Lets talk about JonTron and his possibly racist views.

[Dolerman]

I'll keep this fairly short and non snarky. I'm not going to give a trigger warning, but if you are a huge fan of JonTron there is going to be some comments here you wont like, just a heads up.

So just a bit of background, I'm only mildly familiar with jontron, I started watching Game Grumps just around a month before he left and I wasn't really familiar with much of his work outside of that, so I was never a huge fan but what I did see from him I thought was quite funny, he seems to understand comedy and video games quite well.

Fast forward to now and there have been two videos that basically reveal he has some very troubling views about race, nationalism and the state of american culture in general.


It started with a conversation with a popular LINO (liberal in name only) Sargon Of Akkad on his livestream where he sort of started ranting quite heavily with traces of some white nationalist views.

Its long as fuck, prob dont watch it.

And then after spouting some very odd views to live streamer destiny, they got in a debate which REALLY exposed his views.



Here are some of the quotes

1 Wealthy blacks also commit more crime than poor whites, that's a fact.

2 What is so offensive about white people saying they'd like to preserve their demographic majority?

3 It's clear that whites are not allowed to speak up against their demographic um... oblivion.

4 Do you consider the european colonisation of Africa a bad thing? (Destiny replies that it's complicated). It's only complicated because it's whites.

5 When white people are aggressed against in their own nations by people that are not white, they are told constantly, check your privilege. You colonised us, you owe us this land blah blah blah.

6 We've gotten rid of discrimination in our western countries. If you don't think we've gotten rid of discrimination, you're living in a fantasy land.

7 But if they assimilated they would enter the gene pool eventually...

Now apart from 7 none of these quotes are explicitly racist but it all points in the direction of white nationalist talking points. Now if you listen to the debate it seems like he has come upon this info fairly recently and possibly hasnt thought it through.

My theory is that hes went down some odd slippery slope that probably started with something mild like gamergate which lead to Mens Rights, Right Libertarianism, 'Redpill' Western Supremacy, /pol/ boards and then probably some sort of alt right persuasion.

Do I think hes racist? Honestly I dont know, I think hes been fed some shoddy info and hes lapped it up pretty whole and maybe he needs some more challenges to his worldview, but being as popular as he is I don't know if he is going to get that wake-up call.

[DepressedSoviet]

@Dynamo FrokaneThese are definitely statements that put him on my personal "keep an eye on" list, so to speak. They for certain hold the usual rhetoric of far-right organizations, particularly those associated with white nationalism or white supremacy. Likely, he's being caught up in something that's simply far bigger than him or his demographic, and all we can really hope is that he sees the negative in the comments he's made, before its too late.

[+]

Failing that, and if he goes deeper in, we just kill him in the revolution like the fascist pig he is. :P

[ZB1996]

When you said you were going to make another thread, I honestly thought you were joking, but apparently not.

Edit: More seriously, these do seem to be the sort of things a white nationalist would say. As someone of mixed-race, I cannot see how a non-racist could defend the view that the gradual alteration of the color of skin of a people over time is something worth complaining about.

[Dolerman]

When you said you were going to make another thread, I honestly thought you were joking, but apparently not.

@ZB1996

[DepressedSoviet]

Speaking of JonTron...

Let's not forget this was a thing that happened.

[Garattee]

Black person standing up for blacks= Black Pride

White person standing up for whites= Evil Racist

[SleepingSilence]

Just the hot topics displayed here...*eye rolls*

Yeah, just passing by this...as much as I know this will do no fucking good. So, I won't even dismantle this bit by bit because I don't have the time.

For starters, Wouldn't this be more appropriate in spam? -.-

Very first two things that pop out that should make the answer VERY clear.

1. You don't know him well, personally or even on an online level.

2. You don't want people to watch things...you kind of HAVE to watch things to become educated. Blindly following something without looking at evidence is, ya know, a minor problem.

I think I'll just paraphrase somebody...

"I won't call them a racist, because I don't know what's in their head or in their heart." <- And this is something everyone should stand by to.

If you want words to have any fucking meaning at all, you have to give them some standards. What are the chances that he isn't good at speaking in political means? Maybe because he never did before...

1. Do more wealthy blacks kill more people than poorer whites? (Even if it is specifically gang related?) Who really knows for sure? I know you certainly didn't check...and maybe he didn't either.



Link debating the facts behind this/source on the picture: quora.com/How-accurate-are-the-statist..



Source for 2nd pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers..

Are these 100% accurate? Who knows? But calling somebody racist, (Aka meaning, Evil for thinking they are superior to another race.) for thinking something that seems plausible. And maybe it's something he read...from something like both of these...Maybe they're wrong and that makes him, ignorant or misguided.

