Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by TheFake
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Who's up from some near future space combat in our own solar system? No warp drives or artificial gravity, just missiles, guns and lasers.

It will likely be Casual, simplified (No mucking about with orbital mechanics or managing Delta-V) and combat based. The setting will be a civil war between Earth and Mars. Depending on player count it will either be all on one side with GM controlled enemies or split between Earth and Mars with a handful of GM flavour characters.

The First Solar War

In the mid In the mid twenty second century, Mankind has spreadt its reach out across the solar system but has not yet reached the stars. The planet Mars has been made habitable through vast underground cities and is home to a great amount of industry. During this time the Inhabitants developed a desire for independance and stole a freighter, converting it into a weapons platform and sending it towards earth. For two months it bombarded cities from its orbit around the moon until it was finally destroyed. The first Solar war began. In the following year both sides began to build their space fleets, beginning with converted freighters and eventually building dedicated warships.

Technology:
At this point, mankind has moved away from using rockets to reach space and has instead employed laser propulsion to reach space. By sending up modules a new craft can be built efficiently in a matter of a handful of months. The ships themselves, in the interest of cost and weight lack any large amount of armour, preferring mobility to avoid taking damage. The weapons employed range from missiles and lasers to railguns, each with their own drawbacks. The ships themselves are propelled using highly efficient nuclear rockets. Along onboard nuclear reactors to power systems and weapons, ships have large panels to radiate waste heat into space.

Combat:
Lasers are quite inneffective at damaging enemy ships and are more likely to be found being used as point defense or to blind enemy sensors. though more efficient than today, lasers still produce as much heat in the ship firing as they do in the target ship. Missiles can hit a manouvring target after a somewhat lengthy flight time but carry only limited fuel for course adjustments. Railguns are best used on orbital installations, surface targets and at close range. Being unguided, they have little use Aside from the lasers, most hits are kill shots unless it was a glancing blow from a railgun.

There being almost no obstructions in space, an enemy can be spotted from an incredible distance away and an ship firing its engines can be detected from just about anywhere in the solar system. At the high speed that warships would meet at planning and strategy. First hits usually kill although it takes great skill to even hit with a laser considering the vast distances involved.

Info:
Characters will typically be the captains of the warships. I, The GM, will typically play the role of High Command and that of the enemy. Characters will likely die over the course of this so feel free to make more but I would like players to stick to a handful at any one time.

I'm looking for high quality posts but no real minimum post size.

Character Sheet:
Name:
Gender:
Age:
Appearance:
Bio:
Personality/Psychology:
Skillset/Occupation:
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by BigPapaBelial
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BigPapaBelial I have seen you...I have watched you...

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Hmmm I'm gonna keep an eye on this...
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by TheFake
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doesn't look like this is going anywhere fast but I've added some more info to the first post.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Tesseract
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Looks interesting- currently I'm mostly occupied with Amestris' Divus Essentia RP.
I would like to see a space-based version of that hardcore naval RP- *forgotten name*
Will check back to see if this leads anywhere.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Tearstone
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Okay, I have some questions about certain physics and limitations.

Light takes time to travel. The distance from the earth to the moon is roughly a second, but from the sun to the earth takes a little over 8 minutes.. and from earth to mars takes about 40 minutes.

LASER - light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation - Is essentially a columnated spatially and temporally coherent beam of EM radiation, usually in the infrared or ultraviolet range. Of course there are radio wave variations and the like. Granted there's little to disrupt the beam, but the lag time for the beam to travel would make super-long range shooting a virtual impossibility, say something more than 600,000 kilometers for anything smaller than a long range (intra-system ship, say designed to fly to pluto and back), unless flying a stable course in a straight line at a specific rate of travel.

Another thought is, there was recently a laser system designed that creates a laser that has the same output as the sun for a brief moment with an interesting form of optical condensing and compression. Would something not be similarly possible with military grade lasers of the day? All that much energy packed into a single shot would be nasty.

