[OOC] Pro Patria Mori - A Tale of Sailships and Muskets (Still Recruiting)

European Overview

Provincial Overview

Colonial Overview

[Romero]

"If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud. Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, my friend, you would not tell with such high zest to children ardent for some desperate glory, the old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est Pro patria mori." -Wilfred Owen

Welcome, one and all, to 'Pro Patria Mori'. Now is the time for you to take up the mantle of a proud nation, to draw your sword and carve your name into the history books. The year is 1799, and the new century will be born into a world of high tension in Europe, the nations there rushing to build their militaries, while all the while colonising the far flung corners of the world. The decisions that you make, and the Actions that you take, will decide how the coming years will be remembered. The countries that should cover the map; Germany, France, Spain etcetera, do not exist. Instead Europe is a clean slate to be populated by your own nation, and the nations of your fellow players! Of course it is not unfeasible that nation's with the same culture and territory as real countries may exist, but that is entirely up to you. Now, without further ado, on to what you all came here for!

Rules

Enter At Ye Own Risk

1) Show respect for everyone. This includes respecting the choices and decisions of other player, as well as just generally being courteous to one another.

2) No God-Modding at all. I am the only god here, so remember to use common sense. Your armies aren't immortal, they can't fly around the map, and they can't throw lightning bolts around, so be realistic with your Actions, or I'll ignore them.

3) On that note, this role-play is firmly rooted in early 19th century technology. Yes there are guns, but they are basic muskets, so don't expect to be sharpshooting across the battlefield. There's no magic, and the only race your nation can be is human. Any further questions, just ask!

4) If you don't put effort into creating your nation, then chances are I won't put the effort into reading it. Be warned.

5) No meta-gaming. A simple rule.

6) Real life comes first, but please only join this if you envision that you will have the time to participate, and also let me know if you are going to be away for a prolonged period of time. Nations can be made NPC, but I prefer to know if you are dropping out, or merely going through some real-life issues for a week or so. To show you have read the rules, please include your Nation Leaders middle name.

7) I'm aiming for the turns to last one or two week, so please aim to make a post for each turn. What you can do during these turns, you can find below. If someone fails to post within the turn period, don't expect the role-play to wait for them.

8) This is intended to be an Advanced role-play. So please put effort into your posts! You should have no shortage of things to write about, so I expect at least 3 solid paragraphs per post. I would prefer acceptable spelling and grammar, but I'm not demanding professional level stuff! A lot of people role-play to improve their own writing skills, I know I certainly have, so you're welcome as long as you put effort into your post.

9) I reserve the executive power to reject, or to expel, any nation, and I do not need to divulge my reasoning. Hopefully I will never have to, but this is a reminder.

Mechanics

The Cogs Behind The Scenes

The mechanics of the RP will focus on you, as the players, taking 'Actions' with your nation. You are able to carry out three Actions each turn, and they can influence any aspect of your nation! This is your chance to get creative, whether it is to recruit more soldiers to your army, or to encourage your gunsmiths to work on a new rifle, if you can write it, then you can send it.

On that note, the Actions should be sent by PM to me every turn, in concert with an IC post. This is a role-play after all, and there may well be bonuses to your actions if you can transport the reader to your nation, wherever it may be!

Upon the acceptance of your nation, you will be sent a Nation Overview. This will be affected by the Nation Sheet that you submit, and will cover the population of your nation, your military, and your economy. It is with this sheet that you will be able to assess and decide your Actions.

Your Nation Sheet will also impart bonuses upon the dice rolls that I will make regarding your Actions, so if you put lots of points into, for example, your Low Industry, then you will get bonuses when constructing roads, or other simple construction tasks.

Disclaimer - For the Observant

Artistic Reference Lies Ahead

Those who are regulars to the NRP forums here on Guild, will notice that how this RP will be played bears some similarities to the works of Theodorable. I cannot disagree that there are some superficial links, or inspirations, but that is not to say that this will be some copy of my fellow role-player’s own RP’s. Just as the Baroque artists of the age emulated the style of Caravaggio, so too am I emulating the style of Theo. The Nation Overview, Point Allocation and Action system are all mechanics that could, by some, be considered as archetypal of Theo’s RP’s, his more recent ones in particular, but beyond that the similarities end. I hope that players of all sorts will join the RP, and help to create something new, and something that we can all enjoy.

The Nation Sheet

Put Your Creative Hat On

Overview

Official Name of Nation:
Nation Leader:
Form of Government:
Nation Capital:
National Language:

Nation Claim

Please name your provinces, as you claim them.

Colonial Claim (If Applicable)

Please name your provinces, as you claim them.

