[OOC] Arena Chat Thread

[Tojiko]

@Inkarnate

Exactly none of us are perfect and arena and really every site is gonna have a weak point, but literally check this out all you have to do is EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND REGULATE THE ARENA. Lol I’m telling you it’s way easier than it sounds. @BrokenPromise is right, this shit gone be niche, but people will enjoy it. It needs to be regulated so those crying about “no it does not need rules let people do what they want” are just not from this scene of competition. If you don’t regulate this place people will doc crazy busted shit and than you get arguments and than you get drama than bad rep. Rules prevent that and moderation should embody that. No rip on Rilla, Guy has a life but Oof bro there is so much more you could have done. It should not require someone one to message you to get ya attention.

Having Actually characters would be nice, I understand this is free form role play, but sheesh having a place to put arena based character would be nice. A template to follow and regulations. Having a rules of tired matches again would be nice may it be just hand to hand, mid tier to high tier ability. Storytelling can be done through combat. I’ve had threads that have lasted several pages, because there was a story intertwined and we fought 3 different times in that same story.

Y’all on the right track y’all just need someone y’all trust or can tolerate with crafting this all up, a group if not. I’m telling you it can be done, I’ve seen it and done it. Let’s not point blame really and try getting it done. Cause I kinda wanna rp in arena but god damn ppl are soft and just depressing.

[mickilennial]

@Tojiko You may not realize this, but RPG isn't really a "hands-on" site in terms of regulation. The regulation is on GMs who determine their own rules and expectations. Centralizing will never happen on RPG nor is it a good idea for it to do so based on how our community operates.

If individual GMs and/or Groups want to try this approach there is literally no one stopping them (which is what @Burger was getting at if you read their post closely). If you want to make a regulated league... do it. But there will never be an """official""" determination on how all Arena RPs operate. RPG is ultimately community-determined and at the end of the day it just ends with how much of the personalities people want to put up with and how inviting Arena actually feels to people who want to give it a go.

[Tojiko]

@Inkarnate

ultimately community-determined! Exactly, and from this the community has determined this place is trash tier. I mean that’s okay to leave it in its current form, but it will just die. Y’all literally complaining about this so obviously the current structure is flawed and allows for people to become disinterested. I read dude post, but I had no comment on it. It was nice to read and made a valid point about forcing rules. And I get it, the site is not hands on, but the Arena should be treated differently in a sense that the community agrees on things. Y’all agree it needs a theme or to be story driven, y’all agree the ranks should be revamped and etc. So as a community y’all should make regulations and decide if y’all want to consider it the “go to” for the arena. Of course you don’t have to follow it since y’all really about this free form shit, so those who don’t follow idk Arena 3.0 are just idk odd. I feel like y’all want to fix Arena but don’t wanna do the work. Everyone has give great ideas to push this place and why not work on those? Make some shit display it to the community, vote on it, debate it, change it redo. You can’t please everyone but there needs to be a common route here that the majority follow because the community decided on it.

[mickilennial]

I really just think people should do more story-driven arena RP's and tone down on the attitude so people can find talking with people in the forum non-confrontational. The rest will come with time. Baby steps.

[BangoSkank]

What rules did your themed anime arena use Tojiko?

You could use that as a starting place, see which rules seems reasonable to folks here, which need to be modified, and which just don’t jive at all. It won’t be an all encompassing scripture, but you could get a rule system in place and figure out a narrative to christen it.

Might take some work to find the right balance so the rules inform without constricting, but you never know until you throw an interest check up and test it out.

[Tojiko]

@Inkarnate

Again I agree, story driven TP often creates a connection between the two because they have to work together to create a coherent and enjoyable storyline. They should complement eachother, bouncing off and carrying that energy in to the climax that is the fight and it outcome. All the suspense finally coming down to create a vibrant story and a damn good fight. Yet in PvP arguments are unavoidable this is fact, even if subtle there is always question but story does lower that. But aye think about what I said y’all got all the answers, just do it and enjoy the outcome.

