OOC Gender Restrictions

[Visionaryness]

Actually the word choice is very crucial here. I didn't think he was saying that my choice and decisions were wrong, I just didn't want to be lumped in, even accidentally, with the kind of people he is talking about. His poor choice of wording implied that all straight men looking to play smut feel the way he was describing, when we do not. I felt it important to clarify because I don't feel that way. If he had added the word 'some', as in 'some straight men', or specified in some other way, there would have been no need for me to comment.

[Dolerman]

The people in here criticizing role-play discrimination on the basis of gender in Romantic or Erotic RPs. Probably have racial, height or body type preferences in real life.

EDIT: That is to say, there may be no good reason to have said preferences but its pointless to try and ask people not to have them.

[Darcel]

<Snipped quote by Hank>

but what you're saying sounds a lot like homophobia instead.

@Visionaryness

<Snipped quote by Hank>

a lot like homophobia instead.

@Visionaryness

[Dolerman]

When there is a brewing shitstorm but its not happening in my thread for once.

[AlteredTundra]

@Dynamo Frokane There's a first time for everything.

[DeadDrop]

When there is a brewing shitstorm but its not happening in my thread for once.

@Dynamo Frokane

The thread is on track so...?

[Cyndyr]

To start off, I'm really sorry to learn that you got abused when younger. So my sympathies go to you.

That said, this is a reason (I never thought of) as to why people may be selective and both sexist. As you said you were wary of makes, and as much as that is a reason there are 100 more that fit this category of thinking and are not necessarily sexist. Yes it may limits one's options but there's no point in placing your personal self in an uncomfortable state just because others say that you must treat all equally.

@NuttsnBolts

Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate the sentiment.

With that said, I don't necessarily think that many people consider this possibility nor do I find it to be sexist. Narrow-minded, perhaps, but not sexist. I never once held hatred for the male gender and even despise those who preach that women should. In my case, I just found them a tad bit scary when I was younger and uneducated in the fact that people can be abusive regardless of gender.

I should also state that I think it's a little too much of a jump to imply that people solely looking to Roleplay with one gender or another are inherently sexist (though I won't deny that the possibility could certainly exist).

The people in here criticizing role-play discrimination on the basis of gender in Romantic or Erotic RPs. Probably have racial, height or body type preferences in real life.

@Dynamo Frokane

I think this is a fairly sound point to keep in mind as well. We have preferences. It happens in both real life and in Roleplay. We're allowed to have them just as people are allowed to dislike that we have them.

[Song Book]

I kinda skipped about on this thread as I was getting bored, but I always saw, Male looking for female, or every variation of it as a sort of, I play male characters, Looking for female characters. And even on posts where, the few times I've done 1v1's with a dude character, the person had posted " looking for a Dude." or those variations, And I said I can do a dude. They accepted me.

THis isn't meant to say that some people aren't trying to discriminate people in their rp's but i'm pretty sure the majority are only looking for characters to fill their slots.

The part where they may be looking for " female roleplayers" could be based on past experiences where a male roleplayer did not do a well job expressing the character. Or it could be based on the presumption that a female roleplayer would know how to play a female character better, due to being one and shit. Though I'm sure they wouldn't kill all discussion if the person interested in the rp can play a female well and is perhaps male. Which is not sexist but just a precaution to make sure only those qualified try for the role.
I know on one of my very old interest checks I had a " looking for male" on it, cause i only did female characters at the time. Did i actually care/know about the true genders of my partners. Nope. THey could play a dude. I didn't care past that. ( Ahh young book.)
All I see this as is a matter of personal preference and choice.

If you don't want to rp with someone because their interest check's title/description happens to state something you disagree with. Good for you.
If you don't care and can play the part. Good for you.

If you want to specify that you want female partners because of some notion, actual sexism, nervousness, or just for precaution. Good for you.

If you don't care about that sort of stuff. Good for you.

Why is everyone jumpy about stuff that doesn't really matter in the first place? It's just an interest check.

[SleepingSilence]

When there is a brewing shitstorm but its not happening in my thread for once.

@Dynamo Frokane

*waves* What took you so long?



Cheeto?

[Dolerman]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

The thread is on track so...?

@DeadDrop

Yeah it is, on track topics and shit storms arent mutually exclusive, I learned this from my thread the hard way.

[Damiann47]

Welp, before this all breaks down into gifs and eventually memes, figure I'll throw my thoughts in here. This is also a chance to actually do something rather than endlessly bump my 1x1 thread, and otherwise lurk silently.

Right, so to probably rehash everything that's been said after I skimmed through thread while paying half attention, frankly I don't really care about my partners' real life gender. Nada, as what's been said it isn't like we're on a dating site, ya know? So what does it matter to me? If the RP is going well and everyone is happy, well... hurray! Sure, we're not here to date, but I can easily see a romantic relationship popping up, then genders matter in that case, yet that's the case for really any actual relationship, so its a no brainer then.

