United States Government can pretend to be you.

[The Nexerus]

ASTA said I don't call putting the same crooks into positions of power over and over again voting. It's the very definition of insanity, not democracy.

Vote for someone else, then...? Someone new, since you apparently think everyone who currently holds a political position is a crook.

[So Boerd]

No, I didn't. Just reiterating my earlier point. If you were to choose to vote, you would vote for policies I disagree with, therefore while I defend your right to vote, I won't convince you to exercise it.

[ASTA]

The Nexerus said
Vote for someone else, then...? Someone new, since you apparently think everyone who currently holds a political position is a crook.

Tell that to all of the Republican and Democratic voters, whom make up the vast majority of voters in the US.

As I said, sheep.

So Boerd said
No, I didn't. Just reiterating my earlier point. If you were to choose to vote, you would vote for policies I disagree with, therefore while I defend your right to vote, I won't convince you to exercise it.

Ok.

[The Nexerus]

ASTA said
Tell that to all of the Republican and Democratic voters, whom make up the vast majority of voters in the US. As I said, sheep.

Have you ever considered that the people voting for representatives associated with those parties are satisfied with who it is that they're voting for? Not everyone in your country has the same views as you, so not everyone is going to think of all Democrats and/or all Republicans as old crooks.

[Vortex]

One vote can make a difference. And image all the political apathetic people who share the same voew and don't vote, image what could happen

Examples of when votes make a difference:
http://www.abc.net.au/civics/demos/powerone.htm

[ASTA]

The Nexerus said
Have you ever considered that the people voting for representatives associated with those parties are satisfied with who it is that they're voting for? Not everyone in your country has the same views as you, so not everyone is going to think of all Democrats and/or all Republicans as old crooks.

And in other news, the Sun is very hot!

[The Nexerus]

ASTA said
And in other news, the Sun is very hot!

People aren't automatically insane if they disagree with you. It was an incredibly close-minded statement.

[ASTA]

.

[ASTA]

The Nexerus said
People aren't automatically insane if they disagree with you. It was an incredibly close-minded statement.

You have a habit of taking my viewpoints and opinions and coming up with some very extreme interpretations of them. This is the second time you've done that.

[Vortex]

The Nexerus said
People aren't automatically insane if they disagree with you. It was an incredibly close-minded statement.

I don't think she actually stated that. She said they are sheep and a lot of them are thanks to "Tribal Mentality", but to generalise that to all people is, yes, a little closed minded

ASTA said
You have a habit of taking my viewpoints and opinions and coming up with some very extreme interpretations of them. This is the second time you've done that.

For you maybe

[ASTA]

I never said it was because of tribal mentality, though humans are social animals and have an innate drive to form into collectives comprised of individuals that share similar physical characteristics and/or psychological patterns with one another. Humans are naturally biased and prejudiced which goes hand-in-hand with tribalism. Republicans and Democrats are just two (very large) groups of humans that have similar viewpoints, with each one rejecting and opposing some (or most) of the viewpoints of its counterpart. Competition comes in the form of both parties vying for control of various sectors of the US Government.

[Dipper]

ASTA said
You have a habit of taking my viewpoints and opinions and coming up with some very extreme interpretations of them. This is the second time you've done that.

"hab·it
ˈhabət/
noun
1.
a settled or regular tendency or practice, especially one that is hard to give up."

"Second time"

Um... Not sure you know what that means.

[ASTA]

Dipper said
"hab·itˈhabət/noun1.a settled or regular tendency or practice, especially one that is hard to give up.""Second time"Um... Not sure you know what that means.

I was referring to a previous thread that was recently locked.

[Rtron]

ASTA said
I don't call putting the same crooks into positions of power over and over again voting. It's the very definition of insanity, not democracy.

You're right, but you're also wrong. It is democracy, even if you don't like it. The people elect representatives and then either keep them or get rid of them when election time rolls around.

ASTA said Those that try to demean and downgrade others for not voting are only striving for a petty moral high-ground in a vain effort to make themselves feel more important than what they actually are. It's pathetic, and only reinforces the fact that you are a misguided sheep ignorant of what really goes on in your nation.

I'm sorry if you thought I was trying to demean you. I wasn't, I was stating fact. You complain about the government, and do nothing about it. Its apathetic, and slightly hypocritical. You claim we're all sheep. Well, enlighten me then. Explain to me why I shouldn't vote, and why you're right.

