[OOC] Arena Chat Thread

[Rilla]

Get out, Shit. Smh.

Haha.

I would also never progress past what was it? C rank? The one with tech and sci fi. Not my type of character so I never create or use them. Huzzah!

I can agree with a general rule book, though I will say it should be very general one that allows for individual fights to adjust as needed.

[BrokenPromise]

I don't think bringing in people from other sections of the same site would count as "new blood."

@Dias Blade

The goal is to increase the number of people participating in Arena, it most certainly counts.

As for your point about arena stats, sure, there's a problem. But is making a tiers system going to work with so few people participating in the arena? I don't think so.

Kay...sounds like they failed said challenge then. I'm not entirely sure what the point is of that anecdote, I mean do you have a link to this thing? I feel like it would be better for to just see the setup for myself rather than ask for the details.

@Dias Blade

My point was that "player Vs Mod" is basically what the rest of the forum is for. You don't need to see my RP to find it, I have yet to participate in an RP that doesn't feature this.

To be fair, that's pretty standard policy for like any forum, not just RP related. Like if you want new people to come and stick around its just logical not to throw your weight around and treat them like crap. Actually that concept is true for life in general. Though when I see people make that assertion about this particular Arena, Iunno. I mean I've seen people give equal to if not more so attitude in the other sections as well.

@Dias Blade

I've seen a fair bit of toxic behavior in casual. But everyone's in casual, so that's to be expected. Nearly every fight I see in here boils down to an OOC shouting match. The problem isn't that there's toxic people, it's just the ratio of toxic people to chill people. That's not good for a small group that wants to grow.

Consider for a moment that there isn't actually a toxicity problem here. By someone's admission, the Newby Tournament brought in randos from other parts of this forum to the Arena, but that was just a temporary thing. I'm going to assume that such effort was also assisted by those who were likewise already established in said other sections and so all they did was just apply some of their influence over said sections to drum up recruits. I don't know if said tournament actually came to a full completion or not, but clearly folks didn't stick around.

@Dias Blade

This is why it needs to be done again, and better. So far it's the only thing that's gotten people coming in here to do any actual role playing. Is it going to solve everyone's problems? unlikely. Arena's problems are too numerous to be solved by hosting a single arena. But it's where I'd start.

My point is that your Arena needs an overhaul and reasons for players to stay and invest time. TIME is the most valued commodity around, especially true for RP Communities. With work or school, other hobbies and interests, one's personal time is finite throughout the day. People, by and large, don't like wasting their time. If they do something, its because they want to do it for whatever reason. But there IS always a reason involved. That's how our species is hardwired. So, in staying true to what the Arena is and the purpose it has always served within the Greater RP Community, you implement a system designed to ENCOURAGE said time investment.

Hence the reason I shared this;


Its Human Behavioral Science. There is an actual methodology associated with the things I was suggesting.
Do you HAVE to use said suggestions? No, obviously.
But there's actual wisdom in said feedback. Even if said ideas inspired something similar, the point is my wisdom has been shared and its for the purpose of being helpful. If what you're doing hasn't been working, then consider a "new perspective" to be just the thing you're missing. You might be surprised by the results.

@Dias Blade

I don't think anyone is going to argue that arena needs an overhaul. Strictly speaking for myself, an achievement system and other shallow reward systems are not going to turn people like me into arena regulars. I need to feel like the mini-community is worth participating in. But I've already said this.

I feel the core problem with Arena is that nobody really wants to change anything. Anything that would require an admin's help (coding) is well out of arms reach.

[Mobius]

I've always been pretty decidedly neutral on leaderboards/achievements. I can see the argument for them but I can also see the argument against them. For me personally I think they can build something to work for but for other it can determine a "play to win" mentality which is one of the things we talked about Arena having that outsiders/newcomers don't like.

@Inkarnate

PVP and competition is all about playing to win. There is no other way to play and saying otherwise is disingenuous, and if new players cannot understand this basic concept then don't come to the arena or participate in tournaments.

