Video Games: The General Discussion & Community Thread

[Fabricant451]

So I was going to originally come here, and laugh at some of obvious shilling and the white knighting I saw on twitter about this game, which is officially more absurd than the criticism ever was.

@SleepingSilence

Yeah how dare people enjoy a game! Fuck those guys! They should be mad because Dexit!

So my roommate brought it and already saw/showed me graphical errors & pop in.

I heard that if something's not on screen they don't even render it! How lazy are these devs? I can't believe they would opt for a smoother gameplay experience! Other games don't have pop in!

And apparently there's an overly complicated progress in order to even make a new game/no starting menu.

It's really hard to delete your save data, you have to go through TWO separate Switch menus! The horror! Unlike before where you had to do a button combination that wasn't ever told to you, that's definitely preferable to just...deleting save data or making a new profile!

And he's upset that he can't call his Scorbunny, 'Aids'. (Vermin, was his next choice for the curious.)

Well he sounds like a hoot. I can't believe Nintendo games continue to censor names! I was really mad when I couldn't name my Sobble 'HitlerDidNothingWrong' because the character limit is so restricting!

And because I want to be nice and still give a price drop PSA, roommate still got the game for like $49 bucks at Walmart (no, not at same price as the online deal sale), which is still 10 bucks cheaper than if you get it online or at other retail chains, so if you still want to buy the amazaballs game, say IGN, you can already get it *cheaper* if you know where to look.

I paid $120 for both versions step up, yo.

[spicykvnt]

I have had a few separate people this weekend send me a picture of Marnie from new Pokemon with a "haha it u".

I have been playing the game. I don't disagree.

[SleepingSilence]

Yeah how dare people enjoy a game! Fuck those guys! They should be mad because Dexit!

More like, people claiming they can't be disappointed about the entire list of missing features because there's kids starving in Mozambique.

I heard that if something's not on screen they don't even render it! How lazy are these devs? I can't believe they would opt for a smoother gameplay experience! Other games don't have pop in!

Yes, more polished games with better graphics, on the same console. I took at look at it and yeah, you can't tell me it was the best they could do. The idea that this game wasn't rushed to get it out before Black Friday (or more likely Christmas) is something I very much doubt.

It's really hard to delete your save data, you have to go through TWO separate Switch menus! The horror! Unlike before where you had to do a button combination that wasn't ever told to you, that's definitely preferable to just...deleting save data or making a new profile!

The process simply sounded tedious when he explained it in greater detail. But your witticisms don't really matter to me, as I really haven't played/been a fan of the games. So this new critic obsession with "people don't like the new thing because of changes that take away the value from a previous experience, so I'm going to defend this one by saying old games suck now/more." doesn't really register with me. (Though the three button press, I looked it up, takes one google search and a few seconds. So yes, the new option certainly takes longer. So that point seems a bit moot.)

Well he sounds like a hoot.

Yeah how dare he have a sense of humor! Fuck that guy! They should be consuming the product!

I paid $120 for both versions step up, yo.

If only you were a true fan and brought over 3,000 bucks worth of merchandise, or merely put it in a shopping kart. (If you don't get that joke, someone claimed to spend that much on twitter to 'stick it to the haters', but never actually showed proof of purchase.)

But eh, live and let live. If people have fun, or decide to criticize, good for them. I don't think there's anything wrong with not caring and enjoying yourself. In the same way I think disappointed fans don't have to be merely complacent.

And the idea (expressed a lot by others, not specifically yourself) that people can't have opinions either way "until it comes out/purchase it themselves" is obviously fallacious. As the people wouldn't have gotten something like the new less shitty looking Sonic. (Not that, that will improve the movie itself, but hey good PR and it won't give the kiddies night terrors anymore.)

[Fabricant451]

More like, people claiming they can't be disappointed about the entire list of missing features because there's kids starving in Mozambique.