Maybe instead of fucking horseshit identity politics, people could not assume the worst intentions of someone they hardly know? (And don't seem to care about in the first place.)

I don't care how bad it looks and how politically incorrect this seems...if it IS the truth. It shouldn't fucking matter...

dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-y..

Can people have a little fucking common sense and just think before they throw their labels of the day on others? What if someone called you racist? How would that make you feel? Especially if you had black family members or friends, grew up in ghetto neighborhoods? Or maybe lived in the ghetto first hand? Aside from dismissing it right off the bat, would it piss you off?

It would certainly piss me off, but I'd love to believe that's why people constantly use this tactic. But I'm going to -again- give you the benefit of the doubt, including everyone who throws this shit out on a day to day basis. Maybe they have genuine concern (of this stranger you don't know/never met in your life)...but if you really had that. You'd talk to the person, privately and ask them straight up.

Trust me, a real racist would not hold their true opinions back. Because people like that, they have no guilt. They don't see their sick opinions as incorrect...so if you asked that person up front. Do you think you're superior and/or deserve special treatment because you're a different race. They'll say "YES." And case closed. Otherwise, probably not and move the fuck on, and let people worry about real problems and not make up phantom ones.

[Dolerman]

Yeah, just passing by this...as much as I know this will do no fucking good.

"I won't call them a racist, because I don't know what's in their head or in their heart."
If you want words to have any fucking meaning at all, you have to give them some standards. What are the chances that he isn't good at speaking in political means? Maybe because he never did before...

But calling somebody racist, (Aka meaning, Evil for thinking they are superior to another race.) for thinking something that seems plausible.

Maybe instead of fucking horseshit identity politics, people could not assume the worst intentions of someone they hardly know? (And don't seem to care about in the first place.)

Can people have a little fucking common sense and just think before they throw their labels of the day on others? What if someone called you racist?

@SleepingSilence

Now apart from 7 none of these quotes are explicitly racist but it all points in the direction of white nationalist talking points. Now if you listen to the debate it seems like he has come upon this info fairly recently and possibly hasnt thought it through.

Do I think hes racist? Honestly I dont know, I think hes been fed some shoddy info and hes lapped it up pretty whole and maybe he needs some more challenges to his worldview, but being as popular as he is I don't know if he is going to get that wake-up call.

@Dynamo Frokane

Find the quote where I called him a racist, I DARE you.

[SleepingSilence]

<Snipped quote by SleepingSilence>

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Find the quote where I called him a racist, I DARE you.

@Dynamo Frokane

Lets talk about JonTron and his possibly racist views.

^ The exact title. My man, what else can that even be/implying? Also I did state/mildly edit this to refer to literally anyone implying someone is racist. Wasn't directed only at you, even before the edit.

So that's one point for me...I want do the next dare, I won't eat anything gross. Just fyi. *sarcasm*

You want to pretend/act like your trying to have an actual conversation and aren't using agenda based politics, here's a dare for you. Don't use any labels while discussing this topic...not only is it possible, it would be better as well.

Here, I'll even help you.

Title: How do you feel about JonTron and the things that he said? (How's that? Worked an excruciating 4 seconds on it. :D)

[Dolerman]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

Lets talk about JonTron and his possibly racist views.

^ The exact title. My man, what else can that even be/implying? Also I did state/mildly edit this to refer to literally anyone implying someone is racist. Wasn't directed only at you, even before the edit.

So that's one point for me...I want do the next dare, I won't eat anything gross. Just fyi. *sarcasm*

You want to pretend/act like your trying to have an actual conversation and aren't using agenda based politics, here's a dare for you. Don't use any labels while discussing this topic...not only is it possible, it would be better as well.

Here, I'll even help you.

Title: How do you feel about JonTron and the things that he said? (How's that? Worked an excruciating 4 seconds on it. :D)

@SleepingSilence

So you couldn't find the quote where I called him racist? Well thats cleared up then, thanks for coming clean.

The views point in the direction of white nationalist talking points, especially worrying that immagrants will enter the gene pool is pretty fucking alarming and not just another mainstream view unless you share this same idea and see nothing wrong with it.

I'm not sure if you've watched either of the videos? Have you? Can you say for certain that nothing he said in the 2 hours of the destiny debate came off as a little extreme and possibly indicating some dodgy views or are you just responding to a strawman that calls everyone racist for no reason?

If I didn't want to have a conversation I wouldn't have made it a thread would I? How about you lay off trying to read my mind and assume my intentions, your psychic powers dont seem to be particularly strong tonight.

