[OOC] Heroes of Beacon - the Next Chapter

[Crimmy]

You're a repeat offender at being bad at your job, yes.

[HereComesTheSnow]

"I only pay attention to a third of the characters when my job is to be a Co-GM and know when things are happening"

[Lucius Cypher]

I won't deny that a lot of Prince's decisions have been questionable. Some of them have been bad. And honestly speaking, they could be better. But I'm sure we're all tired of this old song and dance where we start yelling at Prince for being a bad GM and generally shame and bully him about it like a bunch of highschool shitheads.

But you also have to remember that the GM's are human too, and prone to mistakes as you guys. Only when you guys fuck up the GM's have to work with it, but when a GM fucks up it's pandemonium. Yeah they got more responsibilities, and that doesn't make their jobs any easier. Trying to keep up with your own character and making them releivant is hard enough as it is, but let's throw in keeping 10+ other people entertained through mission or events, as well as monitoring any fools like myself who wants to throw in a new idea that'll trigger someone and upset this already faulty balance.

I'd say something along the lines of "Then you try to do better", but I doubt anyone wants that kind of responsibility. Because if you did, you could have just helped out Prince by giving links to previous posts and mentioning things they may have missed. Instead we just bitch to him and force him to dig through 30 or so pages of posts to find the relevant information himself, which doesn't make things easier for anyone. Some of you have already mentioned that you don't even like RWBY, which kinda makes me wonder why you're around anyways. I guess it's just the generic school-of-adventure setting or something.

Communication is a two-way street too. Yeah, Prince needs to start listening to what everyone is saying, or at least asking people if things have happened. But at the same time we need to do our part and tell him too. If you're "tired" of explaining, then you're not making things better. At best once you give up, it's people like me who aren't a GM but actually care about the RP to do everyone's job to pay attention to what's going on and then relaying that information to those who need to hear it.

If you really have a problem with Prince, then make a PM and tell him. He can't miss it that way. If you want him to quit as a GM or even leave this RP, tell him. Be straight up with him instead of all this constant fighting. If you want him to improve, do the same thing. Tell him what he needs to do to improve, because obviously he's not doing the best he can. So let's make him better. Or either that, put him out of his misery.

[Guess Who]

I'd also like to add on to what Lucius has said. We all have personal lives outside of this RP as well, GMs and co-GMs included. Added to that, I'm pretty sure Prince, including the others, also have other RPs that they are a part of. We really, really need to stop being so hostile with each other and try to step into the other person's shoes every once in a while.

In short, we all want to try and enjoy our time with this RP and if we don't try to be more understanding and less aggressive than that's going to be extremely difficult to do.

[Ryonara]

Seriously, I don't know how much of this is shit posting and how much of it is legitimate concerns. One of the reasons I've stopped showing up in the OOC is because everyone takes everything so fucking seriously, but it seems like they're more concerned about showing their hate for it rather then dealing with it. Everyone has done a pretty crappy job and everyone needs to do better.

The only reason I'm here now is because I thought this argument was over, but I can see that Prince isn't the only one who can't let shit go.

[Lazo]

Hm. Getting tired of finding burgeoning shitstorms in this OOC half the times I check my subscriptions.

Maybe any actual issues people need addressed should be moved to PM conversations? If only to stop cluttering the OOC with arguments a good chunk of us will only skim at best? Honestly, I only have a vague idea of the issue at this point because whatever people actually involved in this are talking about is getting buried under random mudslinging and people trying to put words in each others' mouths.

[Lucius Cypher]

A wild Ryo appears! You say that now Ryo, but just how much of it are you willing to do? You say everyone needs to do better but what are you doing to improve? Or would you rather just leave it all to Lugu, Hari, and Prince, and just complain when something goes wrong? I know you're having problems trying to get something for Yue to do, but there's also so much their telepathy can handle. This shit requires communication and coordination, and we don't know each other well enough to figure that stuff out instinctively.