@SleepingSilence

When it comes to people enjoying the game even with its flaws (which range from minor to 'blown out of proportion' to 'actually wrong') or the people who would bring up Iwata as "THE GAME WOULD NEVER BE RELEASED IF HE WERE ALIVE" or the people petitioning for the government to stop selling it, I'm gonna go ahead and side with the former. People aren't out here saying the game is a perfect, flawless masterpiece. They are saying that it's a fun game because it's fucking Pokemon and Pokemon is a fun game. You're allowed to like a game despite its issues. That doesn't make you a shill and it makes you sound far more reasonable than people who post the same gif of a turning legendary or "DEXIT DEXIT DEXIT" or a fucking tree on every post about Pokemon.

Yes, more polished games with better graphics, on the same console. I took at look at it and yeah, you can't tell me it was the best they could do. The idea that this game wasn't rushed to get it out before Black Friday (or more likely Christmas) is something I very much doubt.

Jedi: Fallen Order was rushed. That game could have used six more months to sort out its stability issues, its load times, optimization, and hiccups. It's still a good game. SwSh runs at a consistent frame rate when docked (other than the Wild Area which also has hundreds of other people all running around and Nintendo has always struggled with online connectivity) and part of the reason it keeps the framerate is the render distance. It's not bad graphics or lazy development or whatever because the game pops in 3D models when they come into render distance: that's how game development works.

The process simply sounded tedious when he explained it in greater detail.

How did he explain it, with a fucking powerpoint?

But your witticisms don't really matter to me, as I really haven't played/been a fan of the games. So this new critic obsession with "people don't like the new thing because of changes that take away the value from a previous experience, so I'm going to defend this one by saying old games suck now/more." doesn't really register with me.

I can defend this game without having to compare it to old games. I also don't get my information second hand. Disssssssss.

(Though the three button press, I looked it up, takes one google search and a few seconds. So yes, the new option certainly takes longer. So that point seems a bit moot.)

It doesn't take longer. You don't even have to load up the game and it deletes data FASTER.

Yeah how dare he have a sense of humor! Fuck that guy! They should be consuming the product!

Yeah, that's so funny, did he name his other Pokemon 'Shit' and 'PoopyDiaper' and 'FartFart'?

In the same way I think disappointed fans don't have to be merely complacent.

If the past six months have taught people anything it's that disappointed fans both can't help themselves from shouting and also still buying the game anyway. No one is saying fans don't have a right to be disappointed; but people can enjoy the game without being demonized because of it.

And the idea (expressed a lot by others, not specifically yourself) that people can't have opinions either way "until it comes out/purchase it themselves" is obviously fallacious. As the people wouldn't have gotten something like the new less shitty looking Sonic. (Not that, that will improve the movie itself, but hey good PR and it won't give the kiddies night terrors anymore.)

You know what's a bad precedent? Shouting at people to make them change something you don't like. People can certainly have opinions, but we're dealing with an audience of people who disagree with high reviews on games they already told themselves will suck (vice versa for games they convinced would be amazing and then aren't). Outrage culture is a vocal minority that acts like a majority. But if you don't play a game because you personally think it's not worth your time/value/whatever that's fine, but you also waive the right to make informed personal opinions on the quality of the finished, purchased product.

Well you still could, but I'd sooner trust the opinion of someone who has actually played/experienced the product good or bad.

[Ammokkx]

listen

all i'm sayin' is

pokeMMO made me have more fun with pokemon than anything pokemon gen 6 and onward

[Hey Im Jordan]

listen

all i'm sayin' is

pokeMMO made me have more fun with pokemon than anything pokemon gen 6 and onward

@Ammokkx

6 is the second best one so that's a bad opinion but okay

[Ammokkx]

<Snipped quote by Ammokkx>

6 is the second best one so that's a bad opinion but okay

@Hey Im Jordan

weird way to spell 2

[Fabricant451]

As long as we all agree 5 is the best okay thanks.

[Ammokkx]

As long as we all agree 5 is the best okay thanks.

@Fabricant451

weird way to spell 4

[Fabricant451]

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

weird way to spell 4

@Ammokkx

Weird way to spell worst.

[Ammokkx]

<Snipped quote by Ammokkx>

Weird way to spell worst.

