The 'Explain The Appeal Of......' Thread

[SleepingSilence]

So whats the appeal of Disney's Frozen? Ive been wondering that for forever.

@Dynamo Frokane

Frankly, I'd like to know the same thing. The soundtrack? (Best guess.)

[Vilageidiotx]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Frankly, I'd like to know the same thing. The soundtrack? (Best guess.)

@SleepingSilence

I would suspect we aren't in that particular show's target demographic.

[SleepingSilence]

@Vilageidiotx Is it because it's a kids movie or because it's targeted at girls? Because I knew many men who were praising frozen and I personally like -a few- kids movies. :P

[BrokenPromise]

So whats the appeal of Disney's Frozen? Ive been wondering that for forever.

@Dynamo Frokane

Simple reason: It was a good movie. It's not as cerebral movie like inception or the matrix, but it was entertaining.

Yes, the reason why people can't shut up about it is largely because of the music. It had also been quite some time since Disney released a worthwhile animated movie, or a musical, and frozen was both.

[Fabricant451]

@Vilageidiotx Is it because it's a kids movie or because it's targeted at girls? Because I knew many men who were praising frozen and I personally like -a few- kids movies. :P

@SleepingSilence

Frozen is targeted at girls in the same way that Treasure Planet is targeted at boys. It's not targeted at girls, it's targeted at young audiences - it is a Disney movie after all - the presence of two princesses doesn't make its audience specifically girls. Frozen is just a well done animated movie which normally wouldn't be much to write home about considering the somewhat bloated state of animated family affairs of varying quality these days; in this case it's not just the soundtrack and colors but the more overt themes that hit home for older audiences. It's a movie that appeals to all ages not because it's like the Dreamworks idea of 'all audiences' (meaning 'here's some risque humor for the parents and some dated references that make the movie of-an-era), but because of how it presents its more mature themes...mature for what is ostensibly a movie for kids, anyway. I mean hell, the movie might as well be the anti-Disney movie considering at its core it's a movie about a love story between two women and the prince charming archetype is a subversion of expectations of the characters. And there's certainly more that could be mentioned but Frozen is like almost four years old now so it's all been said before.

Frozen is a good movie but it suffered the fate a lot of movies of its kind suffer in that it became insufferable for like six months after its release because everyone was singing fucking Let It Go and it became the 'thing' to start shitting on Frozen because liking something for kids is dumb. The appeal is easy enough to explain so I'll do it again: Frozen is an especially well done movie with solid, consistent animation, good characters, catchy song numbers, and manages to have something for everyone in a genuine fashion.

It had also been quite some time since Disney released a worthwhile animated movie

@BrokenPromise

I wouldn't say that. Tangled and Wreck-It Ralph both pre-date Frozen (2010 and 2012 respectively) and both were well regarded - Tangled was even a musical to boot.

[Dolerman]

Why am I the only one asking about appeals?

Whats the appeal of Diddy Kong Racing? I always thought the game looked like shit, and the difficulty spikes are all over the place. The music isnt very good either, so why is it so often brought up?

[SleepingSilence]

Why am I the only one asking about appeals?

Whats the appeal of Diddy Kong Racing? I always thought the game looked like shit, and the difficulty spikes are all over the place. The music isn't very good either, so why is it so often brought up?

@Dynamo Frokane

Now were going to have a problem. :I

Honestly, comparing to other racers at the time. I think it had more tracks, characters and stuff to do than mario kart did. Came out the same year. It had boss fights and an open world in the adventure mode and several different vehicles to race with and had interesting gaming modes. (which admittedly was probably the best part of the multiplayer and not the racing.) Also I'd argue it had a longer and better soundtrack to boot. So aside it being a blatant copy, I think it does plenty of things better than what it mimicked.

Okay, I'm trying to think of something to question the appeal of...Got nothing. >.>

[Dolerman]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Now were going to have a problem. :I

@SleepingSilence

What else is new?

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Now were going to have a problem. :I

Honestly, comparing to other racers at the time. I think it had more tracks, characters and stuff to do than mario kart did.

@SleepingSilence

It had the exact same amount of starting characters as Mario Kart, with 2 bonus characters. But I wasnt just comparing it to MK. I'm not even saying it was a bad game, but the weird difficulty spikes, poorly composed music (soundtrack length doesn't necessarily mean anything good), and generic stage designs are why I question the appeal.

