Let's B!tch. I feel it's a healthy release for our roleplay annoyances 2.0

[Jig]

I'll target the bits where we dispute.

Brovo said Except Pikachu isn't real. This would be like if I wrote that all Chinese people want to eat babies and murder Americans and . See how that might be offensive?

A single fictional not-very-accurately-written psychopath isn't real either. They're fictional. I don't really follow your point. An individual representation of a particular demographic does not constitute stereotyping that entire demographic.

My offense, my feelings on something, are not justifiable means for which to call others to stop doing it altogether. If that's what gets your plot rolling, and you enjoy it, fantastic, but I won't enjoy it.

Honestly? I think it's lazy and a cop-out. I discovered it when studying Othello in sixth form and realised Iago was basically Shakespeare going "Gotta write a play somehow" and invented a character just to fuck with the others. But let's be academic. :)

Ironically, you mention Halloween. A film where the main antagonist has a back story.

D'you know, I watch the Hallowe'en films like, every, well, Hallowe'en because they're always on the telly (for some reason) and I've never actually picked up on that. This is both perhaps a bit embarrassing and also maybe is a nice example of my point: for some things, the audience really doesn't care. A better example might be natural disaster films, where the antagonist is not even personified. Nobody asks the sharks their opinion in Sharknado. It's taken for granted that sharks are assholes, and they're assholes when they can sort-of fly, too.

Anything that is generic is stereotypical. Anything that is stereotypical is generally overdone and boring. You at least want to put a unique twist to something, to make it yours, or just to make it different. You can use generic for unimportant things, but for something as important as a main antagonist? You better give them a personality, a history, a face--something.

When I say 'generic', I mean 'antagonist by design', which is my fault for not being clear - I meant those antagonists whose motives aren't really relevant, or boil down to the woolly "Just because".

And you're right, being creative and original with a Just Because villain really is necessary, or there simply is no content there. I think the Joker from The Dark Knight is probably the ultimate example of a Just Because villain done right: he's quirky and funny, and almost literally shallow. I'm pretty sure he never takes his make-up off and that we find out nothing about him as a character. What people will remember about the Joker will be his funniness, destructiveness, and lines like "Some people just want to watch the world burn".

[nichinichisou]

Reading through some of these posts, the bits about the 'generic psychopath' sometimes gives me memories and make me feel like 'wow holy shit i did things wrong'

[Brovo]

Jig said I'll target the bits where we dispute.A single fictional not-very-accurately-written psychopath isn't real either. They're fictional. I don't really follow your point. An individual representation of a particular demographic does not constitute stereotyping that entire demographic.

Except it does affect how people see psychotics, and if you don't believe me, look at the general media. Look at the next time they see a psychotic killer. Are they going to focus on what was likely an abhorrent life? Nope. The warning signs that he or she was about to snap, likely shown for multiple years? Nope, maybe a footnote. The fact that they're psychotic and all psychotics are monsters and you should look for X, Y, and Z warning signs to keep yourself safe? Yup.

The way society looks at the mentally unstable is absolutely contributing to the loneliness and desperation that many of them feel. Hollywood and the general news media are not helping in this regard, they're generally making it worse by constantly pumping this stereotypical crap into people's heads.

Again, I don't think it's necessarily morally wrong to do so, nor am I even going to pretend that a person who is psychotic doesn't need help--they absolutely do. Just that on a personal level? Yes, it bothers me, and yes, it's a more apt comparison to dehumanizing and making monsters out of a national/ethnic group like Chinese or Russians. Which, again, both are often used as generic villains. Because they exist, and so do psychotics. Whether you make one evil Chinese person or millions of evil Chinese people, or one evil psychotic or millions of evil psychotics, it's a more valid comparison than Pikachu, because they exist. Pikachu does not.

Do I really think it needs to stop? No. Do I think more awareness needs to be put on the issue so people realize that these are just movies and what not? Yes. Does it still disturb me when people make these types of monster characters thinking that's a real, accurate representation? Absolutely.

Other than that I agree with what you said.