[Tojiko]

@BangoSkank

Think like 2-3 years ago Deme, Davy (who is not here) and I made a Boku No Hero Academia site. Still to this day it is booming, but ya know new leadership hates us and we hate them. But in the time we created that site we learned pretty much the in and out of Themed RP. Sorry to disappoint though, it was stat based that made my system work so well. And it was a naturally competitive scene. Everyone wanted to be number one, we made a site that appealed not just to the lovers of the anime but competitive rp. To avoid people getting pissed a PvP and to make rp feel more rewarding. Characters were given fame, in game currency, exp to distribute etc. These things would not work here. But one thing I believe will work here are “Missions” Indie created most of the rp elements while I did systems.

Basically Missions were threads you would have to sign up for and had a summary of what was gonna occurs in the story. The person who posted the mission would narrate it and have other participate. At the end they were given gains and other nice things.

How I Imagine it here I would see it in a very similar light:

Conquest, a possible name.

A Dying Night: Conquest.
Participant Max: 4 (2v2 scenario)
Combat type: Mid tier abilities
Summary: “Nagasaki, Shugo” the next and 18th head of the Nagasaki clan is in danger. His family at war with the Shogunates fources are on it’s last leg. His father “Nagasaki, Hito” is in desperate need of help has reached out to find guards for his young son. He knows the war is lost and wants his son to be moved away from the carnage until it is over. Hito belives the government is unaware of the child’s existence, Hito has already found a willing clan to take his son in. Although nothing ever seems to escapes the Shoguns eyes.

Shogunate Generals/hired help
-
-

Nagasaki’s Hired Guards
-
-
Judge: Chibi

Winning:
(Could be a item or some shit)
Losers
(Nothing or an item or some shit)

Additionally: this can be a ranked match or naw. Host (chibi) controls npcs in story. Example I would play the role of Hito and Shugo. Naturally I would make the opening post to set the scenario and from there y’all do what ya want and I post when necessary like if major events happen idk fucking weather change all of a sudden idk.

———

[Dias Blade]

Same difference. And it isn't supposed. It's a fact.

@Inkarnate

Yeah, just like the Pixies in my backyard are a fact. They make this excellent syrup from trees that goes great on waffles.

No, I disagree with something and didn't want to elaborate at that given time. I have reasoning, but based on your comments our perspective is very different on the issue.

The only difference in perspective is regarding what counts as logic. Now your story keeps changing;
First its "this is bad cause I say so."
Then its "I didn't have any constructive counterpoints."
Now its "I did have those but I wasn't ready to give 'em at the time."

You're supposed to pre-heat the oven first. Pro-Tip.

Discussion is not a fight, “padre”.

If that's what you call discussion I'd love to see what you call a debate. Could prolly sell tickets for that.

This is a community thread discussing Arena and by the current measured topic – how to improve it. None of us have to agree with all of the ideas presented, but acting like this a little arena bout/fight is the definition of toxic.

Your perceived notion of condescension and provocative implies you are upset over the phrasing so I suggest you take a step back and breathe.

No shit, Sherlock. How long did it take you to figure that out? If you're trying to de escalate the situation YOU caused then you're doing a super terrible job at it. What sort of reaction were you expecting to get from that stunt you pulled? Turns out when you piss someone off they ACTUALLY get pissed off. Who knew, right? Was I suppose to pretend your asinine behavior didn't rub me wrong?

Stating “in my experience” is not condescension, it is just contextual wording to explain that I am not just some guy who has no knowledge of how arena forums work.

You said: "Also as someone who participated in the Arena format for nearly twenty years I can't say I think anything Dias has mentioned are ideas I think are fundamentally good at any level."

That's legit you saying everything on said list, including the idea of a friggen Rulebook which you only walked back after the fact, is bad FOR NO OTHER REASON other than your supposed 20 year record. So forget providing any kind of logical rebuttal as to WHY you oppose such things. Forget trying to have an actual discussion in what is supposed to be a discussion. And now you're here trying to pass this off as being perfectly fine?

"I disagree because I know its just bad. Trust me gaiz."
"Eh, I didn't actually have any reasons, womp womp~"
"Oh, I DID have reasons. I could tell you...but I won't."

