Let's B!tch. I feel it's a healthy release for our roleplay annoyances 2.0

[tsukune]

[+]

]@Strawberry425

In regards to your discussion on Advanced RPing -
I come to and fro from the guild every once in a while. As I've grown up (I joined back in 2009, or maybe earlier) my writing has improved considerably (Partially due to maturity, partially due to AP English). I used to struggle at writing at a casual level, but now writing as a character I can pull off advanced.

I think the issues are really as follows-

1. No one pays attention to the 18+ rules. I sure as hell didn't. Lots of people here are probably the good writer in their friend group, and get 100s on every English assignment. I never was. But there is simply no way a fourteen year old no matter how talented can write at what was considered the advanced level. At that age the chances you've been in an actually serious relationship are small, you feel like your the only one whos experiencing what's going on in your life, and you are most likely confused. It is really hard to roleplay well when you have NO life experience. While logically many fourteen year olds know this, they don't really believe or understand it. In some ways, the snobiness of the old guild kept this out.

2. Being able to roleplay at an advanced level does not mean you can GM at an advanced level. I've realized recently I can't, and I probably should train my GM abilities at a lower level where quick posting will let me get a lot of experience.

3. A lack of patience. Partially tied into point 1. Rps where people post about once a week have great quality. It gives people plenty of time for others to think about a response, write that response, and then sleep on it. When you come back the next day chances are you will fix the post up considerably and the quality will be much higher as a result. I really think this is the biggest difference between high-cas and advanced as categories. Length isn't what makes advanced, and you should have character development by high casual. What makes a post advanced is being willing to come back the next day an improve the quality.

@RabidAnubis

1. I don't really ask for the age of my partners because personally I don't care much, but I will get concerned if a young adult thinks s/he is mature enough to pull off 18+ stuffs with me. Even if s/he only just turned 18, I'm still not keen to go down that gutter with someone who barely has any experience to do them properly.

2. That's so true for me too - I can roleplay at Advanced level, but I'm a shitty GM. Not that it really matters since I'm a nobody in group RPs. I'm pretty content with sticking to 1x1 for now.

3. I'm the type who would constantly revisit my old posts and wrestle out any mistakes - no matter how minor they are because I'm just a hopeless perfectionist. I tend to reread previous posts to remind myself to keep up with consistency as I work on my next post.

[Weird Tales]

I really wished Free roleplays got more people and dedication like casual does.

[AlteredTundra]

I really wished Free roleplays got more people and dedication like casual does.

@Weird Tales

When I think of "Free", I think of one-liners and horrible grammar. Now, I don't know if it's true or not, but I think that's why people don't go there -- especially those of us who are mid-cas and above.

[Mirandae]

I now understand why people here have "black lists". I didn't want to get one myself, but I might have to.

[AlteredTundra]

I now understand why people here have "black lists". I didn't want to get one myself, but I might have to.

@Prisk

Personally, I have yet come to that place where I need a "blacklist" for people on RPG, but I guess it sucks when one does. There are just some people out there that strike one the wrong way(I'm assuming).

[Gowi]

I love free-level RPs if you can trust the players. You can make great stories on the tip of a hat with new CS's or extensive lore. It can be fun. But I think the only way I can have a RP like that is if I restricted it to my friends/people I know.

[Dinh AaronMk]

I love free-level RPs if you can trust the players. You can make great stories on the tip of a hat with new CS's or extensive lore. It can be fun. But I think the only way I can have a RP like that is if I restricted it to my friends/people I know.

@Gowi

Really you can do anything with friends or people you know more than random strangers. In that sense you know where your partners can or are willing to go and what their experience and skill lies. And it may be me, but friends are someone to trust to not blow up pre-planning to end up serving their own self-interests as I'm afraid strangers might; so I can reveal all or most to them beforehand and we can collaborate more closely to put together a more coherent story.

