For anyone on this site that feels like RPing Yu-Gi-Oh, let's brainstorm something together.

[Ammokkx]

<Snipped quote by 1Charak2>

The way I interpreted the Ante Rules for this is that it wouldn't necessarily be that you'd have to give up your strongest card like in the anime, but rather than you'd both wager a card upfront before the duel began. The fact that Ammokkx said you'd register your deck and your card collection as two separate items means you'd potentially be anteing a strong card that isn't vital to your deck and potentially something that you don't even use. I can see the Ante Rule mostly being a way to get your hands on off-archetype extra deck monsters.

I could be completely off base though.

You could also just pull a Joey and lose your best card right away and have to claw your way back. There's story potential there.

@King Cosmos

Yeah, I was definitely leaving room open for people to not have to risk crippling their deck every duel. If they're in a desperate spot, though, they could always wager their key card, which would up the stakes.

[The Red Seelie]

@King Cosmos

Story potential or not, the idea that cards are in a fixed pool that must be ante'd would nring back the idea that rare cards do in fact exist.

So if we are operating kn cards being rare as hell that ante'ing them is a thing then that furthermore leads to issues.

Similarly it'll be difficult to do a "Super special card" ver under these conditions, unless ammokkx wishs to inject the Egyptian gods or the like into thjs.

I feel ante has potential, but I also feel that it would be best saved for an arc, rather then to be the whole premise of the rp. But thats judt me.

[Ammokkx]

I feel ante has potential, but I also feel that it would be best saved for an arc, rather then to be the whole premise of the rp. But thats judt me.

@1Charak2

then propose a better idea I'm running on pure vegetable oil here

[The Red Seelie]

@Ammokkx

Well, I mean, There has been a high vote for super special card and cultural appropriation, So this means you sort of have a historical/legend basis for how everyone could have come to be drawn to this one place. You also similarly have the ease of producing forces counter to it (Ala Dark signers if you will) Meaning that it wouldn't be impossible to set up Shadow duels/Ante duels against the villians where the price is your super special awesome card.

The value you subject to them is up to you as GM.

Just a thought.

[webboysurf]

@Ammokkx

Well, I mean, There has been a high vote for super special card and cultural appropriation, So this means you sort of have a historical/legend basis for how everyone could have come to be drawn to this one place. You also similarly have the ease of producing forces counter to it (Ala Dark signers if you will) Meaning that it wouldn't be impossible to set up Shadow duels/Ante duels against the villians where the price is your super special awesome card.

The value you subject to them is up to you as GM.

Just a thought.

@1Charak2

I think the problem there is DM overloading. While it would be cool for all of us to play the heroes of a Yu-Gi-Oh style story, what you're suggesting does one of two things: either we have to split some of us fellow writers up to play as the villains of the story, or we are all dueling the DM.

[Kaggs]

imo having this kind of easter egg hunt for strong cards might force a lot of us to write similar characters, like "whats to be the king of kings". It's not like there's a lot of unique reasons a person might want to collect these kind of cards.

And it's not like we need an all-encompassing story, we could have a lot of smaller stories for a couple of characters each and occasionally an overarching plot pulls y'all together.
but that ain't really suggesting ideas for a plot...

[Ammokkx]

Meaning that it wouldn't be impossible to set up Shadow duels/Ante duels against the villians where the price is your super special awesome card.

@1Charak2

See, there's one constant in Yugioh that not a lot of people seem to like; The stakes are perpetually too high.

Almost nobody has leave to lose a duel because losing would mean ending the plot dead in its tracks. I don't want to repeat that mistake by setting up an RP where you guys have to always win, especially not when so many of your seem to be intent on playing a character fully intent on tanking a few losses. To that end, I need a premise that would give some tension, but not always be the biggest threat in the world.