Also, what about microwave lasers?

Also, are you taking in communications and sensor lag, as well as power degradation over distance?

What kind of accelleration do missiles have available. 20g's? 50 g's? 100 g's? While it might take a laser a second or two to reach lunar distances, a missile pulling 100+ g's of acceleration could reach that distance almost as quickly, and outfitted with a nuke, or even one that splits into multiple warheads could be nasty.

Also, what about particle accelerators, or particle beams. A muon beam might be more effective against a target than a laser, and most particle beams cause a catastrophic failure of most materials they hit, while (as far as I know) inflicting little heat inclination.

Random Question - Have you ever read First Flight or the Sundowner Trilogy by Chris Claremont? (awesome series, some of this I'm actually taking notes from since it's a fairly hard sci-fi setting and similar to this setting.)
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by TheFake
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Tearstone said Light takes time to travel. The distance from the earth to the moon is roughly a second, but from the sun to the earth takes a little over 8 minutes.. and from earth to mars takes about 40 minutes.


That's right, so in a long range battle the best knowledge of an enemy position would be where they were a handful of seconds ago and laser weapons would need to have that taken into account.

Tearstone said LASER - light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation - Is essentially a columnated spatially and temporally coherent beam of EM radiation, usually in the infrared or ultraviolet range. Of course there are radio wave variations and the like. Granted there's little to disrupt the beam, but the lag time for the beam to travel would make super-long range shooting a virtual impossibility, say something more than 600,000 kilometers for anything smaller than a long range (intra-system ship, say designed to fly to pluto and back), unless flying a stable course in a straight line at a specific rate of travel.


Pretty much although a laser would reach a target at the same time as the target would see it firing. Random manouvring would be the best way to dodge lasers so it would really be down to luck. THe maximum range of a laser would be about 1 light second or 300 000km because no matter how focused a laser is, it will still diffuse enough to be ineffective after enough distance. This range still has a full second of time lag.

Tearstone said Another thought is, there was recently a laser system designed that creates a laser that has the same output as the sun for a brief moment with an interesting form of optical condensing and compression. Would something not be similarly possible with military grade lasers of the day? All that much energy packed into a single shot would be nasty.


That laser is located at the National Ignition Facility which is being used in nuclear fusion experiments and is roughly the size of a warehouse. It's also only about 50% efficient if converting energy into a laser beam, meaning 50% of the energy put into the laser is lost to heat and other reasons. It can only really be fired once a day because of the heat buildup. Lasers in that power range are used in this universe to actually launch spacecraft from the surface but would be much too large to fit to a spacecraft. Weaponized lasers would perhaps be in the 75% efficiency range and output of about 100MW.

Tearstone said Also, what about microwave lasers?


They'd work, but the best type of laser to use to damage a target would be UV light.

Tearstone said Also, are you taking in communications and sensor lag, as well as power degradation over distance?


Using directional transmitters, liekly lasers, degradation likely wouldn't be too much of an issue though time lag would still be present.

Tearstone said What kind of accelleration do missiles have available. 20g's? 50 g's? 100 g's? While it might take a laser a second or two to reach lunar distances, a missile pulling 100+ g's of acceleration could reach that distance almost as quickly, and outfitted with a nuke, or even one that splits into multiple warheads could be nasty.


Even pulling 100Gs a missile would still take over 10 minutes to travel a single light second. Missiles are useful because they can track a target and time lag doesn't really have an effect on their accuracy. 20Gs might be better. Raching a target at a lower speed makes it easier to adjust its course. I figure that they'd fire their engines once to get up to speed and then only as needed to make course adjustments.

Nuclear explosions in space aren't really that effective. Without atmosphere there's no blast wave and no heat. The only effect would be through radiation which spacecraft spacecraft would be shielded against anyway. A nuke would have to be quite close to have a major effect other than disrupting communications.

Multiple missiles would be quite effective although there would be ample time to shoot them all down so more is better.