[BrokenPromise]

Why am I the only one asking about appeals?

@Dynamo Frokane

Can't speak for everyone, but the 2 times in this topic I wanted something explained to me no one responded. It seemed silly to make more inquiries. That, and a few of them are just invitations for circle jerks that I don't really feel like participating in.

[Fabricant451]

Whats the appeal of Diddy Kong Racing? I always thought the game looked like shit, and the difficulty spikes are all over the place. The music isnt very good either, so why is it so often brought up?

@Dynamo Frokane

The N64 came out during a very formative time in a lot of people's lives and as such they remember bad things very fondly. Like the entire N64 which was a garbage fire of a console.

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane Plenty. But nothing particularly interesting. ;P

I mean what else can you compare it too though? It was a better game than the games it was competing with at the time. I suppose soundtrack is getting in the weeds with opinions. But I liked the soundtrack for the game and the level designs were far more interesting than mario karts or other racers on the 64. Also nostalgia purposes? That's really the best defense I got. Same + 2 equals more characters ya know. :P

[SleepingSilence]

@Fabricant451 You leave perfect dark alone. D: Still probably the most fun I've ever had in an FPS frankly. But seriously aren't all old games more shit compared to newer, and better polished games? Ya know excluding the increasingly awful practices by gaming companies. All nostalgia blinds people in some way or another.

Also just to touch upon Frozen not being marketed to girls...is correct technically but I feel it's making a point that doesn't necessary need to be made. Most of the toy line and apparel and marketing did revolve around girls and girl power. Sure boys can like it too, but it's like saying Disney wasn't pandering to furries when the released Zootopia. Because sure Disney wants to be fun for the whole family and what not, but come on now. It clearly was doing that too. :P

[GarlandChaos]

Could someone please explain to me why rap and hip-hop are so popular? The former I am especially dumbfounded by; it's all almost the exact same thing over and over again, what with all the talk about drugs, sex, profanity out the ass, and the frequent use of a certain 'n' word.

So why in God's name is it as popular as it is?

[Fabricant451]

Could someone please explain to me why rap and hip-hop are so popular? The former I am especially dumbfounded by; it's all almost the exact same thing over and over again, what with all the talk about drugs, sex, profanity out the ass, and the frequent use of a certain 'n' word.

So why in God's name is it as popular as it is?

@GarlandDaHero

Oh boy. A nerve has been struck here but I'm gonna not let that influence me and I'll just stick to a brief answer.

First of all, saying rap is all the exact same thing shows an ignorance of the genre. It would be like me saying all pop music is about love. Rap is as diverse a genre of music as any other and takes a certain talent and appreciation for music to truly succeed at. Great rap is an art. When you have an MC who can flow atop a great beat while giving lyrics that make you think, it's another level. I'm not sure why sex or drugs are seen as a negative stereotype of rap music when rock music has been doing it for far longer. Even the Beatles wrote songs about drugs and sex. Rap, like any genre of music, is as much a platform for its artists as anything else. Yes there are rappers that sing about "the lifestyle" and having enough disposable cash to throw on sex, drugs, cars, whatever. But that's just surface stuff there and it's the kind of argument that people bring up because they hear someone like mush mouthed Chief Keef or something.

I suppose I haven't really explained the appeal but it's a difficult thing to express because everyone has different tastes. That said what I'm gonna do instead is provide some examples of rappers, some famous and some not, who aren't just about the lifestyle. Who are examples of the talent and skill that make great rappers or at least very good ones.



Guru was a damn poet and this song is an inspirational track about getting back up when life gets hard and it's delivered in a unique way thanks to Guru's gift with lyrics and the beat provided by Premo. This song is a great example of what rap can really do: inspire, uplift, be thought provoking, and be powerful. The way Guru flows with the beat...it's a work of art, truly.



Four Women was a song written by Nina Simone which was a song about the lasting effects of slavery via the stories of four women. Here, the song is re-imagined into a song that is just as powerful and resonant. It keeps the soul of the original and adds a new level of heart. A lot of rap music came from a place like this, with poets using their words to speak out about their reality. When rap was violent with its lyrics, it was in response to violence within communities - it's not that dissimilar to a group like, say, Rage Against the Machine which used rap and guitars in order to have more political minded messages in their songs.



