Let's B!tch. I feel it's a healthy release for our roleplay annoyances 2.0

[Pachamac]

I don't have a personal problem with it, but it is kind of a pointless, nebulous detail to be asking.

[Brovo]

New Gripe (on behalf of a friend I suppose)

"When someone demands complete originality in your characters in a fan fiction RP." What is this I don't even--

[Frizan]

Brovo said
What is this I don't even--

Nine times out of ten, that someone's character is Sasuke. It's just something I've noticed in fanfiction RPs.

[Vordak]

Pachamac, it depends. In combat heavy RP's, height and weight are immensly important details. It helps to understand wether you are short enough to duck underneath you opponents swing, heavy enough to stay on your feet after a kick and ect.

But that's just combat.

[Jig]

Derpestein said
What's wrong with that?

It bothers me as well. It just seems really really pointless. If a character is particularly tall or short or overweight or emaciated, that will be detailed anyway, in the Appearance Section and in the IC, most likely. Unless otherwise stated, you can assume the height and weight to be average or not noteworthy, just like you assume people have the average number of arms (two) unless they tell you otherwise.

It doesn't help that I have no concept of how tall people are, or how much they weigh. I seriously don't know my own measurements. When I recently went to hospital, they asked me and thought I was hiding something / on drugs because I couldn't tell them.

[vancexentan]

well height and weight ARE notable because if the rp is combat scenario based roleplay weight class and how tall a person is drastically effects how they can do some things. Why do you think you rarely see heavy weight boxers fighting feather weights? Because it'd be the big guy smacking the smaller guy around a hell of a lot or the smaller guy just dodging and weaving around like a devil for the most part. Also it is notable if a character is taller than the other for reference sake.

[vancexentan]

Also here's a pet peeve of mine. When a person, gm or not, doesn't read your character all the way through and then proclaims them to be a mary or gary stu. For example if a character is really well liked and has some very much weaker versions of a move that is higher class. Perhaps they get a really huge reputation for something they have or have done. Then forget to mention that the guy or girl in question hates tactics, is biased against certain groups, fights almost exclusively in one area, can be easily overwhelmed if his weakness is pushed against, and or is simply not book smart. Other weaknesses that could be attributed to characters with other strong traits could be stuff like a prodigal level soldier with a genetically weak body. lack of charisma, any sort of hampering disease, drug or alcohol problems, and otherwise really severe problems.

When I personally come by and look at a character I look at what they are capable of doing currently and in the future and if I see something I don't know how would work I either ask about it or say that I don't feel comfortable with that sort of ability in the roleplay.

[Jig]

vancexentan said
well height and weight ARE notable because if the rp is combat scenario based roleplay weight class and how tall a person is drastically effects how they can do some things. Why do you think you rarely see heavy weight boxers fighting feather weights? Because it'd be the big guy smacking the smaller guy around a hell of a lot or the smaller guy just dodging and weaving around like a devil for the most part.

In that instance, fair enough. I happen to never participate in RPs with a high chance of mano-a-mano combat so that thought never crossed my mind.

Also it is notable if a character is taller than the other for reference sake.

I guess you're not wrong. It still feels like absurdly specific information for a character sheet to ask for measurements to me, though. You don't measure other things like hair length or specific hue of skin-tone (I hope!) on the off-chance an inter-character comparison feels necessary. But whatever. I guess there are reasons for height and weight fields for some people - I just think they're unlikely information to get used in the bulk of RPs I participate in.

[Prince]

I'm actually going to have to side with Vance here. I feel like all of that information could be greatly useful in dozens of nonverbal ways. Racism in a roleplay, which does exist. Maybe psychology. It doesn't even have to be combat. What if a particular woman in a roleplay was attracted to taller men? What if several facts like that just synced up on character sheets? There could be an unspoken level of physical attraction between characters, all of which accomplished by factors such as skin tone, height, hair-length, etc.

Now, I rarely, rarely ever see any of that in practice. Unless you're in the Advanced of the Advanced or maybe a Slice of Life-esque roleplay, I don't see a purpose for that level of detail. But, I could easily see how absurdly specific information could be useful. I mean, think about this: what do you like about the opposite sex or even the same sex (I'm not judging. Maybe taping, but not judging)? How often do you think some of those traits even show up on a character sheet?

[Jig]

You'd think that those traits, if notable, would naturally appear in the character sheet anyway. If a character is tall, the player may indicate this in the sheet. If they are very-slightly-taller-than-average, a player may omit this if unprompted. The reason I think this is fine is because being very-slightly-taller-than-average is extremely unlikely to crop up in any meaningful way.

You give the example of sexual attraction. Typically, I think the 'Having a type' thing can be dealt with in quite broad strokes. The old cliché, tall, dark and handsome are all distinct but vague features. The actual height isn't stipulated, but can be assumed to be 'tall enough so you'd notice but not so much it's freakish', the dark implies Mediterranean skin-tones maybe but definitely dark hair, and the handsome element kind of has to be assumed from context. Any of these features, if distinct enough to tick any of the tall-dark-handsome checklist, is going to be distinct enough to be put in a character sheet unprompted.

Either way, I think it's partly me still sulking that a nurse gave me sass when I didn't know how much I weighed and we're probably getting off topic, especially since my own personal gripe is mainly against weight, because it's not even a part of appearance. I typically play short males (short enough to merit an unprompted note in the CS, no less!) because it's a nice way to explore their confidence. I agree height probably is a relevant feature insofar as appearance can be, but if a player hasn't mentioned it, it's probably because the character's height is average enough to not bother to mention.

[Prince]

tl:dr Jig likes her men tall, dark and handsome.