There is no other reason to play fighting games, card games, compet FPS, or any of it but to win and do your best.

[Tojiko]

I figured you guys are bound to fail, 3-4 days of crying and arguing with no progress, really y’all, as someone who just got here I can see why ya arena dead. Y’all can’t get along for 5 seconds. Y’all dont wanna try any but give ideas and cry. As a unit y’all are dysfunctional, and are a representation of not just the area but the site. Y’all should fixed the cracks in ya community first, ya mods too. Cause they lazy and petty, doing this is not hard. I enjoyed trading words with y’all, y’all seem like good people, but just lack the maturity to put shit to the side and be like “alright bro it is what it is, let’s make a to do list and get shit done. We can argue later.” I’ve never seen this shit, it’s crazy. To the point where mods delete ppl post in a attempt to stop shit but makes things worst. That’s a fail bro, come on. Is y’all gone do something or shut up? Cause I’m disappointed that y’all have all this input and won’t act. That’s like that kid who talks shit online, but when you see him he don’t got the same energy. I ain’t shit, but I really let my actions talk and I get shit done for my community when I was in the position to. Y’all really shouldn’t even be having this conversation if y’all cared about the arena. Y’all might as well delete the shit cause y’all can’t work together. And if y’all did it would be a select few with the “it should be fun and inviting” when you need the competitive others to back y’all so it can be “Fun, inviting and still story driven.”

Think I’ll just sit back at this point, cause I may be contributing to y’all ignorance at this point, y’all got some good ideas just use em, again it’s easy. Get a team together get it done.

[tex]

PVP and competition is all about playing to win. There is no other way to play and saying otherwise is disingenuous, and if new players cannot understand this basic concept then don't come to the arena or participate in tournaments.

There is no other reason to play fighting games, card games, compet FPS, or any of it but to win and do your best.

_{Oh my god wow.}

I was gone for the weekend did you people actually accomplish anything or are the last two pages just argument?

I ask because I would like to know whether I should actually read all of it.

[BrokenPromise]

@tex Nah fam, nothing important to read really. We're at that point where someone needs to do something. I think at this point people need to take steps to actually do something like host a tournament/reform the rules/etc, but I really don't see that happening.

I'd love to be proven wrong, however.

[tex]

I may be willing to host something to that effect in the near future myself. But Rather than simply coming up with an RP as the only acting GM, I would rather collaborate on something that may attract players from across the boards.

The tournament idea isn't a bad idea at all. In fact, I rather like it. But something more akin to a battle-manga - with appropriate genre application of course - might work out better for people who get especially butt hurt about losing. Something where characters grow with an express focus on combat. In this case there would be cases where a character's victory would be more in line with their arc and the overarching storyline, rather than their inherent 'skill level' during combat. While I do think that there is some manner of competition in a few forms of RP combat, it shouldn't be the focus of the aim is to attract new players.

However, I am not going to host or participate in anything that moves at a pace similar to advanced. I simply don't have it in me to keep myself invested in something that doesn't have very consistent pacing.

[Mobius]

@tex

roleplayerguild.com/topics/170229-tzd…

I've accomplished more in this arena than you have being in this site for the arena. I think I have a better grasp at the arena than you do.

[Ciaran]

@Tojiko A little over the top but exactly right. I literally started working on a ruleset on my own, with the plan of saying "Here it is, use it or don't" because I wanted something to happen. However, it turns out that making a ruleset that isn't open to abuse while still achieving what you want to is quite challenging.

[Liseran Thistle]

hey guys, it's me again, I see the arena has been busy since I've been gone.

I personally really like the idea of the arena, but I have no time to actually play in it, lol.

I have a sort of idea, but I don't think it'll draw people in, a couple of my friends from awhile ago used to have something like this arena, but we the roleplayers would fight in it, not the characters. we called it forum fight, it was really fun lol!

though it requires self insert type characters, it was rather enjoyable.

also if it's story you're lacking, maybe make some of the tournament's genre based, and make the tournament's have some kind of story? like a steam punk based fight, where you can only fight using a steam punk OC, and as the tournament goes on the characters can weave some kind of story. like an anime style tournament arc!

maybe the arena itself can have a story of some sort, start a new season or something with a story to start everyone off, maybe that'll get people pumped, I hate seeing people fight, roleplay is supposed to be fun and stressing over lack of ideas is not fun at all, lol.

