I dunno. I know more people equals more variability and more chances for an RP to die, but beyond that, what are the other factors that contribute to the death of an RP?
I dunno. I know more people equals more variability and more chances for an RP to die, but beyond that, what are the other factors that contribute to the death of an RP?
Dwindling interest, ghosting, OOC arguments, people finding themselves super busy, etc.
Just a few of them.
1x Thank
BrokenPromise With Rightious Hands
Member
Seen
5 hrs ago
On the player's side, drama between players, shifting interests, and life are some reasons why they stop showing up at an RP. but an RP can survive without it's entire core cast most of the time. I find that genuinely it's an inexperienced/overwhelmed GM who's made a few critical mistakes or has simply given up on their idea.
I was in an RP that was struggling to get posts. Some of the players left, and the RP went 2 weeks without seeing a post. I was interested, about 3-4 other guys were interested, but the GM pulled the plug because the pace was slower than what he wanted.
I also witnessed a GM chase away his core users by being extremely critical of their writing style. It wasn't even an advanced RP! Needless to say, the RP didn't last 2 weeks.
A classic example of a GM setting themselves up for early RP death was making an RP that required two writers to work in tandem with each other to get anywhere. Even if you get 10 players, you just need 2 or 3 to leave to end your RP.
That's not to say that it's always the GM's fault, just that they usually have the opportunity to turn things around provided they set up their RP the right way. But I'm going to say the biggest killer for RPs is probably...
Poor communication.
I was in an RP that was struggling to get posts. Some of the players left, and the RP went 2 weeks without seeing a post. I was interested, about 3-4 other guys were interested, but the GM pulled the plug because the pace was slower than what he wanted.
I also witnessed a GM chase away his core users by being extremely critical of their writing style. It wasn't even an advanced RP! Needless to say, the RP didn't last 2 weeks.
A classic example of a GM setting themselves up for early RP death was making an RP that required two writers to work in tandem with each other to get anywhere. Even if you get 10 players, you just need 2 or 3 to leave to end your RP.
That's not to say that it's always the GM's fault, just that they usually have the opportunity to turn things around provided they set up their RP the right way. But I'm going to say the biggest killer for RPs is probably...
Poor communication.
rebornfan320 Always looking for RP partners
Member
Seen
1 yr ago
Well in my experience before coming here I can say it was communication, also sometimes one partner judging another based on the post and this one gets me a lot; blocks and drops without a reason. I had roleplays that lasted a long time until the partner stopped coming on and they died that way. Also lack of interest in what the other wants when it comes to a conversation about what the other wants out of the roleplay.
HowlsOfWinter sad but rad
Member
Seen
2 yrs ago
Lack of communication. It's important to form good relationships with the people you're roleplaying with. It's easier to keep the RP alive when you're friends with them. So communication is important, and conversations don't always have to be about the RP itself. Get to know eachother. IC and OOC.
Lack of commitment. Another major thing that contributes to the death of roleplays is the lack of commitment. We all lose motivation sometimes, but if we're commited, we won't quit despite the lack of motivation. At the very beginning, you have to state what you're expecting from the players. Let them know that you're looking for commited players only, and if they can't commit, they shouldn't join.
Different schedules and pacing. Life gets in the way all the time, so establish sets of rules when it comes to posting. Find a certain pace which everyone can agree to. There are players who want to post every few days, but there are players who can wait 3 weeks for a post. It doesn't matter, as long as you all have an agreement.
Bad writers. They ruin the experience for other players. Players don't have to be super good at writing, as long as they know the basics. (Grammar, spelling, punctuations, etc.) Always have standards. Let the players know what you're looking for at the beginning, don't criticize their writing when you've already accepted them into the roleplay.
Underdeveloped ideas. Flesh out your ideas before posting them. Sometimes, we get a good idea and we want to turn it into an RP immediately, but don't. You need to plan it out first. Flesh out the plot, settings, etc. You need to figure out how you want the RP to progress. You can't just think of a "starter" and an "end goal", you need to plan out how you'll get to the end goal while keeping the story fun and interesting. Always have a plan. Some GM's think that a "premise" and "goal" will be enough to keep the rp running. Rarely happens.
Boring characters. GM's shouldn't accept applications just because they feel bad. They should pick interesting characters which will fit in well with the story.