Edit: I say that and judged your gender based on profile pic. I have no idea... lol

[Jig]

Prince said
tl:dr Jig likes her men tall, dark and handsome.

This is not entirely untrue.

I was going to use blonde-and-big-boobed as an example of a type, but nobody was calling for boob-size to be put in the character sheets - though tbh, I can't think of any reason height should go in a sheet that doesn't also apply to bust (apart from RPs that have 'reaching things' as a fundamental element thereof).

[Prince]

a) Unfortunately, I'm fair skinned and of average height, so I only meet one criteria. Sorry. :P

b) I would totally list "cup size" on a female appearance sheet, but I'm fairly sure EVERY SINGLE potential roelplayer would assume the worst. I mean, how could they know it was for the Jig Clause?

[Shienvien]

I must agree - build, height, et cetera can have significant impact, psychologically and in practice. My sheets always contain height, even when not asked, and although I probably would not put exact weight, build will be there. And I will probably also note whether the character's hair is just an inch long or reaches back to their tailbone, or whether they are pale as snow or near-black, or anything in between...

Physical effects left aside, it all helps to visualize the scene. I always visualize the scenes I am writing, and the more I have on appearance, the easier it is to do. Everything else is either filled in at random or just left at the "vaguely anthropomorphic blob" stage.

Just imagine two guys: one is scrawny and stands at 5'3'' or so, and the other is 7'1'' and rather strongly built. Perfectly realistic difference. Knowing noting else about them, and other things about their appearance being similar, would you approach them in the same way? Or would you be intimidated by the latter more than the former if it is just the two of you? ("He was well over two meters tall and 125 kilograms of pure muscle" is most likely enough to conclude that you probably do not want to get into a physical fight with that guy. Heck, I've heard such physical attributes noted often enough in casual descriptions by other people...) One could also imagine that the latter may have to watch out for lower doorframes, whereas the former may need a chair to get that box from the upper shelf. And so on and so forth.

[Prince]

I watched the Mountain the Viper, bro. Don't fuck with those tiny guys.

Anyway, yeah, see those are points I'd consider. I do believe Jig's point was that if the traits were notable, they would be, but making them a requirement may be unneeded.

[Jig]

Jig's Very Suitable Partner is more than tall, dark, and handsome enough for me, but thank you for letting me know. If my standards drop, I'll drop you a line. ;)

New B!tching!
Sheets not formatted how the GM has presented them, especially when explicitly stated to do so. Not bolding headings really isn't excusable in my book and, depending on the mood, I would ignore the sheet until it was fixed. It's hard to read and looks ugly and I would have specifically instructed players to format their sheet with coding (and reminded them that the coding would be findable in the raw post togglebox thing in the corner. Grrr.

Continued B!tch Rebuttal!

Shienvien said Just imagine two guys: one is scrawny and stands at 5'3'' or so, and the other is 7'1'' and rather strongly built. Perfectly realistic difference.

As I've said, being distinctly taller or shorter than average is the kind of thing that the average player would think to put in their sheet anyway. I'm not saying never ever tell me how tall you are and let me guess. I'm saying that the appearance section shouldn't be obliged by default to provide non-notable traits of the character.

Edit:
As Prince said. You both ninja'd me consecutively. Bastards.

[Shienvien]

Another note: person's definition of "average height" is not necessarily a match for another person's "average height". For me, the average height for man would be 6'2'' or so, and for a woman 5'8'' or so. What's your "average height"?

[Prince]

Jig's Very Suitable Partner is more than tall, dark, and handsome enough for me, but thank you for letting me know. If my standards drop, I'll drop you a line. ;)

Whoa, calm down there. I just wanted to call myself handsome. Lol

---

I change sheets ALL the time to make the information more aesthetically pleasing and organized. I never omit anything. I actually do it in nearly every roleplay I'm in and often don't even follow a common trend; I merely try to optimize a sheet how I see fit. I don't think changing a sheet is as big of a problem as just pushing through it without putting in a decent amount of effort.Stealing Raw Text makes it suuuper simple.

Edit

What the fuck, Shien? I'm 5'7" I'm shorter than your average female height. Average White Male Height is only like 5'10.5" in the US.

What country of giants are you from, broski?

[Shienvien]

As I've said, being distinctly taller or shorter than average is the kind of thing that the average player would think to put in their sheet anyway.

As I noted: One person's tall is another person's tiny. It has happened before that a person puts "average height" in, only for me to ask afterwards, and subsequently realize said character is actually either tiny or positively out-towers what I consider average height.

I am from Estonia. We are tall... I myself am 5'9.5'' and hopelessly out-towered by most of my male friends, acquaintances and colleagues. (And the third-shortest person of my family.)

[Jig]

Shienvien said
Another note: person's definition of "average height" is not necessarily a match for another person's "average height". For me, the average height for man would be 6'2'' or so, and for a woman 5'8'' or so. What's your "average height"?

Actually, this is a valid point. Since I have no frame of reference (I'm really stupid at visual-spacial stuff - I can't compare two lengths if they aren't right next to one another, read maps, remember locations, imagine 3D shapes, etc), average height for me is one that doesn't make me go "Hey, that guy's short/tall."

Clearly, this is an imperfect system.

Still, beyond obvious-height-differences-based-on-notable-heights-referred-to-in-CS's, most people can't gage another person's height against their own. Remember that thing everybody used to do in the playground where they'd go back to back and get somebody else to judge who was taller? If it's a matter of 6"1 to 6"2, that's very unlikely to get any IC application.

Prince said
Whoa, calm down there. I just wanted to call myself handsome.

...

I'm shorter than your average female height.

Just as well you only wanted to call yourself handsome, because your pitch is really nose-diving now.