I'm not the one here who is trying to dictate extreme revisions of the leaderboards among other things, mate.

HEH! DUDE! YOU JUST SAID:
"This is a community thread discussing Arena and by the current measured topic – how to improve it."
So either throwing my two cents into said public discussion apparently triggered you, which would explain that knee jerk reaction you had, or for some delusional reason you're saying me tossing out ideas makes me an Elitist? O_O

Holy crap...

There is nothing elitist about think an idea just isn't viable or fundamentally worthwhile.

Bubble is looking more likely, though personally I still lean more in the other direction.

But sure, let's just resort to ad hominem and similar rhetoric. That always works well, right?

You tell me, Strawman. =P

Pot meet Kettle. You were and are the one getting upset over phrasing.

So your "vibes" governing shit around here is compared to me getting pissed off at your nonsense? Dafuq? O_o

No, we're not talking about people from offsite who had an arena culture and joined... another arena culture. We're talking about people who have interest to give Arena a try if it had a different approach to things. We're talking about people who either stepped away from it, have no direct affiliation with it, and so forth.

1: I have interest in giving this Arena a try if it had a different approach to things.
2: I did step away from it.
3: I have no direct affiliation with this Arena.

I'm a new player around here. Doesn't matter that I showed up because of Mobius' tournament. His tournament is the only reason I found out about this place, I didn't know you guys existed. Do you NOT want new players? If the TZDL brought fresh faces to your site, shouldn't that be a good thing? Now I'm just confused. Are you just wanting people with no critical thinking skills or opinions of their own? Like, seriously, at this point now I'm just completely lost on what your priorities are.

But I think you've obviously made your "point" here.

Based on your post? I doubt it.

Not sure what productive dialogue can be made with someone who is accusing others and is acting combative.

Considering that despite being pissed off at you I'm still capable of rational thinking? I mean this entire time I've been doing nothing but reacting to what others are saying. I haven't begun speaking in weird languages yet, that's usually a fun show to watch. Also still obviously maintaining my sense of humor to boot. So yeah, having a productive dialogue is pretty much dependent on what others have to say.

And if your goal was to have a "productive dialogue" I would LOVE for you to elaborate on how "these ideas are bad because I say so" was even remotely looking to accomplish that aim. That's the thing you're failing to realize. Your response wasn't you conveying that you wanted a "productive dialogue" it was conveying you being asinine. And then acting suddenly perplexed by the reaction you got. AND THEN having the audacity to turn around and accuse me of being toxic for it? Are you nuts?

Nobody is going to pay you or promote you. I hope whatever fun you have in the arena is yours, but I definitely don't think anything we believe is compatible.

Its not about our beliefs being compatible. Its about whether or not something makes logical sense. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but not all opinions are magically correct. That's why you put forth ideas and then examine them. I've already told that other guy, I don't work here. This isn't my job. As such, I'm clearly not the one who has ultimate say cause I'm not the one who is going to be putting in the time on it, not unless I'm A) getting paid for my effort and B) getting the job title that goes along with that sort of job. There's been zero attempt to encourage me to stick around here or offer up my services for free.

I wasn't even planning on saying anything else beyond throwing up those suggestions, that was until I caught sight of your response, which I've already gone over ad nauseam. You wanna disregard my feedback? Hey, its your house. But if you're gonna talk shit, then I'm gonna check you whether you like it or not. In the future, maybe don't act like that. That way you can avoid situations like this.

[mickilennial]

@Dias Blade Whatever you say, my guy. Have a good one.

[POOHEAD189]

@Dias Blade I realize saying 'calm down' is the thing that works the least when people need to really calm down but that's all I suggest you do at the moment. No need to get heated.

[Ruby]

<Snipped quote by Inkarnate>

Yeah, just like the Pixies in my backyard are a fact. They make this excellent syrup from trees that goes great on waffles.

<Snipped quote>

The only difference in perspective is regarding what counts as logic. Now your story keeps changing;
First its "this is bad cause I say so."
Then its "I didn't have any constructive counterpoints."
Now its "I did have those but I wasn't ready to give 'em at the time."