[Ciaran]

roleplayerguild.com/topics/173928-i-g…

Take a look if you care.

[tex]

@Mobius

Sorry, I just find your position on 'winning' completely laughable. There were many points brought up about reforming Arena so that there are options which can allow more inclusive styles of play outside of the 'competitive' sector, which is absolutely flooded with arbitrary and nebulous rules. Judgement on competitive combat should be objective, but it cannot be done in such a manner due to the subjective nature of not only fictional writing, but fictional combat. whenever I think of Arena judgement, I compare it to death battle, pretty much entirely.

A great deal of focus on 'rules and regulations' is not helpful. All you're purporting is for Arena to do more of the same. If people don't want things to change, I don't care all that much. But you will continue to pertain to a niche that a great deal of role-players seem to find especially repulsive. The outcome there would ultimately be the result of Arena's culture, something that has persisted since pre-guild fall. Back in the days when I was especially active in Arena, there were plenty more threads with people who didn't care so much about winning as they did about the experience of combat. Those were the golden ages, even if there were still a ton of fuckboys who tried to abuse rules and the vagueness of RP to pull out victories. I should know, I was one of them. And I won a lot.

The idea that PVP engagements are only about winning is entirely shortsighted. What's even worse is assuming that Combat roleplay is only about fighting one another. While the primary focus of combat role play is combat, the scenarios and terms of engagement are not limited to a narrow view of this particular subsection. This pertains to 'competitive rule sets' as well. Rules in Arena and role play are nebulous restrictions that encourage a competitive atmosphere despite the inherent impossibility to make such an environment objective. Writing combat that can flow well and achieve some level of coherency does not need to be competitive though, and that's my point entirely.

The idea that winning is all that matters is absolutely toxic, even if there are viable competitive rules set up.

Do you not want people that want non-competitive combat role-plays around here? Do you want to keep them out? Are you focused on stagnating Arena even more? If so, Oh my god, wow, have fun with that, #bye.

[Dolerman]

Take a shot every-time @Tojiko name drops Deme.

[Mobius]

Sorry, I just find your position on 'winning' completely laughable.

@tex

that's because your idea of competition is laughable. You can't relate.

There were many points brought up about reforming Arena so that there are options which can allow more inclusive styles of play outside of the 'competitive' sector,

@Tex

Sounds like inclusivity comes at the sacrifice of the arena and tournament's purpose. You want to pretend fight then go to the other sections where you're free to arrange it.

which is absolutely flooded with arbitrary and nebulous rules.

@Tex

That's because you don't play.

Why is autohitting a universal rule in most places? Is that arbitrary? can you answer it?

Judgement on competitive combat should be objective, but it cannot be done in such a manner due to the subjective nature of not only fictional writing, but fictional combat. whenever I think of Arena judgement, I compare it to death battle, pretty much entirely.

@Tex

Take your nihilism elsewhere then cause this section isn't for you. There's many styles among us and we don't all agree, but we do agree on a standard on what is and isn't allowed. How "x" and "y" interact and what it means when z happens.

A great deal of focus on 'rules and regulations' is not helpful.

@Tex

Opinion

All you're purporting is for Arena to do more of the same.

@Tex

Wrong again. My posts in this thread was for players to take action and I've only butted in to correct fallacious points (whether it was by Dias or what competition is). No one is stopping you from doing things yourself like Carian has or myself.

Go ahead and get started

If people don't want things to change, I don't care all that much.

@Tex

Who are you to dictate change and what type of change? What if we don't need change? What if we don't need change in certain areas? Not all change is good change.

But you will continue to pertain to a niche that a great deal of role-players seem to find especially repulsive.