@Fabricant451

Now I know I can't take your opinion seriously ever again

[Fabricant451]

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

Now I know I can't take your opinion seriously ever again

@Ammokkx

If it wasn't for Platinum, gen 4 would be second only to gen 7 in terms of worst. Instead it gets to be like, 4th or 5th.

[Majoraa]

So uh,

I managed to beat this one guy in a wireless battle with mostly a shiny Gardevoir.

Woo. 'ˇ'

Also, where's the love for gen 3? Sapphire makes up for most of my pokemon games since childhood. Whalu legendary is best.

[SleepingSilence]

When it comes to people enjoying the game even with its flaws (which range from minor to 'blown out of proportion' to 'actually wrong') or the people who would bring up Iwata as "THE GAME WOULD NEVER BE RELEASED IF HE WERE ALIVE" or the people petitioning for the government to stop selling it, I'm gonna go ahead and side with the former. People aren't out here saying the game is a perfect, flawless masterpiece. They are saying that it's a fun game because it's fucking Pokemon and Pokemon is a fun game. You're allowed to like a game despite its issues. That doesn't make you a shill and it makes you sound far more reasonable than people who post the same gif of a turning legendary or "DEXIT DEXIT DEXIT" or a fucking tree on every post about Pokemon.

@Fabricant451

Game critics are giving it near perfect scores. But yes, yes you can like or dislike something for pretty much any reason one chooses. *I don't want to spam more examples of the white knighting, because we'd be here all day.*

Jedi: Fallen Order was rushed. That game could have used six more months to sort out its stability issues, its load times, optimization, and hiccups. It's still a good game. SwSh runs at a consistent frame rate when docked (other than the Wild Area which also has hundreds of other people all running around and Nintendo has always struggled with online connectivity) and part of the reason it keeps the framerate is the render distance. It's not bad graphics or lazy development or whatever because the game pops in 3D models when they come into render distance: that's how game development works.

@Fabricant451

Kay? And games that aren't rushed, don't have those problems. Games can be fun, rushed. Bad movies can be fun ironically. Until we can argue complacency with laziness is good, don't think we're getting anywhere.

How did he explain it, with a fucking powerpoint? It doesn't take longer. You don't even have to load up the game and it deletes data FASTER.

Granted, he's not exactly the most tech literate. Though, it 'deletes faster' because of the Switch.

I can defend this game without having to compare it to old games. I also don't get my information second hand. Disssssssss.

Well, you'd be wrong. So...

Yeah, that's so funny.

You can fun ticket him later, Chief.

If the past six months have taught people anything it's that disappointed fans both can't help themselves from shouting and also still buying the game anyway. No one is saying fans don't have a right to be disappointed; but people can enjoy the game without being demonized because of it.

This statement seems a bit confused, the former sounds like you're mocking fans for fandom. 'Because of their lacking willpower.' And the later you're lambasting those that demonize fans who usually buy things because of nostalgia. (A thing this game does pander too, by adding a lot of 1 gen pokemon in the Dex.) Why can't you enjoy or dislike something & rightfully criticize it?

And if you didn't happen to read my thing, or just forgot already, there's literally people saying you can't be sad about the game. But I digress.

You know what's a bad precedent? Shouting at people to make them change something you don't like. People can certainly have opinions, but we're dealing with an audience of people who disagree with high reviews on games they already told themselves will suck (vice versa for games they convinced would be amazing and then aren't). Outrage culture is a vocal minority that acts like a majority. But if you don't play a game because you personally think it's not worth your time/value/whatever that's fine, but you also waive the right to make informed personal opinions on the quality of the finished, purchased product.

Well you still could, but I'd sooner trust the opinion of someone who has actually played/experienced the product good or bad.

Sure, outrage culture bad. But then again, it's an erroneous comparison, as most of the time, the people hating something for social/political reasons would've never purchased the thing in the first place.

Because you say this like it's a universal rule, but it's not at all, and I'd argue most "angry gamers" incidents are almost always justified grievances. (Bad apples aside.)