That said I'll admit that I sometimes get that sort of response of "Oh shit, he's a dude and I'm a dude, yet romance/smut/romance&smut is happening in the RP!" Then I basically talk to myself by asking "And?" Sure I have these kind thoughts time to time, but its a gut reaction more than anything, in reality I don't care. To this end I can understand those that truly do care, although only to a point.

I'll also say there have been numerous times when I've looked at a thread that was very promising only to find that I'm not the right gender in real life. It sucks, we both get to miss out on a potentially fun RP that will never be, and perhaps I could proceed by never bringing my gender up, I just don't want to do it, partly because I like to learn more about my partners, so that won't ever work out. In the end, we both lose, oh well, however I don't want to deal with any drama, and its a matter of respecting the other person's wishes.

---

@Drache Also wanted to address you directly because I feel... obligated I guess? No idea if that's the right word, but that's what I'm sticking with. So yeah, I respect you greatly and your posts are always a joy to read, you're one of my all time favorite RP partners without a doubt, however in this situation I don't fully agree with you. You know what? Yeah I agree that it is illogical to care about a partner's real life gender, and the limitation on potential RPs is a undeniable negative, I hope I've made both of those thought clear so far. I also think its too closed minded to declare someone's desire to RP with a specific gender is wholly based in sexism, or to engage in slimy behavior.

Yes, those are definitely reasons that exist, however I personally put more weight to the comfort argument. I mean you know that I put comfort before everything else in roleplaying. I WANT to make sure everyone involved is comfortable and happy, then everything else is secondary. Long as someone isn't on a crusade of sorts to enforce their will, telling people that "No, you can't RP a heterosexual relationship if both people writing are the same gender." that they truly fixated on generally being a shitty human being like that, but if instead its a personal decision they made that only applies to themselves, then that's okay.

Now, I honestly cannot come up with anything to counter your argument of discrimination, like to say no to someone of a certain color isn't okay, absolutely not. Along those lines, being closed off to RPing with a person of a certain gender is like any other determination, however to a different degree I feel in this particular case. There is no malice (Usually) when someone declares this, again provided they don't attempt to enforce this on other people. Yeah, it has roots in sexism I'd say, however its a gray zone more than anything, yes I do believe intent has a lot to do with it. Suppose I also give people the benefit of the doubt that their true intentions aren't to knock their rocks off to a RP in great part of their partner's gender or, ya know try to engage in some unwanted real life relations, among other scummy reasoning.

Ultimately though I don't think its useless to talk about this, hell no. Its always good to discuss everything and anything, that to say nothing would be a disservice. I don't believe the intent has ever been to change minds either for you, I think you've said this, but its sorta hard to find where. Anyway I seriously feel like I'm rambling now, and I honestly didn't add anything new I believe, however I just wanted to get in on the conversation.

(Also I apologize if I got anything wrong, or whatnot. Writing this late at night on a whim, and while tired makes me feel like I missed something. Maybe I shouldn't bother, but after I said its important to talk that would be a bit hypocritical.)

[Dion]

You know a thread's blown up when Odin joins the fray.

@Ammokkx

Stumbled upon it, and RPG as a community consists of individuals I'm very interested in (as in, the sociology of our community, and the psychology of the people here) so I was naturally drawn to it. I don't think it's blown up - people saying this is a shitstorm have obviously never seen a real one. In fact, for all my annoyance with what @Drache was saying + how she said it, I think both of us maintained a relatively decent posture. Nobody called each other names that were over the top. So, while I appreciate that you remember my name, I don't think the threads blown up and I certainly doubt it was me that did it.

I don't think people are wrong with it having roots in sexism, but I disagree on using that term. I think misguided or ignorant might be better, as sexism is a pretty strong accusation to hurl at someone in which they will be on their most defensive once accused. It doesn't breed healthy conversation in my eyes, and especially not with the crowd that likes to frequent these threads (no offense to anyone meant by that).

@Ammokkx

Taking sexism at it's most literal form to exist, then yes, you can call this sexism. But, if we did that to discrimination, racism, etc. we could shut down literally all arguments about this by throwing a dictionary at someone. But we're humans - and words have connotations. See where I'm going with this? Calling someone a sexist isn't just going to recite a strong reaction from them, it's also just plain ignorant of what you're actually saying.

I'm with @Song Book on this too, though. Most often I interpret it as 'looking for x-sex character' and not my own sex. I've already approached people before asking to RP even if my sex didn't align, but I could play a character of that sex. Never was a problem. The problem I always ran into is that people who specify what gender they want for a partner are usually just really really bad roleplayers.