LowKey123 said Reading through some of these posts, the bits about the 'generic psychopath' sometimes gives me memories and make me feel like 'wow holy shit i did things wrong'

Don't worry about it? It's not like you're a bad person, especially if you didn't know. Just think about it and do some research and that's really all I can or would ask of you. It's not like I'm going to ask you to stop enjoying things like Halloween or Friday the Thirteenth or etc: They're classics for a reason.

[Jig]

Brovo said
Except it affect how people see psychotics, and if you don't believe me, look at the general media. Look at the next time they see a psychotic killer. Are they going to focus on what was likely an abhorrent life? Nope. The warning signs that he or she was about to snap, likely shown for multiple ? Nope, maybe a footnote. The fact that they're psychotic and all psychotics are monsters and you should look for X, Y, and Z warning signs to keep yourself safe? Yup.The way society looks at the mentally unstable is absolutely contributing to the loneliness and desperation that many of them feel. Hollywood and the general news media are not helping in this regard, they're generally making it worse by constantly pumping this stereotypical crap into people's heads.

It's hard for me to disagree with somebody blaming Hollywood. You are probably right here, but I guess my response is:

Does it still disturb me when people make these types of monster characters thinking that's a real, accurate representation?

Professional storytellers shouldn't really be excused in the same way, but to lament RPers over-simplification of psychotically villainous characters I think over-estimates what the bulk of RPers are here to do and, in many cases, their ability to do it. From what I've seen from RPers in general is a lack of real thought into their characters, and how they fit thematically into a given RP and their role in terms of its conflict. To imagine the average RPer researching anything about their characters apart from a nice photo, let alone looking into the complex causes and symptoms of psychological disorders and mental illnesses (or whatever other umbrella term has psychopathy within it) that might underpin their character's behaviour. I don't think they're remotely thinking about the accuracy of their portrayal one way or another. Psychopaths are awesome in films and therefore their psychotic RP character is awesome. That's all that counts (, right?).

It's patronising, but I still think RPing is largely about wish fulfilment for a lot of players (I'd wager half to three quarters). As the projection is typically for something the player doesn't have (even if it's simply an adventurous lifestyle available to most fictional characters), it stands to reason their specific subject knowledge may well be superficial without the research they don't have commitment to do. Inaccuracies are inevitable. It's not necessarily that psychopathy is over-simplified in RP-land: everything is, and you, as somebody that seems to be more enlightened on the subject that most, pick up on those inaccuracies.

I remember having been in a Harry Potter RP (or, one set in that world), and, being a bit of a buff, I could see players making lore-inaccuracies all over the shop from smaller fuck-ups to conjuring food (straight-up impossible in HP lore and a legit if small plot-point). At first I tried to hint that maybe inaccuracies had possibly been perhaps made, but nobody cared in the slightest. Even when politely directed to a clear source of canon information, no attempts were made to try to fit the canon. The consensus wasn't interested in its realism (in this case, realistic means 'a credible part of the HP world'); they just wanted to tangentially experience being special and having the magic powers to do whatever they wanted. Psychopath characters are basically the same, as far as I can see.

It's just the same old traits* of RPing (simplification, amateurism and wish-fulfilment), really, but I can see how they perpetuate societal misunderstandings and why people interested in those things being misunderstood may be concerned. I don't think RPing is itself the problem, though, and more the symptom of what the players see in the media and attempt to artistically replicate - not that they won't cut out the fiddly bits and concentrate on the awesome and badass parts anyway.

Frankly, I think we're getting distracted by the psychopaths and should be concentrating on the existential plight of inexplicably-transfigured food.

[Brovo]

Now that is something I can agree on. Wish fulfillment and all that jazz. Which reminds me, to get this back on topic...

New Gripe: "You're not allowed to do X to my character." When stated to a GM as a player. Especially if the GM has already made it clear that the world is completely his.

Also people that try to stuff anime characters in explicitly not anime role plays.

[SyrianHamster]

Brovo said
Also people that try to stuff anime characters in explicitly not anime role plays.

This.

EDIT: I also enjoy the PMs you get, demanding to know why it is you're against anime. You try to explain to them that the world isn't suitable for an anime character, and they take it to mean you hate the genre.