Tearstone said Also, what about particle accelerators, or particle beams. A muon beam might be more effective against a target than a laser, and most particle beams cause a catastrophic failure of most materials they hit, while (as far as I know) inflicting little heat inclination.


Particle accelerators suffer the same problems as lasers.

Tearstone said Random Question - Have you ever read First Flight or the Sundowner Trilogy by Chris Claremont? (awesome series, some of this I'm actually taking notes from since it's a fairly hard sci-fi setting and similar to this setting.)


No. This is actually mostly inspired by the story O Homeworld My Heart written by Angry scotsman 1989 on the alternatehistory.com forums.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Tearstone
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All good responses. I've always found it funny that people seem to think that nukes in space are still as nasty as they are on planetside. The thing is, in a vaccum there's little to nothing to compress, so no compression wave really. What is, happens to be significantly reduced. Thermal shock is also greatly reduced as there's not a lot of convective or conductive heat, and most ships are well shielded against heat anyway. Most of the radiation would be shielded out too, but the EM pulse would be nasty for computers. Still you don't want one going off close.

Great example is the newer Battlestar Galactica series. The Galactica had at least one nuke go off in it's face, and really wasn't too bad for the wear. EM shielding/hardening can rule out the rest of the significant effects of a nuke.

Your answers make me happy, and yeah, I agree that dealing with Delta V and orbital mechanics and the like might be more sciency and more of a pain in the neck than most players want to deal with. I just wanted to see where you had in mind on the scale of hard science vs science fantasy you wanted things. I like where they are. XD
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Assallya
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I'm not sure a fully realistic, or "hard science", space war would work in our solar system, not in a heroic fashion. After some thought I figure such a war would be done in a manner similar to the submarines warfare of World War II. Space is vast and ridiculously easy to hide in. Ships would likely have numerous stealth systems to reduce the radar profiles and heat sinks to reduce their thermal signatures. It would be a game of cat and mouse around significant facilities spread throughout the solar system.

Further, if I were to build my own ship for fighting in space it would involve all my weapons systems being satellites. It would ensure that if my weapons, the most likely to be detected via their projectiles being traced back to source, are attacked and not my people. They'd also need no life support systems, radiation shielding or other systems to provide additional mass. The command ship would control these via tight beam laser transmission. Depending on enemy technology I'd probably throw in interceptor and attack fighter craft, mostly for scouting and scout interception, unmanned so that they could do make G-Turns that would turn a human into paste.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Tearstone
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All very viable strategies. I would have scanning drones/probes spread out to provide spherical coverage, as well as provide me some remote weapons platforms. I would also leave automated weapons platforms floating out in areas, which some might consider mines... but I prefer to think of them more like unmanned AI drones.

I don't think the goal is to go super hard science, but just more realistic than say.. Star Wars.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Assallya
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That does make sense. I miss the X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter series. That was good. You could coast on inertia, turn ninety degrees and unload your blasters into the side of a ship. Something I've never seen them do in the movies.

At this point, as you almost suggested earlier, I figure you might as well run the entire thing using Battlestar Galactica as a model. I love Macross for that respect. Fighters that fly towards capitol ships, land on their hulls, taking out surface systems like sensors, turrets and the like while using the only cover there is in space, that of the very ship they were attacking, as cover.
Hidden 11 yrs ago Post by Tearstone
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Loved X-wing and Tie Fighter, and X-wing Vs Tie never got to play but I figure I would love it too. I did used to play Tachyon: The Fringe. If you're looking for good fighter action, you might try the Evochron series. Also, Elite: Dangerous comes out next year, and CCP the makers of Eve Online are working on EVE Valkarie, which is their space superiority fighter sim.

BSG's setting, as far as space physics, and combat in space and all was done really well, I think. There are things you can do in a Viper that an X-wing never seemed designed to do, even though they have similar aesthetics, and fuselages and stuff. The way they made use of RCS thrust vectors was cool. I might have to watch it again, now that we've been talking about it.
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