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From this point onwards, you have 125 points to allocate between the various aspects. Good luck!

Nation Demographics

Population: (The population of your nation)
Nation Size: (Each allocated point equates to being able to claim one European Province)

Colonial Demographics

Colonial Population: (The Population of your colonies)
Colonial Holdings: (Each allocated point equates to being able to claim one Colonial Province)
Colony Stability: (How stable your control over your colonies is)

Army

Infantry Strength: (How large the Infantry arm of your military is)
Infantry Quality: (How well-trained and experienced your Infantry is)
Infantry Logistics: (How well equipped your Infantry is)
Cavalry Strength: (How large the Cavalry arm of your military is)
Cavalry Quality: (How well-trained and experienced your Cavalry is)
Cavalry Logistics: (How well equipped your Cavalry is)
Artillery Strength: (How large the Artillery arm of your military is)
Artillery Quality: (How well-trained and experienced your Artillery is)
Artillery Logistics: (How well equipped your Artillery is)
Army Commander Quality: (How experienced and capable your Generals are)

Navy

Ship of the Line Strength: (How large your Ship of the Line fleet is)
Ship of the Line Quality: (How well-trained and experienced your Ship of the Line crew is)
Ship of the Line Logistics: (How well-equipped your Ships of the Line Fleet is)
Cruiser Strength: (How large your Cruiser fleet is)
Cruiser Quality: (How well-trained and experienced your Cruiser crew is)
Cruiser Logistics: (How well-equipped your Cruiser Fleet is)
Marine Strength: (How large the Marine arm of your military is)
Marine Quality: (How well-trained and experienced your Marines are)
Marine Logistics: (How well equipped your Marines are)
Naval Commander Quality: (How experienced and capable your Admirals are)

Economics

National Wealth: (The beginning wealth of your nation)
Industrialization: (How Industrialized your nation has become)
Development of Low Industry: (Your farmers and labourers, the working force of your nation)
Development of Middle Industry: (Your bureaucrats and inventors, the mental force of your nation)
Development of High Industry: (Your aristocrats, the ruling force of your nation)

The Maps

Europe Map

You can claim any white province, corresponding with how many points you allocated to 'Nation Size'. Simply post the map, with your claims, as part of your Nation Sheet

Colonial Map

Same as with Nation claims, but instead corresponding to 'Colonial Holdings'

With that, good luck! I look forward to whoever joins us.

@Ascendant@LordZell@Brithwyr@Sirkaithethird@SonOfALich

[Dinh AaronMk]

3) On that note, this role-play is firmly rooted in early 19th century technology. Yes there are guns, but they are basic muskets, so don't expect to be sharpshooting across the battlefield. There's no magic, and the only race your nation can be is human. Any further questions, just ask!

I'm not sure if you know this or not but the 19th century was a pretty major period in fire arms development. Even in the early 19th century rifled barrels existed establishing the dual classification of muskets (smooth bore) and rifles (rifled barrels) with the later providing considerable advantages of range over the classical smooth bore muskets in the first stage of the 1800's.

By the mid-1800's rifled barrels and more precise fire-arms became more in vogue with fully rifled muskets or full rifles being in use on the battlefield of the American Civil War. In fact a major factor to the high death toll in the Civil War was the usage of far more modern weapons being deployed in a much more Napoleonic methodology, tight formations shoulder-to-shoulder firing in blocks against the enemy two or three times in anytime between a minute or five minutes before charging in (in this case, not because they couldn't fire faster but because every soldier was issued a limited number of shot and ball they couldn't afford to fire as fast as possible as long as possible, 20-something shots per-person does not allow that).

Repeating rifles too saw deployment in the American Civil War, again the mid 19th century allowing for rapid fire and the benefit of rifles barrels. While of course in the historical context they were in they may not have seen wide-spread use like the Gatling Gun from the general conservatism of the military command they were a present and viable option with the terrifying benefit of rapid fire and incredible accuracy; early Gatling Guns for instance were known to be as accurate as any contemporary rifle of the time (as by design, Dr. Gatling hoped a single Gatling Gun would do the work of an entire battalion on a crew of two and thus reduce an army's size; this of course went the other way).

This is all in the period wooden hull ships would be in vogue and motor-driven ships would be at their earliest stage. Because also in the "19th Century" time-period you have the widespread evolution out of the sailing ship and into the engine-driven steel-hull ship and the industrial spread of rifled barrels. The musket was abandoned in the later part of the 19th century and in the life-time of a single person the entire period has gone from packing powder and bullets down a barrel with a ramrod to cartridges containing all the means to fire a bullet; the bullet itself, powder or propellant, firing cap. that can be fired with the twitch of a hand on a lever to reload a new bullet into the firing chamber or opening the chamber itself to load a new bullet into it and with unparalleled accuracy. Some features of Napoleonic warfare remained, but the lines of battle would be far more spread out. Meanwhile on the sea the steel-hulled ships would be so resistant to their own guns the whole practice of naval warfare returned to just smashing shit.