And the last bit seems oddly doubtful for some reason, maybe because my roommate has it, and I can literally watch him play and everything. (I can even play it myself.) And you don't seem to thrilled about him having an opinion, or was one of the gazillion (estimated figure) people who played pokemon who called their rival a bad word.

Though to make this conversation more mild. I and my roommate aren't really apart of either extreme. And after playing, "it's fun" has been said. So, there's no one spoiling anyone's fun, but it seems odd that certain people can't have fun (or enjoy things less) when things are criticized. Aren't the very best things in entertainment, even better when you think or go into detail about them and analyze what they got right?

[Fabricant451]

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>

Game critics are giving it near perfect scores. But yes, yes you can like or dislike something for pretty much any reason one chooses. *I don't want to spam more examples of the white knighting, because we'd be here all day.

@SleepingSilence

It's got an 81 on Metacritic. 'Near perfect' scores is more like 'It's good because Pokemon is a baseline of good'. Guess what? Critics are people too, and chances are they at least have an informed opinion on something well before anyone else does.

Kay? And games that aren't rushed, don't have those problems. Games can be fun, rushed. Bad movies can be fun ironically. Until we can argue complacency with laziness is good, don't think we're getting anywhere.

Games that aren't rushed often do have those problems. Case in point, Bloodborne, or Red Dead Redemption 2, or a handful of others I could easily mention. What evidence do you have that the game was 'rushed' other than the fact that they announced the game being in development PRIOR to Let's Go even being out and then a year after Let's Go it comes out in the Nintendo Holiday Slot. It's easy to say something is rushed when you don't have anything other than belief.

Granted, he's not exactly the most tech literate. Though, it 'deletes faster' because of the Switch.

Yes and? Thank you for agreeing with me, I guess?

Well, you'd be wrong. So...

I'd be wrong for...defending a game without comparing it to older games? Uh, no I wouldn't. Am I wrong in saying you're getting your information second hand? Because you're literally saying that. Unless your room mate is imaginary.

You can fun ticket him later, Chief.

Says the king of parade shitting.

This statement seems a bit confused, the former sounds like you're mocking fans for fandom.

Yes, I am mocking fans and fandom culture because there is not a single fandom out there that isn't full of shit raving lunatics that ruin it for everyone.

And the later you're lambasting those that demonize fans who usually buy things because of nostalgia. (A thing this game does pander too, by adding a lot of 1 gen pokemon in the Dex.) Why can't you enjoy or dislike something & rightfully criticize it?

If you want to talk nostalgia pandering, that'd be Gen 7 where every regional form was just a Kanto variant. SwSh at least gives the nod to other gens with its variants, and there aren't even that many gen 1 Pokemon out in the wild. It is, in fact, a blend of Pokemon from different gens and of different typings so even before the first gym you can have a party of six Pokemon of various typings - waltz into the first gym with a Dragon type or an Ice type the world is your oyster.

I'm not saying you can't dislike something or that you can't criticize. I am saying that review bombing something with criticisms that aren't helpful, thoughtful, or anything other than yelling into the same bubble as everyone else accomplishes nothing other than making people seem like whiny piss babies, especially when those same people buy the fucking game anyway. It's real easy to yell and criticize, but it makes you look like the BIGGEST HYPOCRITE if you spend half a year saying how shit a game is and how it's not worth your time and then day one you buy it anyway. Shit or get off the pot.

And if you didn't happen to read my thing, or just forgot already, there's literally people saying you can't be sad about the game. But I digress.

Okay, and I got called a shill because I said "I'm having fun with it, it's not my favorite but camping is cute" so you know, takes all kinds.

Sure, outrage culture bad. But then again, it's an erroneous comparison, as most of the time, the people hating something for social/political reasons would've never purchased the thing in the first place.

Most of the time, people hating something for social/political reasons still wind up seeing/buying/experiencing it anyway so they can reaffirm their beliefs and miss the forest for the trees.

Because you say this like it's a universal rule, but it's not at all, and I'd argue most "angry gamers" incidents are almost always justified grievances. (Bad apples aside.)

I wouldn't. The only time in recent memory where there was any justification was Battlefront 2 and guess the fuck what, before the game came out they did away with the loot box business.