If you're starting to see a pattern, congrats. If not, I'll just spell it out. While beats are important in creating a good rap song, what really makes a rap song great is, of course, the lyrics and with it the flow. Nas is one of the all time greats and One Mic is one of the greatest songs recorded, any genre. It's an incredibly powerful song dealing with real issues within the community that people like Nas came from, the hook in this song, how he just needs one mic, speaks volumes alone.

Yes, there are rap songs about fucking and getting money, but rap is a powerful tool for bringing up social, economic, and political issues. But that's just one side of the coin.



It's real easy for people to piss on Kanye West and sure, he invites a lot of it, but you can't deny the man knows what he's doing when it comes to putting together a production. He didn't get infamous just with his ego alone. Even if you ignore the lyrics, which why would you when they're so strong and is a rarity in that it's a exultation on spirituality, listen to the production, the music, the beat. The tempo makes the whole song sound like a marching band or a military cadence. It is things like that, the care in the craft of the song, that made Kanye West so successful even before he was known for his lack of awareness and his arrogance.



This isn't even Missy's best song but it does perfectly exemplify how diverse rap is as a genre. While the previous songs have had powerful lyrics and memorable beats, this song created a unique style (something Missy does all the damn time) and created an absurdist, futurist anthem. It trades drum and bass for synth and jungle beat and cemented Missy as a surrealist and someone who evolves the genre. Hell, she's reclaiming the word bitch even.



This song speaks for itself. When this song came out, Em was at the top of the entire game and for great reason.



Li'l Wayne, like Kanye, is an easy target for people that really don't listen to a lot of rap. And sure, some of it is deserved and I'm not the biggest fan of his but A Milli is what people call a banger and it's one the songs that proved how Li'l Wayne was on a different level from a lot of his contemporaries at the time. It's lyrics are chock full of entendre and multi-meanings that turn a song that, on the surface, sounds like the anthem of a kid that 'made it), into an anthem of a rapper who is staking his claim and making others take note. The thing about Wayne is that while he may not have the most consistent flow (but when he's on, he's on) he does have genre defining beats. Now some can argue that the shift to harder beats is what is ruining or ruined rap but beats have evolved with the times. Even Straight Outta Compton had a hard beat and that's one of the greatest songs of all time.



I just wanted an excuse to put another Kanye track on the list and to show that even in the present era where people like to complain about the content of rap, there exists a song like New Slaves.



Rap can even get deeply personal, not in the political or social way but in the actual self reflection and introspective way. Case in point is this track. Fatlip was never exactly popular and here is a song where he goes into his feelings and his depression. It's one of the realest songs you can get because here's a song from a guy that didn't really ever "make it" in the same way as damn near everyone else posted did.

I could go on but I kinda think I've done a poor job anyway and have just been indulging myself. But what I'm trying to get across is that rap is an incredibly diverse genre that constantly evolves. It has old voices speaking up and new voices steering the conversation. Yes, there are songs that are popular and bad and are vapid, but that's selling the entire genre short. It's fine not to like rap. It's not a genre made for a lot of people. But it does speak to a lot of people and often has been the voice of the voiceless. Hip Hop evolved from the funk era of the 70s and 80s and rap evolved from there. It's still evolving and changing. Even with the rise of 'gangsta' rap it brought about things like G-Funk which was an evolution of the roots of the entire thing.

I have to stress again that thinking rap is about money, drugs and bitches is wrong on every possible level. But even taking the songs that are about that or at least include it, like the song Lifestyle by Rich Gang, is it so wrong for people to want to express their happiness at finding success? For a lot of rappers they started poor and found success with their words and music.

[SleepingSilence]

Could someone please explain to me why rap and hip-hop are so popular? The former I am especially dumbfounded by; it's all almost the exact same thing over and over again, what with all the talk about drugs, sex, profanity out the ass, and the frequent use of a certain 'n' word.

So why in God's name is it as popular as it is?