Even the Greek Gods had to split up ruling different parts of the world among each other. It wasn't as simple as splitting things up by land, sea, and skies either. And when one of them is having trouble we shouldn't be fair-weather friends and hobble them. A GM helps lay down the foundation and guide things along, but it's up to use players to figure out things like what we want to do and what we want to happen. Then we need to talk to the GM's about it and work out a resolution, make sure stuff works without contradiction or conflict.

[Plank Sinatra]

I still think allowing Plank a second main PC is a terrible idea as it creates a precedent that I don't think should be adhered to, (not to mention a new RPer was elbowed out of the way to make it happen) but that decision was ultimately not mine.

I assumed had the matter been settled in the remaining OOC then someone, most likely Lug or Plank would kindly inform him that we were no longer open, thank him for his interest and ask him to leave. Clearly I expected too much from a group who would rather devolve into senseless bickering over a simple misunderstanding than handle a very simple situation with a modicum of decency.

@Prince of Seraphs

My only problem is that you keep continually mischaracterizing the whole situation - I doubt it's willful (or, at least, I hope it's not) but those repeated misunderstandings keep happening, it ends up leading us deeper and deeper into shit. I didn't elbow aside anyone, at any time. I PM'd Lug over a week ago about keeping a character that has roots in Write's subplot in the game on a more full-time basis, and wondered if, since the new team had been looking for a fourth member to fill it up, I could fill it. At this point, no one had applied for the slot.

Cut to the start of this whole mess. Lugu is asked whether he's found a fourth member, forgets my request, says no, and puts out a public search. We've talked on Skype about it and there aren't any hard feelings - it was a mistake. I understand that people make them, no fucking sweat. So he puts out this request, Crimmy sees it, and tags a friend he thinks may have some interest. I'd told him I'd gotten a role on the new team a few days prior, but he forgets and doesn't realize it until after I get back and see what's started unfolding in the OOC. That's another mistake. I didn't blow up on anyone for it. They happen.

And, whether the hell you wanna believe it or not, no one was elbowed aside. As soon as I reminded Crimmy that I'd reserved the slot, he talked to Banjo and she withdrew voluntarily - despite me offering multiple times for about twelve hours that she could have it if she wanted it. At no point did I force her out or muscle anyone into keeping the slot. I could produce any number of chatlogs backing it up, if I had anything to prove to you, but I don't. The discussion is had, the discussion seems to be settled, and it's over.

Cut to this afternoon, when the same thing happens with an RPer who wasn't part of the discussion to begin with and has never even poked into the OOC before. Of course my initial reaction isn't positive, because it seems like you went behind my back and the backs of everyone after the OOC discussion had ended and tried to get another player involved in what seemed like a dead discussion. And even then, I offered to Skype the new guy (girl? pls no bully i'm a misgenderer) and talk things out, explain the situation, see if maybe we could work something out if possible. Hell, you've had a Steam contact request from me sitting and gathering dust for the past half year or so - we could have reached out and had a discussion, if you wanted.

At no point in this entire clusterfuck do I think I've been anything approaching unreasonable. In fact, given my normal temperament whenever we butt heads, I think I've done more to stay civil and try to establish discourse than anyone in this OOC who knows me (or those who only know me from my behavior in this OOC) would expect me to. But Lucius is right up there - communication is a two-way street. If you ignore a huge swath of characters, then fine. I disagree with that GMing style, but it's your right to do that. But if you're going to ignore characters and have no idea if/when they're posting or what teams look like after a character reshuffle, then you shouldn't be the person putting together a list of who's inactive or who's not. If you're going to disagree with the way a character or RPer takes up a slot on a team, talk to that RPer instead of going behind their back when it's all but guaranteed to spark a fight in what's objectively a pretty hostile OOC.

Honestly, most of the time people give you shit for your ignorance (or supposed ignorance) is because you only admit you don't pay attention or know something after you try to give an opinion on it. Learning to back the fuck off can go a long way towards teaching someone to chill the fuck out.

But you gotta talk it out.