Poor GMing skills. GMs must always notify their players and communicate with them. They must have everything planned out, etc. I don't think I need to explain this further, we all know what bad GMs are like.
Dwindling interests. But this wouldn't happen if we all considered everything that was written above.
Lack of commitment. Another major thing that contributes to the death of roleplays is the lack of commitment. We all lose motivation sometimes, but if we're commited, we won't quit despite the lack of motivation. At the very beginning, you have to state what you're expecting from the players. Let them know that you're looking for commited players only, and if they can't commit, they shouldn't join.
Different schedules and pacing. Life gets in the way all the time, so establish sets of rules when it comes to posting. Find a certain pace which everyone can agree to. There are players who want to post every few days, but there are players who can wait 3 weeks for a post. It doesn't matter, as long as you all have an agreement.
Bad writers. They ruin the experience for other players. Players don't have to be super good at writing, as long as they know the basics. (Grammar, spelling, punctuations, etc.) Always have standards. Let the players know what you're looking for at the beginning, don't criticize their writing when you've already accepted them into the roleplay.
Underdeveloped ideas. Flesh out your ideas before posting them. Sometimes, we get a good idea and we want to turn it into an RP immediately, but don't. You need to plan it out first. Flesh out the plot, settings, etc. You need to figure out how you want the RP to progress. You can't just think of a "starter" and an "end goal", you need to plan out how you'll get to the end goal while keeping the story fun and interesting. Always have a plan. Some GM's think that a "premise" and "goal" will be enough to keep the rp running. Rarely happens.
Boring characters. GM's shouldn't accept applications just because they feel bad. They should pick interesting characters which will fit in well with the story.
Poor GMing skills. GMs must always notify their players and communicate with them. They must have everything planned out, etc. I don't think I need to explain this further, we all know what bad GMs are like.
Dwindling interests. But this wouldn't happen if we all considered everything that was written above.
3x Like
Sierra The Dark Lord
Member
Seen
2 yrs ago
@HowlsOfWinter You actually bring up several really good points I want to comment on with some experience from past projects I've been a part of, have attempted myself (all ultimately failing) as well as my current project that is so far alive and well much to my incredible satisfaction.
Lack of Communication/Poor GMing skills: Specifically this combines to create an incident of a GM playing "I've got a secret" with relevant lore material. In my dealings with this case, it killed off about half the initial interest before things were even underway, and the limited players afterwards led to dwindling interest and poor pacing. If you're ever GMing, don't fucking do this. If you have lore material, it should be written somewhere visible unless there is a plot-relevant reason for it to be hidden. And if a player unknowingly contradicts that lore, then it's time to reveal the information since the player is clearly trying to go down that road. Players are not going to play 20 questions with you to make their CSs work.
Underdeveloped Ideas: This needs no further elaboration directly. I will say that this guide to GMing should be considered required reading and was very helpful to me. I also wanna indirectly elaborate on the related idea of badly represented ideas. This actually was an early failing of mine in the past where I didn't properly represent an idea in the interest check, which resulted in even worse player losses moving to the OOC than average. This ended up being a deathblow to my motivation and I ended up abandoning the project. I may revisit it sometime in the future.
Boring Characters: It fucking sucks to have to tell someone a straight up no. I had to do it three times with Tear the World Down. It never gets any less unfun or any easier to say "I can't approve this for X, Y, and/or Z reason(s)." It was even worse when I had to tell someone their entire concept was fundamentally incompatible with what I was trying to cultivate ... because I know if I heard that I would filter it as "all the work you put into this really thorough CS was for absolutely fuck-all." But sometimes it has to be done and I think that's what separates good GMs from bad GMs: having the backbone to do it when you need to.
Lack of Communication/Poor GMing skills: Specifically this combines to create an incident of a GM playing "I've got a secret" with relevant lore material. In my dealings with this case, it killed off about half the initial interest before things were even underway, and the limited players afterwards led to dwindling interest and poor pacing. If you're ever GMing, don't fucking do this. If you have lore material, it should be written somewhere visible unless there is a plot-relevant reason for it to be hidden. And if a player unknowingly contradicts that lore, then it's time to reveal the information since the player is clearly trying to go down that road. Players are not going to play 20 questions with you to make their CSs work.