[Weird Tales]

<Snipped quote by Weird Tales>

When I think of "Free", I think of one-liners and horrible grammar. Now, I don't know if it's true or not, but I think that's why people don't go there -- especially those of us who are mid-cas and above.

@Altered Tundra

sometimes it's good to relax and not get blasted by the snobs that exist on the guild. Free is where people can write without having too much standards.

[AlteredTundra]

<Snipped quote by Altered Tundra>

sometimes it's good to relax and not get blasted by the snobs that exist on the guild. Free is where people can write without having too much standards.

@Weird Tales

And that's good for people who enjoy that freedom. I'm just the type of writer who likes to challenge himself with certain goals and standards. It's the reason why I'm usually a High Casual and Advanced roleplayer. It's not broken, so why fix it, right?

[Weird Tales]

<Snipped quote by Weird Tales>

And that's good for people who enjoy that freedom. I'm just the type of writer who likes to challenge himself with certain goals and standards. It's the reason why I'm usually a High Casual and Advanced roleplayer. It's not broken, so why fix it, right?

@Altered Tundra

who said it's broken? Not everyone wants to write and roleplay the same way, simple as that. I do casual most of the time, but I like free because it's more relaxing and easier to test out new characters to see which ones work for roleplaying and which ones don't. I love causal, but some of my worst experiences on the Guild usually come from there, also the most judgemental and snobby do tend to hang around that part of the guild.

[Dinh AaronMk]

I like NRP because most of the times if a storyline isn't working and provided it's self-contained enough I can drop it and move to any of the other half-dozen I'm operating at the same time within my "nation". And then when so much time has passed where I feel I can reboot the dropped story I can go back to that on the drop of a hat.

There's something liberating about playing NRP as a multi-character RP and not a stat-based, text-based version of Civ 5.

[AlteredTundra]

<Snipped quote by Altered Tundra>

who said it's broken? Not everyone wants to write and roleplay the same way, simple as that. I do casual most of the time, but I like free because it's more relaxing and easier to test out new characters to see which ones work for roleplaying and which ones don't. I love causal, but some of my worst experiences on the Guild usually come from there, also the most judgemental and snobby do tend to hang around that part of the guild.

@Weird Tales

You misunderstand; I wasn't saying that free was broken, but rather my approach to things. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

I can agree that some parts of Casual and Advanced are a bit snobbish, but that's like...every few people; at least, to my knowledge, that is. With that being said, however, I do know what you mean about how it's a pretty bad experience. I had to drop a rp a while back due to that very reason, which sucked since I loved that rp.

[Gowi]

We have to remember we're all here to have fun and for some people writing with "certain levels" of people make them not have fun. It's maybe a bit elitist but its true-- I can't imagine having a lot of fun with the style of posts in free for example.

[January]

I'll have to ask forgiveness for not reading all 53 pages of this thread, so if this random complaint has already come up and been beaten to death, then that's my bad.

This isn't something I've encountered explicitly on RPG (at least, not yet--the night is still young and whatnot seeing as I've only recently joined), but just something I've come across fairly often on other RP forums: minimum length requirements per post.

This is different from recommended lengths, which serve as a rule of thumb to elicit more detail than just "he said, she said, he ran, she ran."

While I tend to align my posting style with the GM's demands out of respect for the hard work they've put into creating a RP, I personally do not feel comfortable with RPs that demand "at least x number of paragraphs per post." My philosophy has always been "If you can do everything you need and want to do in one line, then do it in one line." Obviously, this is an extreme, but the point is I've come across RPs that emphasize quantity over quality and have always found myself a little annoyed when a GM PMs me saying "Your latest post is one paragraph short of the requirements." At least give me a reason other than length, even if you have to lie about it. I would gladly edit a post if I was unclear, or if I forgot to address something I should have, but requiring useless fluff just to meet min. reqs. is a little offensive to the craft and process of writing.