I'm also still 50/50 on a special card plot, since I don't think there's been a massive consensus either way. I'll definitely be introducing one-of-a-kind, ultra-powerful cards into the plot somehow, since that's pretty much a staple, but it doesn't seem like everyone wants to have their own unique thing going.

I'm going to hear from a few people before I definitively say "yes" or "no" to my own suggestion, since I think only you and PKMN have definitvely commented with an opinion on it so far.

<Snipped quote by 1Charak2>

I think the problem there is DM overloading. While it would be cool for all of us to play the heroes of a Yu-Gi-Oh style story, what you're suggesting does one of two things: either we have to split some of us fellow writers up to play as the villains of the story, or we are all dueling the DM.

@webboysurf

I'm a bit iffy on letting players set out to play a villain. I'd rather everyone start off without a predesignated role (though with a direction they're leaning in) and having the characters grow into it as the story goes. Granted, I tried this once in the past and was a bit too forceful with telling players what they should be doing. I can definitely handle a lot of stuff at once, but I'll admit that 7 duels at once might be a bit much. Especially since I end up planning them all out myself most of the time :c

[Ammokkx]

imo having this kind of easter egg hunt for strong cards might force a lot of us to write similar characters, like "whats to be the king of kings". It's not like there's a lot of unique reasons a person might want to collect these kind of cards.

@Kaggs

Keep in mind the Ante rule is a sideshow at best; My main suggestion was gathering everyone in the same city, presumably a hub for duelists. The reason you have to come to the city is up to your character.

Battle city's come up a lot, but I'll draw from it again for another example. A lot of characters had different motivations in it:

-Atem was looking for his memories
-Jounouchi wanted to prove he was worthy of holding Red-Eyes by becoming a true duelist
-Mai was fighting to prove she was an independently strong duelist and didn't need to rely on Yugi's support network
-Bakura wants to obtain the Millenium items
-Marik wants to kill Atem
-Rishid follows Marik
-Ishizu wants Marik to not kill Atem
-Kaiba just wants to flex on Atem

And this is just the quarter-finalists. Most other competitors came to the tournament just to win the gods and rare cards, yes, but none of those made it into the finals because they're not interesting motives. That's what I'd be looking to emulate; Have players come up with their own side-stories to get them into the city and into the story.

[Kaggs]

-Atem was looking for his memories
-Jounouchi wanted to prove he was worthy of holding Red-Eyes by becoming a true duelist
-Mai was fighting to prove she was an independently strong duelist and didn't need to rely on Yugi's support network
-Bakura wants to obtain the Millenium items
-Marik wants to kill Atem
-Rishid follows Marik
-Ishizu wants Marik to not kill Atem
-Kaiba just wants to flex on Atem

@Ammokkx

• 2 duelists wanted to prove themselves (ma boi Jou and Mai).
• 6 are doing/want to do something.
  
  
  
  • 2 want to get something
  • 4 are doing shit around Atem

ngl I get what you mean but the examples from yugioh ain't really that character inspiring.

[FujiwaraPhoenix]

I'm definitely in the camp of 'no ante' as a main mechanic, mainly because of the weirdness of having to set up a collection to begin with (and that's a whole other can of worms). That being said, I do think that sort of... Banking on the 'trading' aspect wouldn't be too bad, either?

Start with a deck, no collection (or maybe a small one), open packs/sets/boxes/cases/whatever, build up, trade. There's no external economy to have to fret about, so you don't end up with the 'value on X/Y/Z' problem, and if someone gets something your character might want, then that's something to manage in-RP. Maybe holos actually exist in-universe and you want to be extra, idk.

Starting with far lower stakes and scaling up rather than starting with them being huge kind of lends itself to that, I'd think. Establishing the players as a group of people gathering from who knows where is fine, and given how big the game is culturally in-universe (as was mentioned prior), I don't think it'd be unheard of, per se.

Battle City definitely lends itself to more of a one-off in my head, if not just a single arc. The stakes are definitely lower compared to... Well, pretty much every season thereafter, but going down this route also brings in to question how slow the opener is going to be + how fast the players want to scale into the bigger stuff. A smaller-scale opener to establish a baseline could help.