@tex

A great deal in RPGuild. There's a lot of places that have pvp focuses (theme based mainly) who aren't adverse of some pvp. I find your lack of empathy to the spirit of competition repulsive. Do you care? I assume not, but the feeling is 100 percent mutual.

The outcome there would ultimately be the result of Arena's culture, something that has persisted since pre-guild fall.

@Tex

That's from a lack of effort than people "playing to win" and if you, and your lot, cannot leave how others play alone then go back to whatever toxic section you came from.

Back in the days when I was especially active in Arena, there were plenty more threads with people who didn't care so much about winning as they did about the experience of combat.

@Tex

Well these aren't your days anymore and were never your days outside of guild. PVP has always been apart of the scene and a great many of us existed or still exist to play and win even if we don't like or agree with each other.

Those were the golden ages,

@tex

To you

even if there were still a ton of fuckboys who tried to abuse rules and the vagueness of RP to pull out victories. I should know, I was one of them. And I won a lot.

@Tex

And there's a lot of us who don't and can still win a lot.

The idea that PVP engagements are only about winning is entirely shortsighted.

@Tex

That's the entire point of one-off PVPs like the arena.

What's even worse is assuming that Combat roleplay is only about fighting one another. While the primary focus of combat role play is combat, the scenarios and terms of engagement are not limited to a narrow view of this particular subsection.

@Tex

That's the entire point of the arena subsection: it's for one offs and tournaments where players aren't totally invested in something longer than a page or two.

This pertains to 'competitive rule sets' as well. Rules in Arena and role play are nebulous restrictions that encourage a competitive atmosphere despite the inherent impossibility to make such an environment objective.

@Tex

Opinion

Writing combat that can flow well and achieve some level of coherency does not need to be competitive though, and that's my point entirely.

@Tex

It doesn't and you'll be right. It also doesn't mean it does have to be that way, and with a subsection for fighting: it isn't. You can always make a writing contest.

The idea that winning is all that matters is absolutely toxic,

@Tex

"STOP WINNING!"

even if there are viable competitive rules set up.

@Tex

The point of rules is to foster a standard most can agree to when engaging each other in a specific venue. These rules are made to protect the interest of one's self before the interest of others, because the self interest can inherently protect the others from abuse when implemented. This is why many competitive venues have rules: to keep people in-line and behaved and protect the talent therein.

Do you not want people that want non-competitive combat role-plays around here?

@tex

They can roleplay anywhere they want. I've said this before: instead of being an ideas guy just go do it. You don't need someone to hold your hand. You don't need the staff to write it up. Go ahead.

Just don't be disingenuous and tell others what "competition" is.

Are you focused on stagnating Arena even more? If so, Oh my god, wow, have fun with that, #bye.

@Tex

Good riddance. We don't need an emotionally charged argument. We were fine before your smug images. You want change? Go make it happen.

[tex]

Haha, ok there, sport.

Oh my god, wow, have fun with that, #bye.

[Tojiko]

And idea (now I’m pretty much done here)

(Had this in my docs for a one piece site and I never used it. Showed it to them and let liked it but I never had the energy to finish it, cause I was doing my own site. )

Location: some fucking island

Host
Sudoku, The Gēmu Gēmu No Mi user- This fruit is the Game Game fruit allowing the user to turn things into a game within a sphere. Setting rules and effects, even a way to beat the game...you get the jist.

Overview
Sudoku has captured 12 individuals and put them on Sudoku Island. These 12 warriors have been split into groups of three and are now forced to play his game. A tournament that's all about survival, with the island being the battlefield. This island has a town and what not , all created by Sudoku and the civilians are all robots. The Objective of the game is to be the last team standing... by any means necessary. Although this is not your average tournament, Sudoku has a fascination with games, so there is a twist. Each participant has a role to play that benefits the team:

Roles ( not in depth because ya know it’s just a quick jist)
Warrior Class: Through the power of The Gemu Gemu No Mi, this person has been blessed with a buff that adds higher offensive capabilities.