[Ryonara]

A wild Ryo appears! You say that now Ryo, but just how much of it are you willing to do? You say everyone needs to do better but what are you doing to improve? Or would you rather just leave it all to Lugu, Hari, and Prince, and just complain when something goes wrong? I know you're having problems trying to get something for Yue to do, but there's also so much their telepathy can handle. This shit requires communication and coordination, and we don't know each other well enough to figure that stuff out instinctively.

Even the Greek Gods had to split up ruling different parts of the world among each other. It wasn't as simple as splitting things up by land, sea, and skies either. And when one of them is having trouble we shouldn't be fair-weather friends and hobble them. A GM helps lay down the foundation and guide things along, but it's up to use players to figure out things like what we want to do and what we want to happen. Then we need to talk to the GM's about it and work out a resolution, make sure stuff works without contradiction or conflict.

@Lucius Cypher

If everything is going fine then there's nothing to say. Don't expect us to start complimenting each other just because we're doing our jobs. So of course people are going to say something when you screw up. And there's only so much we can do before the GM's have to meet us halfway. And if they don't then all that fighting and arguing would have been for nothing. You know if people don't remember their history, they're doomed to repeat it. Just like what's happening right now.

[Krayzikk]

Hm. Getting tired of finding burgeoning shitstorms in this OOC half the times I check my subscriptions.

Maybe any actual issues people need addressed should be moved to PM conversations? If only to stop cluttering the OOC with arguments a good chunk of us will only skim at best? Honestly, I only have a vague idea of the issue at this point because whatever people actually involved in this are talking about is getting buried under random mudslinging and people trying to put words in each others' mouths.

@Lazo

Honestly, while I understand the irritation, public discourse is important.

Having all of the important discussions happen behind closed doors means only the people directly affected know about it.

Which is kind of the root of a large number of these issues.

[Guess Who]

I've noticed the common theme among all of this fighting is miscommunication, people being too quick to anger, and information getting overlooked or forgotten. All of which, in my opinion, only really need simple fixes. It just seems everyone's more inclined to throw blame around than to actually do anything about it.

[Lucius Cypher]

I'm all up for public rallies and protests. As vindictive as they tend to be, a fiery flame war just shows how important a discussion is.

In addition, just like there's no perfect people, there's no perfect solution either. I'm sure that at some point in the future I'll have another heated discussion about Gren and his cybernetics with someone, if not Prince then another player, because of issues that were never addressed or concluded. But we have to accept somethings as a constant, that at the very least people will fuck up. Thus we have to be willing to discuss it with them, no matter how many times it comes up.

When you stop trying to explain and just start blaming, it's just a circle of blaming. We blame Prince for not reading the OOC, Prince blames RL for taking up his time, we continue to blame Prince for not paying attention, someone starts blaming the players for causing shit, and we fill up our salt reserves for the week.

[Ookawa]

Hey guys! I just wanted to tell you all! You're doing a shit job!

______________________________________

Hey guys! I just wanted to complain about that you are doing a good job! How are you even allowed to do a good job? That is not a thing you are supposed to do. Doing a good job, that is. Usually people are shit. But for some reason, you are not and it bugs me a lot!

[Crimson Raven]

Whoo boy. I can see that this is a long held argument and a topic of heated debate, so believe me when I say I hesitate to put in my two cents for several reasons, one being that I am the new guy, and the lowest on the proverbial totem pole.

As @Lugubrious (and maybe a few of you whom I have interacted with before) can attest, I can be rather..._{whas the word I am looking for...?} Opinionated, perhaps? Stubborn too. Meddlesome, yes. Impatient...yeah. So take my two cents here as you will.

@Lucius Cypher Dude, my opinion of you has just shot up immensely. You are the 'Voice of Reason' that I could only hope to be here. @everyone, I hope you really consider what Lucius has to say here. His advice is sound and logical.

As a side note, I happen to also be one of those fools who end up throwing a wrench in the works via a new idea, and that plus my above traits, actually made Lugu hesitant to let me in this RP, and I am very greatful to him for giving me this chance, as I am a huge fan of Rwbyverse.