[Vortex]

ASTA said
I never said it was because of tribal mentality, though humans are social animals and have an innate drive to form into collectives comprised of individuals that share similar physical characteristics and/or psychological patterns with one another. Humans are naturally biased and prejudiced which goes hand-in-hand with tribalism. Republicans and Democrats are just two (very large) groups of humans that have similar viewpoints, with each one rejecting and opposing some (or most) of the viewpoints of its counterpart. Competition comes in the form of both parties vying for control of various sectors of the US Government.

Apologies. I was supposed to say that was my view which would comfirm what you stated earlier

Dipper said
"hab·itˈhabət/noun1.a settled or regular tendency or practice, especially one that is hard to give up.""Second time"Um... Not sure you know what that means.

ASTA said
I was referring to a previous thread that was recently locked.

^^

[mdk]

I prefer that people don't vote, actually. Voting is a political act of consent. I'm a conservative with New York State residency -- I am absolutely systematically marginalized, and I'm not going to let them pretend that 'well it's not that bad, he gets his vote.' Don't 'ROCK THE VOTE.' Rocking the vote gives them permission to use your voice, even if you vote against something. You're told that it is your civic duty to cast a vote, by the people who spend billions to control your vote. What does that tell you? It's important to THEM, sure.

What do I mean, well, look, if the US federal election had 100% voter participation 100% of the time, then the feds would make 100% of the decisions that impact you. Because 'that would be fair.' Fuck that. I don't need or want a government to make *ANY* decisions that impact me, if I can help it. So as far as I'm concerned, we can get by just fine on 1% voter participation. Then we all know the score. There would be no illusion that the federal government represents anything but itself. I don't think the government (or people, for that matter) should be expected to think of anything but themselves.

[Vortex]

Yes but then the feds will say "Whatever, that was your choice not to vote" and continue ruling anyway even if the voting pop. is only 1%. They don't give a shit if the votes drop to zero they will keep ruling. At least with voting you have a chance to help change something, like voting for a fringe? Or maybe not... Im not entirely sure how the american system works.

Anyway, whats your solution mdk? Dare I say a revolution?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Dipper said I doubt that the mods would lock the page over that.

I'll highlight the same thing here that Brovo has highlighted to me several times in the past.
This is not a debate site, it's a roleplaying site. Even if OT is the best place on the Guild for debates, debating was never the purpose.

In other (my) words, the site is not made for debates, the Admins and Mods are not Admins and Mods to track debates, but to help roleplayers.
As a result you will get Admins and Mods closing threads often because of conflict. I mean, I've seen conflict on other sites a hundred times bigger than the shit Admins and Mods hide thread here over, and on the other sites the admins leave it open, because they encourage debate and discussion, and they don't have any reason to be scared of or try to avoid conflict that arises from it.

An RP site though? They're not for debates, they're for roleplays. So if debates get to a point where it's causing complaints it's going to be closed.

---

To word it in a more black/white way.

There are people who in a debate relish it, they see it as people being passionate, ideas being used, people are thinking, free speech is being exercised, minds are working.
Then there are people who see debate as unwanted conflict, it's messy, it causes anger, it makes people bicker, they'd rather put to an end so everyone can go back to having 'fun' (Only in quotes because there are people like me who do have fun in said debates). The Guild is made for a community of the latter, so it's natural they close down threads showing heavy debating rather quickly.

Rtron said Forgive me if I'm wrong in this statement, but I take it you don't vote?You can change the government by voting new officials in who you think won't do what you don't like. If you don't vote to try and change the government, then you can't complain about how the current government is. You've done nothing to try and change it.

That's like saying you can't judge tea readings, crystal balls, astrology etc because you don't take part in it.
Someone is completely allowed to see a flaw, and call out that flaw without consciously committing the flaw themself.

[Dipper]

I've seen debates get downright vicious over the several years I've been on this site, but as long as it never degraded to name calling and blatantly violating the rules, the mods never closed it. Abortion, gay marriage, everything, and it was never closed - Someone suggested that they make it so debates like that are no longer allowed, and Mahz flat out said he wouldn't do that.

You can't tell me that Roleplayerguild.com has changed so much after Guildfall that they (Contra and Mahz) no longer allow debate. Unless I get a mod to tell me otherwise, I refuse to believe it.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Well obviously debates are still allowed to start, otherwise OT would have probably been shut down by now.

But essentially ever debate I've seen on this site has gotten closed once things got heated enough.
I'm not suggesting the Mods and Admins close a debate the second it starts, but they often close it when the going gets rough in the debate.
Which is a shame because in most other sites I use (The ones who don't close debates), majority of the time said conflict often will eventually burn out on it's own and the majority of the people will reach some sort of agreement. But the Guild normally closes the debates before it get's to that point.