And the last bit seems oddly doubtful for some reason, maybe because my roommate has it, and I can literally watch him play and everything. (I can even play it myself.) And you don't seem to thrilled about him having an opinion, or was one of the gazillion (estimated figure) people who played pokemon who called their rival a bad word.

Your room mate isn't here giving his opinion. You are. And when you open with opinions that aren't your own and come from second hand experience, yeah those get taken with a grain of salt. I don't watch a stream of a game for an hour and go "MAN I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS GAME IS OBJECTIVELY SHIT!" And on the topic of opinions: it's my opinion that people who name shit dumb bad words or give the player character's jersey number as '69' or '420' are fucking dumbshits who probably like Rick and Morty.

Aren't the very best things in entertainment, even better when you think or go into detail about them and analyze what they got right?

There's a difference between criticism and analysis.

[SleepingSilence]

Just tidying this up bit.

Yes and? Thank you for agreeing with me, I guess?

Helps when I'm not trying to argue quite as desperately as you are at the moment. ^-^'

Your room mate isn't here giving his opinion. You are. And I got called a shill because I said "I'm having fun with it, it's not my favorite but camping is cute" so you know, takes all kinds. Says the king of parade shitting.

So, are you trying to turn this into a personal argument? Like, what does, "I got called this" have to do with what was replied to? It seems to imply I'm the one that said it. Same with the former statement. (While most of your complaints boil down to how if I don't play, I can't say "Yeah, that's texture pop-in alright.") But no, you're wrong. I am saying, what my roommate is saying, and only confirming what I saw with my eyes. You can't make a "you aren't playing it argument", for more reasons than one, almost like my roommate got it for me or something. But ignoring that, your argument (which at this point I'm not sure what it is anymore.) is purely dismissive and erroneous.

It's got an 81 on Metacritic. 'Near perfect' scores is more like 'It's good because Pokemon is a baseline of good'. Guess what? Critics are people too, and chances are they at least have an informed opinion on something well before anyone else does.

@Fabricant451

Originally, first reviews were all 90's. But one thing I would've stated in the original post, was how literally all pokemon games are. And even fans would admit they vary in quality. Popular Nintendo IP ratings are rather kind pretty much all the time, to say the least.

And yeah...game critics are more frequent proof that they *don't* have informed opinions on games.

Games that aren't rushed often do have those problems. Case in point, Bloodborne, or Red Dead Redemption 2, or a handful of others I could easily mention. What evidence do you have that the game was 'rushed' other than the fact that they announced the game being in development PRIOR to Let's Go even being out and then a year after Let's Go it comes out in the Nintendo Holiday Slot. It's easy to say something is rushed when you don't have anything other than belief.

That last part is contradicting later statements about you permitting people to have opinions or reservations about a game. But no, Bloodborne and RD2, didn't have the same problems this game does. But this is steering farther off topic.

I'd be wrong for...defending a game without comparing it to older games? Uh, no I wouldn't. Am I wrong in saying you're getting your information second hand? Because you're literally saying that. Unless your room mate is imaginary.

Yes. I feel like explaining why would be wasted time. Not that having trusted people giving you their takes is bad anyway...I mean you're literally defending the critics...

I am saying that review bombing something with criticisms that aren't helpful.

Sure.

Especially when those same people buy the fucking game anyway.

I guess would you prefer people pirate the media? Suppose that's neither here nor there. But why can't you criticize something and buy/try it anyway? That really seems to be the contention here. I'm questioning if you're only stance, is "that's fine, but the volume and scope of it is bad though." And then I ask, well it's Nintendo's most lucrative franchise, what would you expect exactly?

I wouldn't. The only time in recent memory where there was any justification was Battlefront 2 and guess the fuck what, before the game came out they did away with the loot box business.

There's quite a bit more than that. But again, off topic.

There's a difference between criticism and analysis.

Because criticism is occasionally negative sounding, and you can't have that ruining the fun, can we?

---

If can TDLR this: This whole thing is "You can't talk about a thing, if you didn't see/play it. Insert insults and rage here."