I think you're interpreting a fairly dynamic period of technological change as a fairly stagnant period with a single prominent firearm; the old musket with no accuracy. This is opposed to an earlier period and probably a far more accurate time for what you may want: the 18th century, or the 1700s.

[Willy Vereb]

@Dinh AaronMkI think it just means we should expect Napoleonic times or something. Though admittedly the reason why rifled guns and cannons didn't spread is due to the pressures of that war and then the recovery from its devastation.

[Romero]

@Dinh AaronMk I welcome anyone's suggestions and feedback, so thank you.

I am not at all suggesting that the 19th Century was not pivotal in the development of firearms, far from it in fact! If I was setting this RP in various points throughout the Century then I would of course adapt the available technology to fit. But this is an RP set in 1799, which is a point I do express.

With that in mind, then the idea of the musket being the primary firearm is far from a speculation, it is almost a certainty. Even during the Battle of Waterloo, 16 years after the starting date of this RP, rifles were still an uncommon armament. Only around 4000 were present on the English side, and practically none on the French side due to Napoleon's disdain of them, and his recalling of the experimental rifles in 1807.

I appreciate your feedback, but I can't help but feel you did not fully read the entire post, as you appear to have missed the limited beginning date of 1799. And for future reference, I don't particularly appreciate the apparent assumption of my ignorance. I wouldn't be undertaking running an RP if I hadn't done my research for it. But thank you nonetheless. I will read over the post again, in case I am at fault for not making the point clear.

[Dinh AaronMk]

@Dinh AaronMkI think it just means we should expect Napoleonic times or something. Though admittedly the reason why rifled guns and cannons didn't spread is due to the pressures of that war and then the recovery from its devastation.

@Willy Vereb

It would much more due to industrialization than war itself. Much of Europe wasn't up to the sort of speed as England was into early automation, and to that point not in all fields. Much of the early industrial production was oriented to the textile industry as was the case in the United States, particularly the north in and around New England; more so Britain since textiles like lenin and wool was a major historical export vs anyone else, except southern France where since the Revolution local Silk production in and around Lyon had been industrialized. Any widespread use of rifling would have been limited by the capacity to produce it, and as you and I both said to some capacity: the relative conservatism of the military command at the time (Napoleon resisting rifled weapons as much as the American command on either side resisting repeating weapons on account of the command being far more familiar with smooth-bore line infantry combat).

@Dinh AaronMk I welcome anyone's suggestions and feedback, so thank you.

I am not at all suggesting that the 19th Century was not pivotal in the development of firearms, far from it in fact! If I was setting this RP in various points throughout the Century then I would of course adapt the available technology to fit. But this is an RP set in 1799, which is a point I do express.

With that in mind, then the idea of the musket being the primary firearm is far from a speculation, it is almost a certainty. Even during the Battle of Waterloo, 16 years after the starting date of this RP, rifles were still an uncommon armament. Only around 4000 were present on the English side, and practically none on the French side due to Napoleon's disdain of them, and his recalling of the experimental rifles in 1807.

I appreciate your feedback, but I can't help but feel you did not fully read the entire post, as you appear to have missed the limited beginning date of 1799. And for future reference, I don't particularly appreciate the apparent assumption of my ignorance. I wouldn't be undertaking running an RP if I hadn't done my research for it. But thank you nonetheless. I will read over the post again, in case I am at fault for not making the point clear.

@Romero

Really, if what you want is a more Napoleonic situation with all the trappings and none of the worry of calculating however much more damage can be done by taking a brigade of rifles and having them shoot at another brigade at rifles at practical point-blank range for said rifles, then it would be far easier and far more honest to just call it an 18th century RP than a 19th century RP given how the Napoleonic Wars were much more along that tradition then and the 19th in the broadest sense. Calling something 19th century calls to mind so much of what is that tried and tired trope of Steam punk and the later definitive acts of the what-is Victorian period.