Underdeveloped Ideas: This needs no further elaboration directly. I will say that this guide to GMing should be considered required reading and was very helpful to me. I also wanna indirectly elaborate on the related idea of badly represented ideas. This actually was an early failing of mine in the past where I didn't properly represent an idea in the interest check, which resulted in even worse player losses moving to the OOC than average. This ended up being a deathblow to my motivation and I ended up abandoning the project. I may revisit it sometime in the future.
Boring Characters: It fucking sucks to have to tell someone a straight up no. I had to do it three times with Tear the World Down. It never gets any less unfun or any easier to say "I can't approve this for X, Y, and/or Z reason(s)." It was even worse when I had to tell someone their entire concept was fundamentally incompatible with what I was trying to cultivate ... because I know if I heard that I would filter it as "all the work you put into this really thorough CS was for absolutely fuck-all." But sometimes it has to be done and I think that's what separates good GMs from bad GMs: having the backbone to do it when you need to.
3x Like
NuttsnBolts
Moderator
Seen
13 days ago
Lots of good points but ask yourself firstly if it was the players or the GMs that were the main factors in the RP's death. Knowing where the trouble lies is knowing where you can address the concerns and if you need to apply remedies such as additional GMs, secondary characters, a discussion on plot, recruitment, or even the last resort case of a reboot/sequel.
One RP that I've been a part of is an RP that's gone over 2 years and several variations. We've added and removed players, rebooted into a failed attempt, and even had the original GM leave us, but the story has kept on going because the 5 of us have turned our characters into personalities through dedication (even at one stage I left the RP and returned with a fresh character to rejoin with). This is a rare case, but it has worked because as players we made an effort to help each other out and build the world as much as we could.
You need to listen to your GM, but your GM needs to listen to you as well. Too often I see RPs die because of a lack of communication and it can be because of silly reasons too.
One RP that I've been a part of is an RP that's gone over 2 years and several variations. We've added and removed players, rebooted into a failed attempt, and even had the original GM leave us, but the story has kept on going because the 5 of us have turned our characters into personalities through dedication (even at one stage I left the RP and returned with a fresh character to rejoin with). This is a rare case, but it has worked because as players we made an effort to help each other out and build the world as much as we could.
You need to listen to your GM, but your GM needs to listen to you as well. Too often I see RPs die because of a lack of communication and it can be because of silly reasons too.
2x Like
Lady Absinthia ⚘ Blossoming ⚘
Member
Seen
1 mo ago
Most points of why Rp's die has been addressed, I touch on those and several others here - Gming 101, as well as some ways to correct it.
The biggest thing is not why an Rp dies but when it dies is the person looking at it objectively to find the moment it went to hell and needed life support. Reason I say this is because if you can't look at it that way and find the reason you can't learn. You can't change what went wrong and are just bound to make the same mistakes over and over again. (Which I have seen happen countless times with some GM's. It is the same 1 thing every time one of their rps' goes to that large RP Grave Yard.)
The biggest thing is not why an Rp dies but when it dies is the person looking at it objectively to find the moment it went to hell and needed life support. Reason I say this is because if you can't look at it that way and find the reason you can't learn. You can't change what went wrong and are just bound to make the same mistakes over and over again. (Which I have seen happen countless times with some GM's. It is the same 1 thing every time one of their rps' goes to that large RP Grave Yard.)
The Harbinger of Ferocity
Member
Seen
3 yrs ago
The majority of cases I have witnessed or experience regarding game death can be cut down to two major, critical components. These two elements are relatively clean, solid deathblows to a roleplay and they are complacency and excuses. Both are detestable things in a social game, inherently poisonous. While there are other factors outlined above, my experience has always been that other players become complacent and or then develop excuses.
What do I mean by complacency? Say that a topic has a new post in it and there is something a character can reasonable do about it or interact that would in some way further the story and the plot, even individual plot and development. Unless it would be all fluff for the sake of posting why not post? But complacency is not just limited there either, it incorporates the issue of having a post due by a player in some time and them repeatedly putting it off, telling themselves, "Oh, I can write that later." or "I don't feel like writing now... tomorrow then..." This becomes a habit of procrastination and does nothing but infect the topic with that mindset. When is a tomorrow that never comes? One day becomes two, two three, four, five and so on. Some players may leave you behind, but generally people become complacent themselves when they bear witness to complacency and that others might excuse it.