[Fabricant451]

Black person standing up for blacks= Black Pride

White person standing up for whites= Evil Racist

@Garattee

Is this post serious I can't tell. Because if it's a joke it's of the toppest of qualities but if it's meant to be taken seriously then boy oh boy. So I'm gonna go ahead and say this is just some quality shit posting. We all do it. Shit posting is life after all.

Maybe instead of fucking horseshit identity politics, people could not assume the worst intentions of someone they hardly know? (And don't seem to care about in the first place.)

@SleepingSilence

I don't have to know the guy to know that his views, while he's certainly entitled to them, are kind of..well...misguided and laughably ignorant. It's easy for a lot of people in that particular camp (the camp of people who think 'tubers like Sargon of Akaad are rational and not cherry picking fear mongers) to agree with JonTron when he says stuff like 'discrimination doesn't exist in America' because, and this is key, to people like that there's a little asterisk around everything and the asterisk says 'to me'.

It's a matter of "Well I'M not being discriminated against so it's not happening." Or "Muslim women in American can wear a hijab and not be mocked by me so discrimination and racism is dead." Just because there aren't colored drinking fountains anymore doesn't mean discrimination and racism aren't alive and well. Yes, things are better for people of color and women and minorities than they were like 40 years ago but to claim that just because lynchings and cries of nigger don't happen means discrimination is dead is almost as crazy as saying whites need to remain pure to save their culture and that a xenophobic society is the ideal society.

JonTron is just the latest in a long line of people who think that people who are like "Hey man, it's kinda not cool to use derogatory words" is policing language and thoughts. It's like people saying "FIRST AMENDMENT, BRAH" to hide behind their questionable statements. Jon's thrown his lot in with a certain movement of people, the kind of people who watch cuckold porn and take it as a metaphor for modern society, and it's almost telling how a fair few of them are kinda schlubby greasy dudes with pale complexions but I'm probably doing some character attack or strawman or virtue signaling or some sort of fuckery I don't care.

Jon is in a bit of a weird place in that unlike someone like, say, Sargon or whomever, his views were never really part of his content. Granted his content is a whole other issue and I'm not exactly a fan of him or Arin (seriously, Arin, you have the stupidest views on games some times, man) or GameGrumps, but his political views shouldn't exactly impact his content. I'm sure there are former fans who will no longer support him because of these views but the writing has been on the wall for a while now anyway.

The whole Destiny/Tron debate came off as JonTron being massively unprepared and Destiny's debate style is a lot of shouting and bulldozing people; the problem with a lot of the people Destiny debates (like JonTron or MisterMetokur or other people in a particular camp) is that no matter how the debate goes, one side will always spout off how they showed that cuckazord Destiny and his libtard faggotry. It's indicative of a larger problem of fucking no one wanting to have an actual conversation and discuss opposing views. Why would you when it's easier to ignore views and factoids that challenge and debunk the view in your individual bubbles.

JonTron is a mildly entertaining sometimes amusing rarely funny guy who talks about bad video games and movies and shit on the internet. There's plenty of those on the internet. He's allowed to have his views and opinions just the same as people are allowed to call him out on them. I'm not saying he's a racist. I am saying that us non whites need to move up the plan for white genocide, the motherfucker is onto us.

[Garattee]

@Fabricant451 I wasnt kidding, or are you in the 'only whites can be racist' camp?

[Garattee]

@SleepingSilence And you wonder why I didnt want 'debates' in my music thread.

[Fabricant451]

@Fabricant451 I wasnt kidding, or are you in the 'only whites can be racist' camp?

@Garattee

I'm in the "racism isn't a black and white issue" camp.

That's a pun.

[DepressedSoviet]

I'm not saying he's a racist. I am saying that us non whites need to move up the plan for white genocide, the motherfucker is onto us.

@Fabricant451

So we may need to work out some scheduling, cause I was planning a pro-Communist purge of Fascism and Nationalism, and I'd rather it not conflict with your genocide. How about I take the 6th, and you can follow-up on the 7th?

[SleepingSilence]

<Snipped quote by SleepingSilence>

So you couldn't find the quote where I called him racist? Well thats cleared up then, thanks for coming clean.

The views point in the direction of white nationalist talking points, especially worrying that immagrants will enter the gene pool is pretty fucking alarming and not just another mainstream view unless you share this same idea and see nothing wrong with it.

I'm not sure if you've watched either of the videos? Have you? Can you say for certain that nothing he said in the 2 hours of the destiny debate came off as a little extreme and possibly indicating some dodgy views or are you just responding to a strawman that calls everyone racist for no reason?

If I didn't want to have a conversation I wouldn't have made it a thread would I? How about you lay off trying to read my mind and assume my intentions, your psychic powers dont seem to be particularly strong tonight.