I have played the game...so now you're okay with the criticism that my roommate gave it right?

Well, the last conversation I had this in, was about that shitty Ghost In The Shell remake, I watched it. Time passed by and now it's mostly agreed upon that...it sucks.

I guess time will tell with this game as well. Yeah, the game doesn't appear as polished or content-rich as the previous titles and I could put $5 that the release date was forced to be out before Christmas. I don't know, but no one will for months at least, as most companies avoid giving out that information in the first place. (The pre-order stuff that ends around then feels like it backs that assumption up. Again, I digress.)

I wasn't calling or saying anything about you, or what you have to say about the game. And *my roommates* opinion and observations are so mild as is. That the over the top reaction seems to highlight that you (if this isn't just been all for my sake.) can't accept the lightest issues brought up about games you personally enjoy. But that isn't my judgement to make.

[mickilennial]

This thread is not for offensive memes (do not post them), personal baiting, and so forth. Don't be a dick. Dialogue and Debate is natural but we should remember to keep things grounded in the rules of the site; specifically the rule that we should not stoop to personal attacks, flamebaiting, and trolling.

@Inkarnate

[POOHEAD189]

Yep, since I have been messaged about the thread by multiple people and read through some of it, let's not call one another names, be unreasonably snarky (or snarky at all for a bit), and be a bit more civil. Nothing overt happened, but let's tone it down plz.

[mickilennial]

If it wasn't for Platinum, gen 4 would be second only to gen 7 in terms of worst. Instead it gets to be like, 4th or 5th.

@Fabricant451

To get back on topic, I do have a question.

What makes Diamond, Pearl, & Platinum such a bad generation for you, exactly? I've always thought it was one of the stronger generations with its features, content, and protagonists. I mean I still prefer the generation preceding it due to Fire Red and Leaf Green being excellent updates of the original games to the features that were new at the time with additional polish.

[Fabricant451]

Just tidying this up bit.

Helps when I'm not trying to argue quite as desperately as you are at the moment. ^-^'

@SleepingSilence

lol you think this is me arguing.

So, are you trying to turn this into a personal argument? Like, what does, "I got called this" have to do with what was replied to? It seems to imply I'm the one that said it. Same with the former statement. (While most of your complaints boil down to how if I don't play, I can't say "Yeah, that's texture pop-in alright.") But no, you're wrong. I am saying, what my roommate is saying, and only confirming what I saw with my eyes. You can't make a "you aren't playing it argument", for more reasons than one, almost like my roommate got it for me or something. But ignoring that, your argument (which at this point I'm not sure what it is anymore.) is purely dismissive and erroneous.

You'd be able to pin down my 'argument' if you didn't keep moving the goalposts, buddy. You've gone from 'my room mate played it, my room mate showed me, to now 'my room mate bought it for me'. Don't use your room mate's opinions as your own. That'd be crazy, what kind of person just blindly accepts the opinions of people reeeeing over the place.

Originally, first reviews were all 90's.

Yeah, and originally first reviews for Joker were in the 90s and 5 stars but as more people saw it they decreased and leveled out. Almost like criticism doesn't exist in a bubble!

And yeah...game critics are more frequent proof that they *don't* have informed opinions on games.

Moreso than the average shit poster. They're the ones going to events and trade shows.

That last part is contradicting later statements about you permitting people to have opinions or reservations about a game. But no, Bloodborne and RD2, didn't have the same problems this game does. But this is steering farther off topic.

Not a contradiction and also yes they did. Bloodborne got to the point where they had to issue a patch just to fix the loading screens and the game didn't ever run at a solid frame rate. RDR 2 was full of technical glitches and issues but sure, let's gloss over that because the trees look better I guess.

I feel like explaining why would be wasted time. Not that having trusted people giving you their takes is bad anyway...I mean you're literally defending the critics...

I'm literally not. Stop assuming that because I'm not going "CRITICS ARE PAID SHILLS!" or whatever that I'm defending the critics over a goddamn fucking Pokemon game. I don't even fucking read video game reviews.