What comes next is a component of the never ending issue of procrastination, in the form of excuse. Everyone on the forum and the world at large has some extent of a life to attend to, one good, bad, or mostly likely somewhere in between filled with trial and complication. We all exist in this world and we all are, by the numbers, adults or young adults. Excuses are a form of social token or currency, something dropped into the awaiting hands of others when something promised to be done or realistically due is not. Generally people accept them, because in turn they produce these coins themselves and hand them off; some have more, some have less, some accept more, some render more. The issue with this is, is that everyone has them. They are plentiful and thus devalued, meaning that an excuse is little more than a hollow admission one did not budget sufficiently or extend the effort or time to compensate for a shortage of opportunity.
A post takes anywhere from some fifteen minutes to at most, absolute most realistically, an hour to write in one of the most advanced sections or topics. For the majority, those casual, I believe it is fair to say a post will take only some fifteen to thirty minutes if one sits down and dedicates to it there and then. It might not be the best work, it might even be subpar for your standard, but roleplaying is a social exercise. People have lives of their own and expectations, failing this has greater consequences than the self. In fact, I would wager the sheer amount of complacency and excuses, most infamously of "I was busy.", to be the major negative factor in most topics if I were one to bet.
However, that is just my experience and I have a very low threshold, abysmally low one, for tolerance with complacent people or the excuses of man. I do everything in my power to strike back against it, to the point I will tolerate and turn blind eye to other issues that are more minor so long as it keeps the activity going. Though ultimately those are the two consistent killers of topics I have met first hand.
What do I mean by complacency? Say that a topic has a new post in it and there is something a character can reasonable do about it or interact that would in some way further the story and the plot, even individual plot and development. Unless it would be all fluff for the sake of posting why not post? But complacency is not just limited there either, it incorporates the issue of having a post due by a player in some time and them repeatedly putting it off, telling themselves, "Oh, I can write that later." or "I don't feel like writing now... tomorrow then..." This becomes a habit of procrastination and does nothing but infect the topic with that mindset. When is a tomorrow that never comes? One day becomes two, two three, four, five and so on. Some players may leave you behind, but generally people become complacent themselves when they bear witness to complacency and that others might excuse it.
What comes next is a component of the never ending issue of procrastination, in the form of excuse. Everyone on the forum and the world at large has some extent of a life to attend to, one good, bad, or mostly likely somewhere in between filled with trial and complication. We all exist in this world and we all are, by the numbers, adults or young adults. Excuses are a form of social token or currency, something dropped into the awaiting hands of others when something promised to be done or realistically due is not. Generally people accept them, because in turn they produce these coins themselves and hand them off; some have more, some have less, some accept more, some render more. The issue with this is, is that everyone has them. They are plentiful and thus devalued, meaning that an excuse is little more than a hollow admission one did not budget sufficiently or extend the effort or time to compensate for a shortage of opportunity.
A post takes anywhere from some fifteen minutes to at most, absolute most realistically, an hour to write in one of the most advanced sections or topics. For the majority, those casual, I believe it is fair to say a post will take only some fifteen to thirty minutes if one sits down and dedicates to it there and then. It might not be the best work, it might even be subpar for your standard, but roleplaying is a social exercise. People have lives of their own and expectations, failing this has greater consequences than the self. In fact, I would wager the sheer amount of complacency and excuses, most infamously of "I was busy.", to be the major negative factor in most topics if I were one to bet.
However, that is just my experience and I have a very low threshold, abysmally low one, for tolerance with complacent people or the excuses of man. I do everything in my power to strike back against it, to the point I will tolerate and turn blind eye to other issues that are more minor so long as it keeps the activity going. Though ultimately those are the two consistent killers of topics I have met first hand.
3x Like
Dion THE ONE WHO IS CHEAP HACK ® / THE SHIT, A FART.
Member
Seen
9 days ago
Sandboxes. Sandboxes kill RP's.
1x Like
mickilennial The Elder Fae
Member
Seen
0-24 hrs ago
IDK about sandboxes being a principal issue, but yeah, a lot of sandbox RPs rarely work.
As for the OP, a lot of people have pretty much touched on the main reasons why this happens. Such things like drama between players or GMs, a difference of writing philosophy, different expectations of pacing, different levels of writing ability/competency, shifting interest, and lack of communication are all contributing factors in some way or another. Some of these problems are easier to deal with than others, but it is a fickle hobby so sometimes it can be quite of a feat to deal with. Some players lack initiative and suck their thumbs, others are frightened by other players dropping so they abandon ship, and so on.