@GarlandDaHero

Actually rap has a lot of good variety, (it's no metal, but it does have stuff that breaks the mold.) With genuinely good lyrical content. You just need to look for it and avoid the mainstream that plagues the genre. There's a ton of rap that doesn't have to do with drugs and sex and doesn't abuse profanity at all. Also can have quite different instrumentals, including rock and folk stuff. Alt-Rap has a ton of good stuff in it. I will try to expose you to a bunch of stuff and maybe you'll find something you might actually like. :D

Here's 12 rap songs from artists. Minimal language provided. :3 If you're really interested in trying to like rap, as I was when I was in your position, maybe I can convert you to a fan. xP

Dude that got me into rap.
Rock Beat/Emotional
Rap/Blues
Emotional Song
Break Up Song/guy never curses in any song he writes.
"Reflects his failure as a visual artist, and some of the regret I’ve experienced in regards to not pursuing it"- Quoted
A fast lyrical rap, one thing I always appreciated over mainstream artists.
Folk Beat/Grim and about death. (its 4 min long)
Electronic beat.
A song about the periodic table.
An angry rap talking about current events and the death of the rappers mother.
Story Rap. Mostly Harmonica.

Now my rap related question, ironically enough. Please humor me and explain why vs everything I could listen to...

Why Kendrick Lamar is so enjoyable and rated so highly? He does practically nothing new...He's not overly fast rapper, he's not lyrically complicated, (in fact he is pretty awful.) he uses the n-word and curses like it goes out of style. Some of his stuff is mildly depressing/self loathing...which is apparently like why some people apparently like Drake...But holy hell, there are better artists that do that. I think I like a single song I've heard from him called I, but he does some weird vocal pitch changes that are unnecessary. Tried to listen to his second album and I couldn't even finish it, I hated it that badly. Am I missing something here?

[mickilennial]

Even amongst contemporary rap their assertion is incorrect, yes. I would also like to state this is all very amusing criticisms considering rock and roll was popularized on the concepts of sex, drugs, and rebellion; it is in part why the sexual liberation happened. But I suppose that is a tangent of sorts. Anyway, urban culture [see: hip hop, contemporary R&B, rapping, turntablism, etc] in general has been diverse since its inception in the early seventies and to claim shallow is disingenuous.

Also, if you don't like the language of the street don't listen to the language of the street.

[SleepingSilence]

<Snipped quote by GarlandDaHero>
Oh boy. A nerve has been struck here but I'm gonna not let that influence me and I'll just stick to a brief answer.

@Fabricant451

I agree 100% percent, but oh man some of those song choices, literally skipped to a part of the Kanye verse where the line was.
"I'm not a dick, just a swallower." That's pretty much what he was talking about, kanye can't help himself make lyrical failures that waste his production and should not be an example for good rap. IMAO. (Despite black skinhead instrumental being fantastic.)

I have a sneaking feeling the Lil Wayne one won't be squeaky clean either. (Yeah looked it up, it curses a lot. "On some faggot bullshit; call 'em Dennis Rodman Call me what you want, bitch! Call me on my Sidekick! Never answer when it's private, damn, I hate a shy bitch")

And I do like the Eminem song, but have a feeling he may have heard that one already since he is so well known. Also Nas is a good artist (though dont know much about him.) The video literally has a (explicit) warning. And yeah it uses the n-word and curses a lot. XD

He wanted examples of limited cursing, no sexual stuff, no taking drug stuff. No n-word this and that. Etc. Just saying. On your side, just could of been a stronger line up.

[Fabricant451]

Why Kendrick Lamar is so enjoyable and rated so highly? He does practically nothing new...He's not overly fast rapper, he's not lyrically complicated, (in fact he is pretty awful.)

@SleepingSilence

There's things that can be unpacked here but I'll have to save that for another time and just start by saying the part I bolded? Yeah that's just plain not true as Kendrick Lamar is one of the greatest story tellers that's picked up a mic in the genre.

[SleepingSilence]

@Fabricant451 Examples please, I really tried to like him. But really one of the best? Do I have to provide his bars? Like I want to at least find something that I like other than "I." I'm not closed minded, that's just what I got from his 2nd album. Is his first or third album better at this storytelling you speak of?

Edit: Going to give you an insert from one of my favorite artist than try to find Kendrick verses to compare them too...

An alteration from Sadistik.