You're supposed to pre-heat the oven first. Pro-Tip.

<Snipped quote>

If that's what you call discussion I'd love to see what you call a debate. Could prolly sell tickets for that.

<Snipped quote>



<Snipped quote>

No shit, Sherlock. How long did it take you to figure that out? If you're trying to de escalate the situation YOU caused then you're doing a super terrible job at it. What sort of reaction were you expecting to get from that stunt you pulled? Turns out when you piss someone off they ACTUALLY get pissed off. Who knew, right? Was I suppose to pretend your asinine behavior didn't rub me wrong?

<Snipped quote>

You said: "Also as someone who participated in the Arena format for nearly twenty years I can't say I think anything Dias has mentioned are ideas I think are fundamentally good at any level."

That's legit you saying everything on said list, including the idea of a friggen Rulebook which you only walked back after the fact, is bad FOR NO OTHER REASON other than your supposed 20 year record. So forget providing any kind of logical rebuttal as to WHY you oppose such things. Forget trying to have an actual discussion in what is supposed to be a discussion. And now you're here trying to pass this off as being perfectly fine?

"I disagree because I know its just bad. Trust me gaiz."
"Eh, I didn't actually have any reasons, womp womp~"
"Oh, I DID have reasons. I could tell you...but I won't."


<Snipped quote>

HEH! DUDE! YOU JUST SAID:
"This is a community thread discussing Arena and by the current measured topic – how to improve it."
So either throwing my two cents into said public discussion apparently triggered you, which would explain that knee jerk reaction you had, or for some delusional reason you're saying me tossing out ideas makes me an Elitist? O_O

Holy crap...

<Snipped quote>

Bubble is looking more likely, though personally I still lean more in the other direction.

<Snipped quote>

You tell me, Strawman. =P

<Snipped quote>

So your "vibes" governing shit around here is compared to me getting pissed off at your nonsense? Dafuq? O_o

<Snipped quote>

1: I have interest in giving this Arena a try if it had a different approach to things.
2: I did step away from it.
3: I have no direct affiliation with this Arena.

I'm a new player around here. Doesn't matter that I showed up because of Mobius' tournament. His tournament is the only reason I found out about this place, I didn't know you guys existed. Do you NOT want new players? If the TZDL brought fresh faces to your site, shouldn't that be a good thing? Now I'm just confused. Are you just wanting people with no critical thinking skills or opinions of their own? Like, seriously, at this point now I'm just completely lost on what your priorities are.

<Snipped quote>

Based on your post? I doubt it.

<Snipped quote>

Considering that despite being pissed off at you I'm still capable of rational thinking? I mean this entire time I've been doing nothing but reacting to what others are saying. I haven't begun speaking in weird languages yet, that's usually a fun show to watch. Also still obviously maintaining my sense of humor to boot. So yeah, having a productive dialogue is pretty much dependent on what others have to say.

And if your goal was to have a "productive dialogue" I would LOVE for you to elaborate on how "these ideas are bad because I say so" was even remotely looking to accomplish that aim. That's the thing you're failing to realize. Your response wasn't you conveying that you wanted a "productive dialogue" it was conveying you being asinine. And then acting suddenly perplexed by the reaction you got. AND THEN having the audacity to turn around and accuse me of being toxic for it? Are you nuts?

<Snipped quote>

Its not about our beliefs being compatible. Its about whether or not something makes logical sense. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but not all opinions are magically correct. That's why you put forth ideas and then examine them. I've already told that other guy, I don't work here. This isn't my job. As such, I'm clearly not the one who has ultimate say cause I'm not the one who is going to be putting in the time on it, not unless I'm A) getting paid for my effort and B) getting the job title that goes along with that sort of job. There's been zero attempt to encourage me to stick around here or offer up my services for free.

I wasn't even planning on saying anything else beyond throwing up those suggestions, that was until I caught sight of your response, which I've already gone over ad nauseam. You wanna disregard my feedback? Hey, its your house. But if you're gonna talk shit, then I'm gonna check you whether you like it or not. In the future, maybe don't act like that. That way you can avoid situations like this.