Concision is an art form, I believe, one I'm still struggling heavily to improve in my writing style, and I really can't put up with people who want length for the sake of length.

[AlteredTundra]

I'll have to ask forgiveness for not reading all 53 pages of this thread, so if this random complaint has already come up and been beaten to death, then that's my bad.

This isn't something I've encountered explicitly on RPG (at least, not yet--the night is still young and whatnot seeing as I've only recently joined), but just something I've come across fairly often on other RP forums: minimum length requirements per post.

This is different from recommended lengths, which serve as a rule of thumb to elicit more detail than just "he said, she said, he ran, she ran."

While I tend to align my posting style with the GM's demands out of respect for the hard work they've put into creating a RP, I personally do not feel comfortable with RPs that demand "at least x number of paragraphs per post." My philosophy has always been "If you can do everything you need and want to do in one line, then do it in one line." Obviously, this is an extreme, but the point is I've come across RPs that emphasize quantity over quality and have always found myself a little annoyed when a GM PMs me saying "Your latest post is one paragraph short of the requirements." At least give me a reason other than length, even if you have to lie about it. I would gladly edit a post if I was unclear, or if I forgot to address something I should have, but requiring useless fluff just to meet min. reqs. is a little offensive to the craft and process of writing.

Concision is an art form, I believe, one I'm still struggling heavily to improve in my writing style, and I really can't put up with people who want length for the sake of length.

@January

The minimum post requirements are to ensure the quality of the rp does not waver with a few people who'd rather not do it because of x and y reasons. The fact of the matter is that, if one cannot maintain the minimal amount of length for one's post, then it's more than likely that the person in question probably shouldn't be joining that rp because it might be too much for them(they might be a casual writer, but are trying High Cas or Low Advanced).

The GMs want to enforce certain standards and the bare minimum of paragraphs within posts are doing just that. I understand your gripes about it forcing your hand or whatever, but you also have to put yourself in the mind of the GM. Like stated, they want to maintain certain standards throughout their game and by extension, their players.

For me personally, I really have no problems with it. If I really want to be in a certain game, I will do my best to meet the minimum requirements of posts(which usually is only 2-3 paragraphs, so it's not like it's that much). Of course, there are some games that require 4-5 paragraphs on average and that's usually too much for me haha; so again, I understand your qualms with it,@January. Things like that could definitely kill the flow of creativity within one's noggin. :/

[January]

There are a few implications in your post that I hope aren't intended to be insults in my direction. If it's just a general observation, then don't mind this.

Also, I believe I already addressed my understanding of the quality concerns in an RP and my usual tendency to respect a GM's wishes--telling me to put myself into the mind of the GM implies I don't take their concerns into consideration at all, which is entirely false.

I'll be specific to avoid future misunderstanding: I've been in RPs where strict minimum requirements of five or more paragraphs per post have caused players to resort to rather desperate fluff tactics such as describing vast amounts of unnecessary details to meet the minimum. No one needs to know your character's strangely focused observation of the composition and wood striations of a door when the scene's focus is a raucous bar fight happening right behind that door. Just open the door.

Keep in mind while I dislike min. reqs. overall, I don't particularly mind if they're reasonable and the occasional exception is allowed. I understand where you're coming from, but I think you've misunderstood a lot of what I've said, which is in part due to my lack of specificity.

The RPs I had in mind while typing out the previous post were serious cases of length for length's sake, not just a two-paragraph requirement. The essence of the complaint was that I ran into those types far more often than I would like.

[AlteredTundra]

There are a few implications in your post that I hope aren't intended to be insults in my direction. If it's just a general observation, then don't mind this.

@January

The latter. Sorry, I guess I can come off a bit rude at times without even realizing it.

I'm trying to work on that.

I'll be specific to avoid future misunderstanding: I've been in RPs where strict minimum requirements of five or more paragraphs per post have caused players to resort to rather desperate fluff tactics such as describing vast amounts of unnecessary details to meet the minimum. No one needs to know your character's strangely focused observation of the composition and wood striations of a door when the scene's focus is a raucous bar fight happening right behind that door. Just open the door.