It might also incentivize characters having more reason to interact with one another rather than doing the YGO equivalent of being a murderhobo, as despite personal intentions to be there, it's not like the characters themselves have any inherent reason to stick around unless there is made to be one. I could be wrong, of course, but that's the way I'm seeing things. Wasn't most of Battle City also spent with the cast sort of roaming solo, too?

[Ammokkx]

<Snipped quote by Ammokkx>

• 2 duelists wanted to prove themselves (ma boi Jou and Mai).
• 6 are doing/want to do something.
  
  
  
  • 2 want to get something
  • 4 are doing shit around Atem

ngl I get what you mean but the examples from yugioh ain't really that character inspiring.

@Kaggs

I'm aware of the problem here, but it's just the thing on hand I have to help illustrate the idea. It's better than the Fortune Cup route of "Half the cast was forced into it" at the very least, since everyone did sign up voluntarily. Yugioh doesn't always have the best writing.

I do think that sort of... Banking on the 'trading' aspect wouldn't be too bad, either?

@PKMNB0Y

I'm not particularly interested in this myself. It's something the OCG Structures manga does (that's the actual title, not a descriptor) and I'm... just not too fond of it. If you read on the subreddit it has definitely found an audience of people who like a (slightly) more realistic and low-key take on Yugioh with more closer-to-real-life duels, but I'm more fan of the "Hey the fucking world is ending and everyone around me is dead" type of storytelling.

That said, I think there's been definitive enough pushback against the idea for me to not really go with it, so back to the drawing board.

[The Red Seelie]

So for a spin on the battle city thing, Where Ante would be a thing, and the whole place is prone to being a complete shithole when it comes to later things.

Why not just run it in satellite. What with the duel gangs, and the fact that making a deck usually involves scavaging the shit out of it (A canon way to not result in super high tier decks) While also the fact that trading would be seen as incredibly generous and mean something.

some individuals could certainly be from New Domino/other parts of the world, thus different motives.

What I'm saying is

New Domino + Satellite offers a better locational environment then say just battle city. PLUS Police duelists.

[Ammokkx]

New Domino + Satellite offers a better locational environment then say just battle city. PLUS Police duelists.

@1Charak2

I could definitely make a Satellite expy if enough people vouch for the idea. Not the actual Satellite though, considering the situation mostly unfucked itself by the end of 5D's

[King Cosmos]

A few people have mentioned the idea of buying card packs to get new cards, but how would that work in an RP exactly; what I mean is, how do we determine what cards are in a pack?

Battle City definitely lends itself to more of a one-off in my head, if not just a single arc. The stakes are definitely lower compared to... Well, pretty much every season thereafter, but going down this route also brings in to question how slow the opener is going to be + how fast the players want to scale into the bigger stuff. A smaller-scale opener to establish a baseline could help.

@PKMNB0Y

I definitely support having a short, small-scale opener to establish things. Slow opening segments are the killer of far too many RPs.

[FujiwaraPhoenix]

I mean, I'm not saying 'keep the RP low-key the entire way through', I'm saying 'start it low-key and build it up'. Establish relationships, create some low stakes and base engagement, then pursue the usual anime shenanigans afterwards.

It might be worth it to spend time establishing something that can divorce itself a bit from what already exists, though. What that might BE, I haven't the slightest, but hey, that's what brainstorming is for.

I mean, still, though. Popping off with fancy combos, scripted or not, is fun.

Re: packs...
There's a pack simulator here. Could just have the GM open them and show the results to us?

Edit: Problem is what sets. 3 DUDE is an instant problem, for example.

[Ammokkx]

Re: packs...
There's a pack simulator here. Could just have the GM open them and show the results to us?

@PKMNB0Y

this is, in fact, how I did it. Rolled a pack for a person and posted the results.