@Dias Blade

Since you're new(ish) let me illustrate something for you.

On the Guild we try to keep conflicts private. It's the internet, they're gonna happen, people are going to be petty and emotional, and they usually have versions of reality that don't really match with reality--so conflict is inevitable but when it happens we prefer it happen in private so it doesn't waste the time and energy of others who just want to RP.

Your above post? Should've been sent as a PM.

[Dias Blade]

Did you just DELETE my post?

[skidcrow]

[mickilennial]

@Mara

wat

[Ruby]

Did you just DELETE my post?

@Dias Blade

Yep.

[Dias Blade]

Videos are fun.

[Doll Maker]

What makes the arena interesting is that you can have characters cross into other threads and battles. It has the potential of being a persistent world with a battle focus that can also be dictated by the flow of story. I think it would be interesting to capitalize on this element. I'd add more, but I feel like I'd be rehashing the ideas of other people.

[BrokenPromise]

@Dias Blade

The newby tourney brought in new blood from other sections, and almost everyone hides their arena stats, that's a fact. full stop.

The gauntlet mode you proposed sounds just like every fight I've had outside of arena. I actually did something like that in my DR RP, where I controlled 8 highly trained robots and their superbot. The 20 other player characters had to create a plan that minimized casualties and would allow them to take down the superbot. Some of them fought poorly and got themselves or others killed.

I really just think people should do more story-driven arena RP's and tone down on the attitude so people can find talking with people in the forum non-confrontational. The rest will come with time. Baby steps.

@Inkarnate

This approach seems to have worked for the rest of the forum.

[Dias Blade]

@Dias Blade

The newby tourney brought in new blood from other sections, and almost everyone hides their arena stats, that's a fact. full stop.

@BrokenPromise

1: I don't think bringing in people from other sections of the same site would count as "new blood."
2: Folks hiding their arena states just further solidifies the point I made about it.
3: Full stop what? O_o

The gauntlet mode you proposed sounds just like every fight I've had outside of arena. I actually did something like that in my DR RP, where I controlled 8 highly trained robots and their superbot. The 20 other player characters had to create a plan that minimized casualties and would allow them to take down the superbot. Some of them fought poorly and got themselves or others killed.

Kay...sounds like they failed said challenge then. I'm not entirely sure what the point is of that anecdote, I mean do you have a link to this thing? I feel like it would be better for to just see the setup for myself rather than ask for the details.

This approach seems to have worked for the rest of the forum.

To be fair, that's pretty standard policy for like any forum, not just RP related. Like if you want new people to come and stick around its just logical not to throw your weight around and treat them like crap. Actually that concept is true for life in general. Though when I see people make that assertion about this particular Arena, Iunno. I mean I've seen people give equal to if not more so attitude in the other sections as well.

Consider for a moment that there isn't actually a toxicity problem here. By someone's admission, the Newby Tournament brought in randos from other parts of this forum to the Arena, but that was just a temporary thing. I'm going to assume that such effort was also assisted by those who were likewise already established in said other sections and so all they did was just apply some of their influence over said sections to drum up recruits. I don't know if said tournament actually came to a full completion or not, but clearly folks didn't stick around.

My point is that your Arena needs an overhaul and reasons for players to stay and invest time. TIME is the most valued commodity around, especially true for RP Communities. With work or school, other hobbies and interests, one's personal time is finite throughout the day. People, by and large, don't like wasting their time. If they do something, its because they want to do it for whatever reason. But there IS always a reason involved. That's how our species is hardwired. So, in staying true to what the Arena is and the purpose it has always served within the Greater RP Community, you implement a system designed to ENCOURAGE said time investment.

Hence the reason I shared this;


Its Human Behavioral Science. There is an actual methodology associated with the things I was suggesting.
Do you HAVE to use said suggestions? No, obviously.
But there's actual wisdom in said feedback. Even if said ideas inspired something similar, the point is my wisdom has been shared and its for the purpose of being helpful. If what you're doing hasn't been working, then consider a "new perspective" to be just the thing you're missing. You might be surprised by the results.