GM powers to make my faction more powerful, nor am I unreasonably nerfing yours. If you believe that any of my statements are unreasonable then feel free to say so, and I will attempt to resolve the issue, and any other GM may call me out on any such unreasonable behaviour. But I feel like I've been trying to solve the situation here, not 'pushing my faction as much as I can'.

Regardless, I feel like this is becoming an OOC version of an IC argument, and I have no intention to cause fights. So here's my two solutions, feel free to pick either or suggest a third.

1) Dromari and Ba'al glare at each other a bit, Dromari leaves, Ba'al does his colony stuff, and it's generally ignored, in order to prevent conflict. Conflict with the Tyranid happens, and plenty of opportunity for stealing, dealing, backstabbing and doublecrossing shall be granted. The colonies will be left alone, might do stuff with that after the Tyranid conflict when tempers have cooled.

2) Conflict ensues, there's a big fight, and a war between the Goa'Uld and the Imperium ensues. Ba'al calls in his full battlefleet, the Imperium redirects it's soldiers to attack the Goa'Uld, and the other two factions intervene as they see fit. After 7 days have passed the Tyranid attack, and shit hits the fan.

These are the two ways I see this resolving, but I want it resolved, because this conflict is getting us nowhere.

[Absolis]

@Flamelord

So I read. And I thought. And I wrote, but that was too long. So I'll start with one singular point.

Who says you can't double cross and cut deals? Who? Not a single soul.

You see, this is what I don't get about RP. We do our very best to make things seem realistic, but not a single one of us ever seems to LIE ABOUT THINGS. The closest thing I've seen was knightnight, and that was justified. He's a simple demon up against lots of truth telling space marines.

You, your not a little demon against truth telling space marines.

You are, a race of super advanced, sneaky, betrayal prone, creepy little aliens. Lying is in theit very blood. Betrayal is in their very blood.

And not only that, but you are in a multiverse RP. You have access to one million and one ways to circumvent psychic mind reading stuff. Just so long as you actually, you know, look for it.

I mean, you really need to, kill a chrysallid. A group of underfunded human scientists who barely knew what they were doing was able to make something that basically blocked psychic attack out of them, so long as you had a little bit of willpower. The goa'uld should be able to do the same thing in half the time by hitting it with a stick a few times.

Don't want to kill a chrysallid? (Or just feel like saying you can't?)kill any of the other 80 million psychic proof creatures roaming the wilderness. Pick a universe. Any universe. As long as they aren't somethin just as threatening as the tyranid, your good to go. And there's millions of those things, that will serve that very purpose.

(Note: Also, if you do that, at least try to risk something with it. It's far more enjoyable to write, and much more enjoyable for us to read)

I'll probably move on to other stuff later, but I'll start with this.

[Absolis]

Note: I'm only describing one situation and solution. There are many, many others. But I'm not going to write them all out in one post.