"Acquired conscious competence of all of my accomplishments
And conquered constant comments that contradicted my confidence
Common compliments were called upon to con me in
Accosted consonant comments that condescended all my common sense"

Now from what an article calls his best song.
The hook
"Man down, where you from, nigga?"
"Fuck who you know, where you from, my nigga?"
"Where your grandma stay, huh, my nigga?"
"This m.A.A.d city I run, my nigga"

Lines:
The driver seat
The first one to get killed
Seen a light-skinned nigga with his brains blown out
At the same burger stand where *beep* hang out
Now this is not a tape recorder saying that he did it
But ever since that day, I was looking at him different
That was back when I was nine
Joey packed the nine
Pakistan on every porch is fine
We adapt to crime
Pack a van with four guns at a time

Uses nigga, rhymes words with themselves, and mostly one syllable/simple words.

Sure it's just -one- song, but which song do YOU feel is his lyrically strongest?

A random verse from his newest album.

I'm willin' to die for this shit
I done cried for this shit, might take a life for this shit
Put the Bible down and go eye for an eye for this shit
D.O.T. my enemy, won't catch a vibe for this shit, ayy
I been stomped out in front of my mama
My daddy commissary made it to commas
Bitch, all my grandmas dead
So ain't nobody prayin' for me, I'm on your head, ayy
Thirty millions later, know the feds watchin'
Auntie on my telegram, like, "Be cautious!"
I be hangin' out at Tam's, I be on Stockton
I don't do it for the 'Gram, I do it for Compton
I'm willin' to die for this shit, nigga
I'll take your fuckin' life for this shit, nigga
We ain't goin' back to broke, family sellin' dope
That's why you mainey-ass rap niggas better know

Random full verse from a song of his. (mine.)

When they burned the bodies I smelled the smoke
From the hell below
Where they turned to zombies to sell their souls
To the highest bidder I'm high and bitter
In this crypt of mine no kryptonite
Just cryptic minds
Crimson-like when I draw the lines
A foggy life leaves me mystified
In this dream of mine full of Dramamine
Where I wanna sing but my screams are quiet
And my screams requite
Demons acquired
Deeming the choir all charlatans
Harlots in my audience
Watch the harlequins all get sawed to bits
Deadliness is next to godliness right?

See a difference?

I know it may come off as negative, and I don't mean to intentionally piss anyone off by calling someone else's music/enjoyment bad. But I genuinely have not been impressed by his wordplay, his flow or even purely instrumentally...

[Fabricant451]

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

I agree 100% percent, but oh man some of those song choices, literally skipped to a part of the Kanye verse where the line was.
"I'm not a dick, just a swallower." That's pretty much what he was talking about, kanye can't help himself make lyrical failures that waste his production and should not be an example for good rap. IMAO. (Despite black skinhead instrumental being fantastic.)

I have a sneaking feeling the Lil Wayne one won't be squeaky clean either. (Yeah looked it up, it curses a lot. "On some faggot bullshit; call 'em Dennis Rodman Call me what you want, bitch! Call me on my Sidekick! Never answer when it's private, damn, I hate a shy bitch")

And I do like the Eminem song, but have a feeling he may have heard that one already since he is so well known. Also Nas is a good artist (though dont know much about him.) The video literally has a (explicit) warning. And yeah it uses the n-word and curses a lot. XD

He wanted examples of limited cursing, no sexual stuff, no taking drug stuff. No n-word this and that. Etc. Just saying. On your side, just could of been a stronger line up.

@SleepingSilence

I picked my songs for a reason. You're doing exactly what a lot of people do and making incorrect assumptions. You're taking the lyrics at face value as they come and the reason I picked a song like A Milli is precisely because it reads as a song glorifying the lifestyle but is more a personal anthem and statement of intent (and also because of the beat, which is why I mentioned it.) As for the Yeezy verse, you got it wrong. The line is "You see it's leaders and it's followers/But I'd rather be a dick than a swallower" which is literally Kanye explaining a lot of his arrogance. It boils down to "I would rather say what's on my mind and be considered an asshole than hold my tongue and be a liar or not say anything."

The thing about good rap is that it has metaphors and double meanings like that. That's not a lyrical failure of Kanye. It's a failure of comprehension on the listener. A song using the word nigger isn't a knock against a song. That word is so steeped in the genre and in the culture it sprung from that it's often a word of rally. Having a problem with that word in rap music has less to do with disliking the music but that'll open up a racial can of worms and let's not.