Keep in mind while I dislike min. reqs. overall, I don't particularly mind if they're reasonable and the occasional exception is allowed. I understand where you're coming from, but I think you've misunderstood a lot of what I've said, which is in part due to my lack of specificity.

The RPs I had in mind while typing out the previous post were serious cases of length for length's sake, not just a two-paragraph requirement. The essence of the complaint was that I ran into those types far more often than I would like.

Yeah, again sorry about that. I guess I took it in a way that you didn't mean, and for that I apologize.

[Mixtape Ghost N]

Most of the people who "demand" five paragraphs a post are the tryhard Advanced guys that think length = quality.

I mean, I'm perfectly fine with writing several paragraphs a post (I usually write more for my own RP), but I'm really not fond of that because it's forcing you to write that, instead of naturally letting it occur. Like, I believe that, regardless of the standard, people should write as much as they can - otherwise, they're just using filler.

[January]

@Altered Tundra

No worries. Text loses all the tone and body language that would imply a completely innocuous response, but I admit I was little scared you were about to go in on me when I saw the notification--last thing I want is to get into an argument over personal preferences. Haha.

Most of the people who "demand" five paragraphs a post are the tryhard Advanced guys that think length = quality.

I mean, I'm perfectly fine with writing several paragraphs a post (I usually write more for my own RP), but I'm really not fond of that because it's forcing you to write that, instead of naturally letting it occur. Like, I believe that, regardless of the standard, people should write as much as they can - otherwise, they're just using filler.

@Mr Allen J

I agree--while I often end up typing plenty to address everything I need to and want to, especially in more involved RPs, just the presence of a min. req. distracts me a fair amount because one of my inevitable thoughts as I type is "Okay. I've met the min. req. Good." I don't enjoy thinking that while composing a reply (It just makes me uncomfortable and leaves me with the irrational feeling like I only typed that much to meet a min. req., not because I love the RP and had a lot to say and do. Then the thought nags at me despite my clear knowledge that I really did write this out of enjoyment, not requirement.), though for most that paranoia is probably not an issue. The world is a weird place for fretting neurotics like me.

[Tancuras]

@Altered Tundra

No worries. Text loses all the tone and body language that would imply a completely innocuous response, but I admit I was little scared you were about to go in on me when I saw the notification--last thing I want is to get into an argument over personal preferences. Haha.

<Snipped quote by Mr Allen J>

I agree--while I often end up typing plenty to address everything I need to and want to, especially in more involved RPs, just the presence of a min. req. distracts me a fair amount because one of my inevitable thoughts as I type is "Okay. I've met the min. req. Good." I don't enjoy thinking that while composing a reply (It just makes me uncomfortable and leaves me with the irrational feeling like I only typed that much to meet a min. req., not because I love the RP and had a lot to say and do. Then the thought nags at me despite my clear knowledge that I really did write this out of enjoyment, not requirement.), though for most that paranoia is probably not an issue. The world is a weird place for fretting neurotics like me.

@January

My writing style is fairly action-heavy and it's often really hard to write more than one or two paragraphs at times during interactive scenes, especially since I try to refrain from taking any control of another player's character whatsoever. When writing in a scene that requires input from several people, you can only get so far on your own point of view and self-reflection. So I usually don't include a "paragraph requirement" when I run a thread, I think it's pretty silly.

Anyway, on to the reason I came here...

Man, am I sick of Gary Stus and Mary Sues. So many edgy teenagers who also happen to be "master archers" or "master swordsmen" or "master martial artists" and they're all "wise beyond their years" and they're good at everything and everything goes right for them and there are no consequences for their actions and they have no flaws or if they do they really don't matter anyway. Clusters of cliche and self-insert fantasies.

I miss originality.