[Willy Vereb]

@Dinh AaronMkActually, rifling itself was not really difficult to make. It did take extra effort but the most pressing issue was that rifling made it more difficult for muzzle loaders to be used. Breech locking mechanisms on the other hand required industrial rigors Europe was not yet ready to do on large scale. Though if Europe weren't busy with Napoleon you can bet that rifle technology would've been introduced in large scale decades prior. This is demonstrated the best with the fact that caplock muskets became obsolete almost in the same few years they were introduced. Though to be fair early rifles were more finicky so in a sense it was good for them to mature before moving on. Rifled muskets and even most later mass issued rifles with black gunpowder also didn't bring that much of a change to the battlefield. Usual gun range remained similar as fights devolved into chaos from the massed fire. Drills also lacked training on proper marksmanship and the new rifles were actually harder to aim at longer ranges than muskets were. And of course military thinking as you cite was conservative in the effectiveness of rifles and for the reasons I mention prior I would not blame them.

Anyways, I really don't agree with your remark regarding the centuries. You can't really use broad strokes in reference to the 19th century just as you can't really do that for the 20th. There's a huge difference between 1801, 1812, 1830s, 1855, 1865, 1880s and 1890s, for example. Yet these are all the 19th century.@Romero's idea to call this the 19th century is thus neither a misinformer and especially not inaccurate. 1799 has far more to do with the early 19th century than the middle period of the 18th, for example.

[Romero]

Thank you @Willy Vereb. I couldn't have put it better myself.

@Dinh AaronMk I'm totally at a loss why you think I should label a Napoleonic Era RP as 18th Century, when the Napoleonic Wars happened entirely within the 19th Century. My stance is clear, As apparantly is yours. I would rather use this thread to recruit players than debate what certain words bring to your mind.

[SonOfALich]

@Romero Can I make my claims now, or do I have to finish a Nation Sheet first?

[Romero]

@Romero Can I make my claims now, or do I have to finish a Nation Sheet first?

@SonOfALich

I'd rather your claims accompany your Nation Sheet. Otherwise people could make claims, and then disappear, never submitting a sheet and denying other people their claims.

[Willy Vereb]

@RomeroA way to solve this is to take every claim without NS tentative and depending on pace even null after a set period.
So no person can just sit on the claim and hold back progress.
I also notify that while interested I have too many other RPs to seriously participate. This is a bit of good news, though. I know that there are a few people who don't like to play with me so you are potentially saved from a bit of headache.
I wish only the best luck for your game.

[DeadDrop]

I'll get shit up weds, got work to deal with.

[null123]

.

[Romero]

@Willy Vereb Thank you. It's a shame you won't be joining.

@duck55223 You mean the only difference is entirely how the game is played? It's like saying the Russell Crowe Robin Hood is 'super similiar similar' to the Disney cartoon of the same name.

I appreciate your interest, but the two RP's only share a setting, and I am sure can happily co-exist. Unless you think otherwise?

[SonOfALich]

Nation Sheet

Overview

Official Name of Nation: Republic of Toubres
Nation Leader: President Leonardo Andre Serra
Form of Government: Federalist Republic
Nation Capital: Amzores
National Language: Toubrian

Nation Claim



Colonial Claim



Nation Demographics

Population: 4
Nation Size: 6

Colonial Demographics

Colonial Population: 3
Colonial Holdings: 4
Colony Stability: 5

Army

Infantry Strength: 3
Infantry Quality: 4
Infantry Logistics: 4
Cavalry Strength: 2
Cavalry Quality: 3
Cavalry Logistics: 3
Artillery Strength: 3
Artillery Quality: 4
Artillery Logistics: 4
Army Commander Quality: 3

Navy

Ship of the Line Strength: 6
Ship of the Line Quality: 6
Ship of the Line Logistics: 6
Cruiser Strength: 3
Cruiser Quality: 5
Cruiser Logistics: 5
Marine Strength: 2
Marine Quality: 4
Marine Logistics: 3
Naval Commander Quality: 7

Economics

National Wealth: 5
Industrialization: 5
Development of Low Industry: 4
Development of Middle Industry: 5
Development of High Industry: 4

Hopefully the numbers all add up, and I haven't missed anything!

[DeadDrop]

@Romero dont mind duck he's a known troll.

[null123]

.

[Romero]

@duck55223 Are you suggesting I copied yours? If you scroll back through the RP's, I posted one called A New Age about a year ago that bears some pretty strong similarities to my new one. The map is in fact almost exactly the same. I've been working on the mechanics on and off for months. To be honest I'm genuinely baffled that you would outright suggest that I was copying your idea. I've been nothing polite to you, perhaps I was wrong to expect the same from you?

@SonOfALich It all looks good to me! Consider yourself accepted, and I'll have a Nation Overview sent your way.

[LordZell]

I recommend a discord chat.

[Romero]

It would be a bit of an echo chamber right now. I'll set one up as/if more people join. But you can PM me any questions, or just ask them here.

[DeadDrop]

@duck55223 no one copied you stop the drama or I'm calling mods.