@Dynamo Frokane

You implied his views were racist ('possibly') in the very title, can't even counter that. That is a VERY legit answer, you WROTE the title didn't you? Unless I fucking hear an argument why my title isn't better. You concede my point.

And you know avoiding a subject is 101 rule on lying...I won't play this song and dance. This was meant for anyone who looked at this because they actually hold the opinions they share.

A talking point (the first one) that I just showed has some statistical backing...but you didn't read or pay attention to any of that...

The views point in the direction of white nationalist talking points, especially worrying that immagrants will enter the gene pool is pretty fucking alarming and not just another mainstream view unless you share this same idea and see nothing wrong with it.

I really hate to be that guy, but just use google chrome dude. It's faster, and it has built in spell check. *immigrants
But, you really can't make an argument me using the word you implies, I just mean you. If you do the same thing but even without context it's closer to the truth. And immigrants is an entirely different (agenda based) topic.
Shouldn't be added in this regardless. (Also seems a little fucking unlikely that he dislikes immigrants since his family wasn't born in america. But again, my point remains.)

Well I guess it's because I didn't say so, so fair question. But I have watched it. And I already stated that he may not be the best speaker when it comes to discussing this kind of stuff. But Destiny has always been an awful debater and relies on shady tactics himself, he also holds very stupid and extreme opinions of his own. (Recently non-biasedly pissed everyone in the artist community off, by saying they make no content, so of course they make no money and shouldn't whine about it.)

"Its long as fuck, prob dont watch it."

But my counter to you asking me about that, is you told others not to watch those and stated a lot of things that he said. Now I'm not saying you did. But couldn't that lead to misquoting and misleading people into an agenda? Telling others to disregard a source and just read this. Doesn't that seem, in your words. Problematic?

And are you calling the sheer fact that people use labels on fucking everything, something that doesn't exist? Must I prove you wrong here? Okay.



pastebin.com/nrskPLXg

Different demon, but same problem. (and I already know you're counter. Not using the racist label though.)

facebook.com/BLMUK/videos/656751864473.. A video about CLIMATE CRISIS'S! Being a race issue. Among other things...Now, I don't care about your political opinions on climate change. But this is stupid and it's borderline offensive to people's intelligence.

Did you not read my post again? Like again, again? (intentional use of again.)

But I'm going to -again- give you the benefit of the doubt.

^ ^ ^ DOES THIS SEEM LIKE A QUOTE SOMEONE WOULD USE TO ASSUME SOMEONE ELSE'S INTENTIONS. I'M MAKING THIS BIG AS POSSIBLE, TO MAKE IT CLEAR AS POSSIBLE FOR YOU. ^ ^ ^

[tanderbolt]

Trust me, a real racist would not hold their true opinions back. Because people like that, they have no guilt. They don't see their sick opinions as incorrect...so if you asked that person up front. Do you think you're superior and/or deserve special treatment because you're a different race. They'll say "YES." And case closed. Otherwise, probably not and move the fuck on, and let people worry about real problems and not make up phantom ones.

@SleepingSilence

This school of thought is irritating, and taken far enough can actually blind us to real prejudice. David Duke, Richard Spencer, Ian Smith, Cecil Rhodes, and PW Botha have all publicly denied that they are racists or hold enmity for other races, but it is plainly apparent that they are based on their words and actions. Publicly denying racism while still sponsoring racist policies is so well known that political strategists outright admit they do it. As for JonTron, it's hard to get a set of opinions like that without at least being a fellow traveler in white nationalist circles, those particular talking points all originate from those corners and are vanishingly rare outside of them. Maybe it's a case of hanging out with a bad crowd rather than any personal racist impetus, but the intent behind those statements is clear.

[SleepingSilence]

@Garattee I'll assume this isn't just a jab at me, and just a statement that you didn't want drama. Well...I didn't want drama either. Just for the record. :P

[Garattee]

@Garattee I'll assume this isn't just a jab at me, and just a statement that you didn't want drama. Well...I didn't want drama either. Just for the record. :P

@SleepingSilence

You could have fooled me.

[pugbutter]

So you couldn't find the quote where I called him racist? Well thats cleared up then, thanks for coming clean.

@Dynamo Frokane

Where you called him racist? That's right here:

My theory is that hes went down some odd slippery slope that probably started with something mild like gamergate which lead to Mens Rights, Right Libertarianism, 'Redpill' Western Supremacy, /pol/ boards and then probably some sort of alt right persuasion.

@Dynamo Frokane

There are several others too, but they're more insinuations than direct declarations. This is the one where you say it explicitly.