I guess would you prefer people pirate the media?

No, I would prefer if people have stated how bad something is, how not worth the money it is, how they've spent six months hating on a thing, that they would then NOT FUCKING BUY IT. 'Vote with your wallet' gets thrown around a lot but obviously it means fuckall. How is this difficult to grasp?

But why can't you criticize something and buy/try it anyway?

Because here's the funny thing about criticism: Criticism tends to work better AFTER you experience something. Imagine being a film critic, watching a trailer and going "I think this movie is shit" and then not even watching the whole movie but still going around saying "The movie is shit!" because you've seen a trailer. You can get a value judgment from a trailer, but you can't in good faith give an opinion on the finished product without experiencing it firsthand. And if you spend the entire release cycle saying how it sucks, how you don't want to see it and then still go on to spend money on it? That's being a hypocrite.

It's the easiest thing to not spend money on something.

Because criticism is occasionally negative sounding, and you can't have that ruining the fun, can we?

My dude, you do realize that I'm probably the most critical person posting in this thread? My guy, I know how to analyze media - I got a degree in it. Any idiot can criticize something (not well but hey). Not everyone can or does analyze media. Why do you think I'm against criticism? I'm against hypocrisy and bad faith criticism, or destructive criticism. Everyone's a critic.

If can TDLR this: This whole thing is "You can't talk about a thing, if you didn't see/play it. Insert insults and rage here."

I'm not raging. Insulting? Ehhh, debatable. But I mean, if that's all you took away from it you're almost there. Imagine talking to someone about a movie. You've seen it. You love the movie. This dude starts talking about things he didn't like and he goes "Oh, I didn't see it, but I heard-" do you still treat his criticism as valid? You can talk about something if you didn't see it or play it or whatever, but don't expect me to take your criticisms with anything other than the smallest grain of salt.

I have played the game...so now you're okay with the criticism that my roommate gave it right?

No, dude, I don't fucking care about your roommate.

I wasn't calling or saying anything about you, or what you have to say about the game. And *my roommates* opinion and observations are so mild as is. That the over the top reaction seems to highlight that you (if this isn't just been all for my sake.) can't accept the lightest issues brought up about games you personally enjoy. But that isn't my judgement to make.

Yet you're making a judgment all the same. I can accept issues, but when you come in being a snarky git pushing up the glasses while also being factually wrong about something, I'm going to snark back. I'm a fucking diehard fan of shitty JRPGs, believe me I can handle criticism of games I enjoy. I go to bat for fucking Kingdom Hearts and Nier - before it was cool to like Nier. My favorite FF games are 8 and 13, trust me, dude, I can accept people having issues with games I enjoy.

<Snipped quote by Fabricant451>
To get back on topic, I do have a question.

What makes Diamond, Pearl, & Platinum such a bad generation for you, exactly? I've always thought it was one of the stronger generations with its features, content, and protagonists. I mean I still prefer the generation preceding it due to Fire Red and Leaf Green being excellent updates of the original games to the features that were new at the time with additional polish.

@Inkarnate

Personally, Diamond and Pearl were just ungodly slow - and not just in terms of battles but in the pacing of the game. So much of the game is spent aimlessly wandering just looking for the next thing to do. It also has the most HM roadblock bullshit with the fog/defog thing that turns an already slow game into an even bigger chore. The only 'memorable' character from Gen 4 is Cynthia (probably because they kept bringing her back). The balance of type is totally fucked (how's your two fire types, fire Elite Four guy) and I personally can only think of about three new Pokemon (other than new evolutions to older Pokemon in which case it'd be about...six) that I genuinely like from gen 4. Plus all the cool Pokemon were just relegated to post game which further reduced the team variety aspect that makes Pokemon fun. Diamond and Pearl are sluggish games and the best thing they do is the physical/special split which is no small thing, of course.

Platinum is the saving grave of gen 4 but my opinions on gen 4 as a whole are soured by my distaste for Diamond and Pearl. Gen 5 remains the best gen for me, personally, and nothing will change that until GameFreak decides to say fuck it and give us a region full of all new dudes again.