Additionally it's none of your fucking business why people look for specific sexes in partners, whether it be the character or the person themselves. Maybe the reason is that they get a really big boner from knowing there's a woman on the other side. Maybe they legit feel more comfortable. Maybe the reason is they wanna date a roleplayer, maybe the reason is they wanna talk about girl/guy stuff. Who the fuck cares. I don't because I know it's not my business.

[Ellri]

hmm... plausible reason to request a certain gender from a writing partner that is "valid".

Considering that we do not know the specific requirements of the one(s) making the request, we cannot guarantee that it will be sufficient, but here goes:

Reason #1:
Learning more about how one individual of that specific gender thinks
_{This reason would be more typical for one gender desiring another, but it can also fit in with those curious about their own gender.}

Reason #2:
Fulfilling fantasies.
_{This is where someone might want to test out their social skills, maybe even develop a relationship that becomes more than merely RP. It might pan out, and it might fail. Just like "real" relationships in the physical world.}

What we do note is a general tendency here for some to force their morals on others. If you do not agree wholeheartedly with them, then you are to expect them insulting you, claiming you are one or more of these: sexist, bigoted, racist, homophobic, etc.

There are male players who play females excellently, and there are those that fail spectacularly at it. There are players whose physical gender is a matter for discussion. That is fine.

If we were to start a smut-based RP, we would naturally prefer for it to be done with someone who has the appropriate gender to match our sexual interests. Not because they're "better" at playing a gender, but because we believe the purpose of smut is to explore sexual interests. If that should happen to somehow insult someone who does not fit in with said parameters, then that really isn't our problem.

Were we to be in a smutty RP with someone and discover that the other player(s) were not the physical gender(s) we prefer, we would probably be disappointed, on account of our desires not being matched. That is our choice. However, were we to be in such an RP with someone and they portrayed a certain gender in a way that did not let us see that it was not the truth, then we would probably be impressed. It would be well played. We value honesty though, so deviations from desires like that would probably also be dishonest, which is not something we respect all that much. It is simple fact.

---

We have not written much in the field of 1x1 where acts of reproduction are either described or referenced, so the situations above are all hypothetical. Until someone proves they do not deserve what we consider basic respect, we offer them such. We do not try to force our views on others, not do we blame those who hold on to different opinions. People are not the same, nor should they be.

If it had not been for the fact that we do not feel like trying to plan another RP right now, we could be tempted to start a 1x1 interest check with highly specific requirements for the player(s) and for their character(s). Why? Because some narrowminded people would get really angry at seeing such even as it would tell possible partner(s) just what we're looking for at this particular time. Two birds with one stone, really.

To give an example of what we could have asked for in such:
We desire a straight female player with brown or sandy blonde hair of average build of above 22 but below 30 years of age who is not neurotypical, but instead has a diagnosis like Asperger's Syndrome or something else within the autism spectrum. Intelligence must be high (at least in the top two percentile fraction and she may not currently be pregnant with an artifically engineered embryo created by a genetics research lab dealing in illegal experiments. She must be willing to become part of such experiments, though. She must be willing be asked play a male half-giant, half-orc barbarian obsessed with the decapitation of halflings. Not that the RP will concern such, but she must be willing to play that.

Is that an appropriate request, or does that anger several people here? Even if you do not agree with it, would you accept someone having such desires, even if they do not match your own?

[Dion]

To give an example of what we could have asked for in such:
We desire a straight female player with brown og sandy blonde hair of average build of above 22 but below 30 years of age who is not neurotypical, but instead has a diagnosis like Asperger's Syndrome or something else within the autism spectrum. Intelligence must be high (at least in the top two percentile fraction and she may not currently be pregnant with an artifically engineered embryo created by a genetics research lab dealing in illegal experiments. She must be willing to become part of such experiments, though. She must be willing be asked play a male half-giant, half-orc barbarian obsessed with the decapitation of halflings. Not that the RP will concern such, but she must be willing to play that.

Is that an appropriate request, or does that anger several people here? Even if you do not agree with it, would you accept someone having such desires, even if they do not match your own?

@Ellri

MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL YOU FUCKING RACIST SEXIST DISCRIMINATORY SCUM. WHAT ABOUT THOSE WOMEN WITH ARTIFICIALLY ENGINEERD EMBRYO'S REEEEEEEEEEE

[Sven]

At the risk of being the one who sounds like a broken record "being uncomfortable" with RPing with a certain gender is NOT an excuse. "Being uncomfortable" is a reason people give that sounds better than the real reason they don't want a certain gender partner. I think my favourite part about this conversation so far is the steadfast inability of people to volunteer a real reason.

You're uncomfortable because...why? Because you're a dude and you don't like the idea of doing sexy RPs with another dude? This is some subtle way of adding #NOHOMO to your list of rules? Or is it because you genuinely don't think a female is capable of playing a male character (or vice versa)? That's not an excuse either, because now you're making assumptions about my abilities without even knowing me.