[Brovo]

SyrianHamster said
This.EDIT: I also enjoy the PMs you get, demanding to know why it is you're against anime. You try to explain to them that the world isn't suitable for an anime character, and they take it to mean you hate the genre.

Well, 90% of the genre is complete garbage, at least going by Sturgeon's Law. Not that western television is any better, mind you... Why we glorify stupid I'll never know nor want to.

[SyrianHamster]

Brovo said
Well, 90% of the genre complete garbage, at least going by Sturgeon's Law. Not that western television is , mind you... Why we glorify stupid I'll never know nor want to.

Alright, I'll come clean, I can't stand it. It doesn't appeal to me at all. The people who base their characters on it usually copy and paste them from their favourite shows, bar a few differences. The characters are always kind of flat, and never seem to develop.

I've no problem with people liking it, making Rps of it, etc etc, I just hate it when they try to infiltrate a nitty gritty RP designed for realistic character concepts.

[Rtron]

Writing a personality. Asking me to give a few quirks and traits, fine. Two paragraphs describing how my character typically acts? I hate it with every fiber of my being. It sounds simple. But it is not.

[Jig]

Rtron said
Writing a personality. Asking me to give a few quirks and traits, fine. Two paragraphs describing how my character typically acts? I hate it with every fiber of my being. It sounds simple. But it is not.

Generally a test on behalf of the GM when a limit is stipulated. Can the player write two paragraphs? It's arbitrary and generally pointless, but it's asked for for a reason.

SyrianHamster said You try to explain to them that the world isn't suitable for an anime character, and they take it to mean you hate the genre.

I may have already bitched about this (it's worth a rebitch anyway), but I once launched an RP based on an animé world, but an explicitly and fundamentally 'realistic' version of it - that was, basically, the point. The first post I got was complaining that it wasn't animé.

[Rtron]

Jig said
Generally a test on behalf of the GM when a limit is stipulated. Can the player write two paragraphs? It's arbitrary and generally pointless, but it's asked for for a reason

Fair enough.

[Jig]

Rtron said
Fair enough.

It's a shame it's a bad reason. It's difficult for GM's to vet players if they are so inclined, especially new ones with no real post history to speak of or not in the same section as the current RP and so arbitrary quantity standards are imposed, even though quantity is generally meaningless.

It's hard to stipulate 'quality' because that's not really measurable and, frankly, should be taken for granted.

[Rtron]

True, but quantity does have some importance. Balanced with quality, admittedly, but still. When interacting with another person's character, quantity is as important as quality, if not more so. Quality writing is nice, but no matter how good it is, someone's response is limited by how much is given for them to respond to. An extreme example is one liners. I could give you the best quality one liner you've ever read. But that's all you'd have to respond to, and that would limit you badly. So I can see why a GM would want a quantity test. I just wish they wouldn't do it with mandatory personalitys.

Back on topic: When you plan for an epic moment to write sometime in the future of an RP, off the top of my head, a character seeking death sacrificing themselves, or a romantic subplot finally reaching its peak, annnnnnd then the RP dies. And you realize that you will never have that kind of opportunity again. That character and that epic moment will never work so perfectly in any other RP scenario.

[Prince]

Quality writing is nice, but no matter how good it is, someone's response is limited by how much is given for them to respond to.

Double-edged sword right there. You're addressing the medium by which we communicate interaction as if it was the determinate factor, and it's not. You're missing the real factor on what an individual has to reply to: content. What is dialogue? Often, they are several one-liners back and forth of characters just speaking. Yet, technically, they are sentences. In that scenario, that is adequate. You could say, "well, fine, but in conversation, you're limited to relpying with more conversation", and that's not true. If a character says something to upset or enrage another character, that character can react in a myriad of ways ranging from decking the speaker to bursting out in tears.

Interaction is the key aspect of roleplay, plain and simple. Thus, every post we make has to communicate using the same encoding/decoding/message/decoding/encoding/feedback setup as any other form of communication, including elements of noise, environment and medium. When you say quality, what do you mean? The literary technique and skill applied to a single sentence? Or, do you mean effectively encoding that message in a way that will limit noise and listener decoding issues? Both are applicable. Sure, you can give more content, more quantity to the message, but to what avail?