As for the OP, a lot of people have pretty much touched on the main reasons why this happens. Such things like drama between players or GMs, a difference of writing philosophy, different expectations of pacing, different levels of writing ability/competency, shifting interest, and lack of communication are all contributing factors in some way or another. Some of these problems are easier to deal with than others, but it is a fickle hobby so sometimes it can be quite of a feat to deal with. Some players lack initiative and suck their thumbs, others are frightened by other players dropping so they abandon ship, and so on.
Todd Howard States facts, makes fiction
Member
Seen
3 yrs ago
Todd Howard States facts, makes fiction
Member
Seen
3 yrs ago
You said you were gonna roast me, not just post facts. Incorrect ones, at that. It's been closer to twenty.
fucker
you monster
1x Like
Dion THE ONE WHO IS CHEAP HACK ® / THE SHIT, A FART.
Member
Seen
9 days ago
IDK about sandboxes being a principal issue, but yeah, a lot of sandbox RPs rarely work.
they're the principal issue
mickilennial The Elder Fae
Member
Seen
0-24 hrs ago
they're the principal issue
How do you figure?
Dion THE ONE WHO IS CHEAP HACK ® / THE SHIT, A FART.
Member
Seen
9 days ago
Sandboxes are inherently a purposeless pursuit of 'what is interesting to me' and can only be pushed forward by incredibly driven players and this, on it's own, already signals that the GM is kaka because he can't find a way to drive the players himself and relies on them to drive themselves - essentially, you're expecting a character and their player to give themselves purpose and ideally give others purpose. Given the standard of writing prevalent on ALL roleplay websites and the fact that succesful roleplays all have at least one thing in common (a driven plot, or at the very least story arcs that aren't sandbox) leads me to belief that sandboxes are, in fact, kaka, and kill roleplays simply because they can only succeed when a player is driven.
And, in the end, when that one driven player is left, it's not a roleplay but a monologue.
And at that point one may argue, SO IT'S THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE IF ALL PLAYERS ARE DRIVEN????? TOUCHÉ ODIN to which I say yes, but you're living in a fantasy world where communism might succeed because theoretically it might and nazi's were sweet kind boys because theoretically they could be, but I'd kindly invite you to come back to reality and face the symphony of truth.
And, in the end, when that one driven player is left, it's not a roleplay but a monologue.
And at that point one may argue, SO IT'S THEORETICALLY POSSIBLE IF ALL PLAYERS ARE DRIVEN????? TOUCHÉ ODIN to which I say yes, but you're living in a fantasy world where communism might succeed because theoretically it might and nazi's were sweet kind boys because theoretically they could be, but I'd kindly invite you to come back to reality and face the symphony of truth.
Rai ..::Ascension::.. / All Maker
Member
Seen
5 mos ago
I think time is the essential killer of peoples motivation to be a part of a RP. As seasons change so do peoples lives and their cravings. It is best to give a roleplay a high point of accomplishment to feel completed. It also depends on the roleplay really. As @Odinsaid open world sandboxes have their own issues and I'm sure the others have their own reasons dependent on their style.
But for me I run a continuous open world "sandbox" you could say. Through trial and error I'd say its definitely a passage of time without activity during a roleplays life. The beginning is the most hyped time of a roleplay and peoples motivations are high. Without constant story progression I've noticed people have been likely to drop out.
Progression falters seriously from the GM not being available. It falters a bit when a player is not available. Most of the time people join when they are available. Only after some time has passed does their schedules change. So keeping a roleplay from being inactive while also having it progress in a steady interesting way is key to keeping it going. The opposite is why it usually dies. IMO
But for me I run a continuous open world "sandbox" you could say. Through trial and error I'd say its definitely a passage of time without activity during a roleplays life. The beginning is the most hyped time of a roleplay and peoples motivations are high. Without constant story progression I've noticed people have been likely to drop out.
Progression falters seriously from the GM not being available. It falters a bit when a player is not available. Most of the time people join when they are available. Only after some time has passed does their schedules change. So keeping a roleplay from being inactive while also having it progress in a steady interesting way is key to keeping it going. The opposite is why it usually dies. IMO
© 2007-2024