Would it be okay to add these to my preferences:

-No black or brown people, I'm only "comfortable" writing with white people. (Read: I'm racist and if you Skype call me my Nazi flag will be on the wall behind me.)
-No fags/lesbos. (Read: Sorry, I can't risk sexy times with characters played by non-straights because I need to know there's a possibility your jollies are getting off on our RP.)
- No Muslims or Jews. (Read: Once again, I'm racist and also a bigot.)
- No cripples or spazoid autistics. (Read: I'm an ableist fuck who can't handle the thought of my RP partner being neuro-divergent or blind or in a wheelchair or something.)
- No fatties. (Read: This actually matters somehow because I just hate fat people.)

Did you like all of those? Then why is "Male partners only" or "No dudes" okay?

-No dudes. (Read: Because I'm a dude and I don't want to think that my dick is smaller than yours.) <- This is pretty much what I put in the blank when I see people say "I'm uncomfortable with writing with other men."

((This also brings up an interesting point. Why is it only straight people who do this? I have never met a gay guy on here who was like 'No, I don't want to write with chicks for my MxM plot' or a lesbian who was all 'No, a guy can't write a F for my FxF'. Straight people, get your shit together.))

@Drache

What have you been smoking? It is perfectly natural for a man to want to roleplay with a female and for a female to want to roleplay with a man. Hell, a gay person may want to roleplay with a person of the same gender. It is none of your business, maybe they plan on having a romantic angle and they are just uncomfortable if they had to roleplay with a person of the same gender. So, what? You're not forced to roleplay with them or forced to interact with them. It is not remotely about roleplaying abilities, you can be an amazing writer but someone might not want to roleplay with you because they want to roleplay with another gender.

Also, if someone doesn't want to roleplay with someone based on anything, it's their choice. As ridicilous as it is to compare religion, disability and race to wanting to roleplay with a specific gender.

[BrokenPromise]

It seems to me that after reading this topic, the reasons why people do this is to elevate their level of comfort, or fantasize. How okay people are with OOC gender restrictions really stems from how acceptable they feel those reasons are for bringing out gender restrictions.

[Cyndyr]

To give an example of what we could have asked for in such:
We desire a straight female player with brown or sandy blonde hair of average build of above 22 but below 30 years of age who is not neurotypical, but instead has a diagnosis like Asperger's Syndrome or something else within the autism spectrum. Intelligence must be high (at least in the top two percentile fraction and she may not currently be pregnant with an artifically engineered embryo created by a genetics research lab dealing in illegal experiments. She must be willing to become part of such experiments, though. She must be willing be asked play a male half-giant, half-orc barbarian obsessed with the decapitation of halflings. Not that the RP will concern such, but she must be willing to play that.

Is that an appropriate request, or does that anger several people here? Even if you do not agree with it, would you accept someone having such desires, even if they do not match your own?

@Ellri

To be honest, I would find this to be a little bizarre and extremely specific, but like many others have already stated, I would also think that it isn't any of my business. For that reason, no, I don't inherently think this is sexist nor would it anger me in the slightest.

[SleepingSilence]

To give an example of what we could have asked for in such:
We desire a straight female player with brown or sandy blonde hair of average build of above 22 but below 30 years of age who is not neurotypical, but instead has a diagnosis like Asperger's Syndrome or something else within the autism spectrum. Intelligence must be high (at least in the top two percentile fraction and she may not currently be pregnant with an artifically engineered embryo created by a genetics research lab dealing in illegal experiments. She must be willing to become part of such experiments, though. She must be willing be asked play a male half-giant, half-orc barbarian obsessed with the decapitation of halflings. Not that the RP will concern such, but she must be willing to play that.

Is that an appropriate request, or does that anger several people here? Even if you do not agree with it, would you accept someone having such desires, even if they do not match your own?

@Ellri

My problem with that is, it's a bad joke if that's a non-serious thing. Otherwise, they're basically making every decision for the other player and they might as well just write a story themselves at that point...Screw what gender you demand, if the character I'm playing is also fully dictated by someone else, this is no longer a collab and now you're just being forced to write half of their fiction commission.

Also you should never demand selection/be selective if you can't proof read. Good rule of thumb.

*artificially

[Dion]

<Snipped quote by Ellri>

My problem with that is, it's a bad joke if that's a non-serious thing. Otherwise, they're basically making every decision for the other player and they might as well just write a story themselves at that point...Screw what gender you demand, if the character I'm playing is also fully dictated by someone else, this is no longer a collab and now you're just being forced to write half of their fiction commission.

@SleepingSilence

...

Also you should never demand selection/be selective if you can't proof read. Good rule of thumb.

*artificially

@SleepingSilence

Don't see how these two integers (selectivity vs. proof reading) are correlated. Explain.

[Ruby]

What the fu...

Just found this thread. Save me.