The real aspect to look at here is the message itself, the content. When encoding and designing the message, understanding how much information and how to structure that information to create the best possible feedback and illicit a response of similar caliber should be the goal. Quality and quantity are just aspects to that message and can vary from situation to situation. That would best promote proper communication and thus support the interaction within a roleplay, which is in fact its primary element.

[Chapatrap]

I've been RP'ing on and off in the Casual section for a few years now (pre-guildfall) but I usually stuck with a group of guys on the old forum I was on. On the old forum, it was generally split into 'Hardcore' and 'Casuals', which are the equivalent of RPGuild 'Advanced' and 'Free'. Hardcore RP'ers generally stuck together and we all had a big thing of making original RP's (usually nation based). It was a bit of a culture shock when all of these guys and I decided to migrate over to RPGuild for good and found that the Advanced section contained Anime RP's (among other things we would never have found more in the Hardcore circle of the old forum).

The Advanced section, to me, seems to be a bit of a ghost town and the few RP's that do exist in it seem to be anime/canon RP's, which I have little interest in doing (Star Wars RP's are my weak spot). So I find myself now looking through Casual and Nation's for something interesting that'll let me write a bit and is at least original. I'm having little luck so far. I'm considering GM'ing but with the success rate of RP's on this site so low, I'm not even sure it's worth it.

[Rtron]

Prince said Double-edged sword...

Hm. Never thought about it that way before.

Chapatrap said I'm considering GM'ing but with the success rate of RP's on this site so low, I'm not even sure it's worth it.

Pretty much, as I've found, there are a couple ways to success. You can keep it a relatively short RP with a definite end, or you find a core group of people who you like to RP with and you know they're dependable, and won't disappear on you without damn good reasons.

[Jig]

Chapatrap said
I've been RP'ing on and off in the Casual section for a few years now (pre-guildfall) but I usually stuck with a group of guys on the old forum I was on. On the old forum, it was generally split into 'Hardcore' and 'Casuals', which are the equivalent of RPGuild 'Advanced' and 'Free'. Hardcore RP'ers generally stuck together and we all had a big thing of making original RP's (usually nation based). It was a bit of a culture shock when all of these guys and I decided to migrate over to RPGuild for good and found that the Advanced section contained Anime RP's (among other things we would never have found more in the Hardcore circle of the old forum).The Advanced section, to me, seems to be a bit of a ghost town and the few RP's that do exist in it seem to be anime/canon RP's, which I have little interest in doing (Star Wars RP's are my weak spot). So I find myself now looking through Casual and Nation's for something interesting that'll let me write a bit and is at least original. I'm having little luck so far. I'm considering GM'ing but with the success rate of RP's on this site so low, I'm not even sure it's worth it.

There's a lot of (justifiable) defeatism here that's kind of self-perpetuating.

If you don't go into the Advanced Section because it's not busy enough, you don't contribute to it or help it to grow into a busier, more active section.

Also, if you won't create the kind of RP you want to be in (for whatever reason), you really aren't in a position to complain that that RP hasn't been created. If it doesn't take off or dies, it's not an idea that's gone forever and been wasted. Put it in the mushroom cupboard, see what grows and bring it back with a better understanding of what worked and what didn't. I think you're exaggerating the proportion of canon RPs in Advanced anyway. Scrolling through the first page of threads, I counted ten (out of thirty) that were probably canon-inspired (I don't recognise a lot of the things that tend to have fans that RP).

Your defeatism is understandable because RPing can be frustrating, but it doesn't actually help your situation.

[SyrianHamster]

I got a new one: When people ask for a description of your character... but then also ask for weight and height.

[Derpestein]

SyrianHamster said
I got a new one: When people ask for a description of your character... but then also ask for weight and height.

What's wrong with that?

[Rare]

SyrianHamster said
I got a new one: When people ask for a description of your character... but then also ask for weight and height.

I don't see nothing wrong with that at all :l