[FujiwaraPhoenix]

Yeah, the problem afterwards is opening in bulk. Single packs are slow and can have pretty... Sad rewards.
Like, imagine rolling 24 supers in a row when box ratios have 4 ultras and 2 secrets. That's depression incarnate, given how TCG loves their rarity bumps.
Then you have the big money reprint sets (DUDE, DUOL, DUPO, Mega-Tins), which is... Again, a whole 'nother can of worms.
I'm interested in the logistics of the system, but it is something to consider (because I can totally see people splitting boxes or cases).

[Ammokkx]

Yeah, the problem afterwards is opening in bulk. Single packs are slow and can have pretty... Sad rewards.
Like, imagine rolling 24 supers in a row when box ratios have 4 ultras and 2 secrets. That's depression incarnate, given how TCG loves their rarity bumps.
Then you have the big money reprint sets (DUDE, DUOL, DUPO, Mega-Tins), which is... Again, a whole 'nother can of worms.
I'm interested in the logistics of the system, but it is something to consider (because I can totally see people splitting boxes or cases).

@PKMNB0Y

I'm going to be honest, if I do put in a progression system it won't be much like opening packs IRL. I'd probably leave luck out of it altogether.

Another problem is that if I make this too "game-ey" I'll essentially just be making the same mistakes I did back in Duel Tower, where half the crowd was trying to meta the system and build a high-tier deck while the other half was actually in it for the goofy stuff. Again, my focus for the RP is not the actual card game. It's just a vessel for the combat.

Like, let me pull out Vrains for a bit here, 'cause I hate Vrains. It tried to make its duels more realistic by having people shit out their extra like there's no tomorrow, have crazy long combos, and generally produce incredible boardstates. This was the most boring thing to watch as it felt like no duelist had an identity or style of their own, and only tried to play 'optimally' while still somehow messing up half the combos that would've actually ended the duel on that turn.

GX is my personal favorite when it comes to the raw number of "good duels" in it, and GX rarely ever had a combo last more beyond "I play three cards and end my turn". Of course that doesn't mean there weren't some absolute ass-blast turns in there as well, but I like the slower and more methodical approach.

Yes, I know this has little to do with opening packs. Still felt like I needed to put it on the table.

[webboysurf]

<Snipped quote by 1Charak2>

I could definitely make a Satellite expy if enough people vouch for the idea. Not the actual Satellite though, considering the situation mostly unfucked itself by the end of 5D's

@Ammokkx

I never got super into 5Ds beyond the first season, but what I did love was the setting of Satellite primarily due to the idea of it. Dueling wasn't just something you did for fun, it was a way of life and even survival at times. I think this sort of setting would lead to more interesting characters and motivations. All our characters could be part of the same dueling gang, or could sort of get forced together by any number of reasons or obstacles.

[FujiwaraPhoenix]

For what it's worth, VRAINS also gave us the only protagonist with the dubious honor of getting his ace monster on the banlist (lol Firewall), so, uh... Yeah. That said, even 5Ds had some crazy stuff; Yusei was basically running Junk Doppel by the end of 5Ds, for example. Arc-V had Yuya pulling off Performage shenanigans like nothing else, iirc.

And then... I think Yuma did stuff? I don't know.

I get that pushing the RP in a direction too close to actual dueling is a problem, but Yu-Gi-Oh! as a game has gotten exponentially faster even starting from 5Ds onwards, and a lot of archetypes do just tend to pop off if you draw well. It's not like there aren't grindier decks, and the intent isn't to push for something closer to the game itself rather than using it as a means to an end, but still.
(Also, fwiw, if Judai got modern HERO support, he'd probably also be wilding out with boards.)

Regarding progression: I mean, if you limit pack availability, I think it becomes possible to progress that way? If you take the Satellite-esque path, that's an... Option, but I'm not sure what direction you want to take that because of the emphasis on Synchro + Speed duels.