Sheesh, the side note was longer then the original...

Anyhow.

Here is my opinion, which nobody probably cares about, but I'm going to give anyway, just to fill this echo chamber with more noise.

Sorry about that.

Being GM or Co-GM is a MASSIVE time investment that cannot be emphasized enough. It is also an emotional strain, having to deal with many people with hugly varying personalities, vocabulary, presentation, communication skills. Hell, just for keeping this afloat for so long deserves an attaboy. I tried to GM once, and the experience was so ugly that it put me off a little from trying again. (That and time constraints)

However, that said, I think to be a successful GM or Co, you need to spend a lot of time on, in another huge RP that I am in, and you have probably seen, the one and only Phoenix Wing, the GM there, Caits, is nearly always on for a significant period of time at least once a day, and whenever there is a problem, she either addresses it, or communicates that she has heard it, and gets back to it when she has time. All this to say, I have noticed an occasional lack of GM, or Co presence here that leads to this situation devolving. For example it is times like these when we most need GM presence to put the foot down. Not just Co.

That is asking a lot, though, and as Lucius so well stated, GM and Co are human too, and have lives too. As human, we will invariably disappoint each other. What defines you is how you react to that disappointment. So far, I have seen some bickering and heated tempers, but mostly, a lot of well meant advice from a lot of sources that pilled up and sounded like accusations. (I include this wall into that category)

So, obviously, there is a problem. People are discontent. What we need, then, is to find a solution. I'm not arrogant enought to say I have the solution, that is something we need to work out as a group.

So, Please. Please. Temper the bickering. Its not helping. What I suggest right now is to take a moment to stop, and reflect. Let tempers cool and work out a solution.

No more I agree, blah blah blah. Don't just comment on your dissatisfaction and be done, include an idea to fix the problem, or if you don't have one, just say something like 'I'm bringing this to your attention.' Or 'I'm not sure how to fix this.' And ask for suggestions and imput.

To not put my foot in my mouth, considering that last statment, I do have something of a suggestion. It may seem silly, but we could put up a spreadsheet or editable document labeled "List of Grievances" or somesuch that people can go to and put down not only a problem they see, but also a proposed solution. This communicating by posts is largly inefficient and ineffective, especially with so many people as posts can get buried.

I wanted this to be brief, but it has gotten longer then I wanted, so I'll finish up with this thought: Are you part of the problem, or part of the solution?

Edit: Now, if you will excuse me, I'm going to lurk and brace myself for the fallout.

[MULTI_MEDIA_MAN]

Frankly, I mostly pay attention to the OOC because I enjoy watching chaos.

Hence my descent into nihilism and memetics over these last few years

[Silvan Haven]

No more I agree, blah blah blah. Don't just comment on your dissatisfaction and be done, include an idea to fix the problem,

@Crimson Raven

Prince checks with his fellow GMs before trying to fix stuff.

[Ookawa]

Frankly, I mostly pay attention to the OOC because I enjoy watching chaos.

Hence my descent into nihilism and memetics over these last few years

@MULTI_MEDIA_MAN

Oh, I totally understand you. See my two latest OOC posts for reference...

Hey, don't blame me, I just want to lighten up people's mood, since that is kind of the only thing I am capable of in this RP D:

[Guess Who]

<Snipped quote by MULTI_MEDIA_MAN>

Oh, I totally understand you. See my two latest OOC posts for reference...

Hey, don't blame me, I just want to lighten up people's mood, since that is kind of the only thing I am capable of in this RP D:

@PyroDash888

And we all appreciate it.

[Lady Seraphina]

Prince checks with his fellow GMs before trying to fix stuff.

@Silvan Haven

I'm going to regret this but could you give me an example.

[Silvan Haven]

Most of your problems seem to come from a lack of information. In the most recent case it was because you acted before seeing if the problem had already been fixed. If you check in with the other GMs before taking action or making rulings it would allow them to fill in certain things and give you a fact check on others.