Healer Class: Through the power of The Gemu Gemu No Mi, this person has been blessed with the ability to heal. As long as this person is alive his/her groups will automatically heal at the end of each battle, this person can remove status effects (debuff/and shit ). Additionally, while in battle the healer can become a combat medic, healing his own injuries one at a time.

Sacrificial Pawn: Through the power of The Gemu Gemu No Mi, this person has been blessed with the power of Sacrifice. If anyone in the party dies, he/she may sacrifice himself to bring them back from the dead.

(Will add more roles just wanna see if y’all down for something like this. )

Blessings
Each group will also be giving a blessing decided by dice roll, these blessings can be a item or a power who knows.

[Rilla]

While I don't particularly care for how it was stated, I do agree. Just do something. Anything. Going back and forth isn't going to help, the more time spent doing that is more time nothing is happening and that just keeps the cycle going.

You don't need a mod, hell there really is NO Arena mod. I'm a real mod with real mod powers. None of the other sections have mods. Hell, for better or worse, the arena was almost always self policing. Just do something.

I think wins and losses are important. But what I find more joy in, is the stories told coming out of them. Try to win, damn it. Try and grab the dub, but if you can't, find a story to tell coming out of it. That's how I find myself continuing. I've lost before. And found a way to make it interesting. Had a whole character lose his abilities in the middle of a tournament and still told a story.

But hey, stories ain't everyone's deal. And that's cool too.

Again, just do something. Clucking in here isn't going to help the Arena, which you all seem to want to do. Start a tournament, book some fights. Hell have a 'ArenaMania", come together and do something. Learn from each other. See how different characters work, see what new ideas you guys can create.

[mickilennial]

PVP and competition is all about playing to win. There is no other way to play and saying otherwise is disingenuous, and if new players cannot understand this basic concept then don't come to the arena or participate in tournaments.

There is no other reason to play fighting games, card games, compet FPS, or any of it but to win and do your best.

@Mobius

I've said it once and said it before. Arena-style roleplaying has in the past – admittedly on other sites – been more about creating a fight that is enjoyable no matter the outcome. That can be encouraged here. It seems enough people prefer it than people clamoring for wins, arguing about the leaderboards, and having the “ready to lose scrub?” mentality. This also goes into my point of treating other people in Arena OOC's differently than they have been in the past. Like I said, "tone down on the attitude so people can find talking with people in the forum non-confrontational and you'll have more people joining long-term". You can disagree on the notion that competitive orientation being problematic, but I'm sorry but there are other ways to look at Arena-style RP than just “play to win”. I've experienced it on older forums, but “play to have fun, win or lose” is just as valid and for RPG as a community I personally think its better for the sub-forum going forward.

Again, just do something. Clucking in here isn't going to help the Arena, which you all seem to want to do. Start a tournament, book some fights. Hell have a 'ArenaMania", come together and do something. Learn from each other. See how different characters work, see what new ideas you guys can create.

@Rilla

I would, but unfortunately, at this time I have too many roleplay commitments to run something on a more active basis (like Tex wants for instance). I have time to set aside for discussion and dialogue but not running something large that takes a lot of time and focus. Maybe in the future. We'll see.

[Mobius]

I've said it once and said it before. Arena-style roleplaying has in the past – admittedly on other sites – been more about creating a fight that is enjoyable no matter the outcome.

@Inkarnate

That's a first I've heard of it. People come to play to win cause it's a game and the story comes later if at all.

It seems enough people prefer it than people clamoring for wins, arguing about the leaderboards, and having the “ready to lose scrub?” mentality.

@Inkarnate

Oh yeah? I challenge that right off the bat. Where are they and show me their activity then. Go make it happen right now instead of telling me that it exist, because I don't see it.

You can disagree on the notion that competitive orientation being problematic, but I'm sorry but there are other ways to look at Arena-style RP than just “play to win”.

@inkarnate

That is as much as your opinion as it is mine, but the purpose of fighting is to win. You don't join a tournament to lose. No one who is serious does that. You can join a fight to improve(get better at winning) or because pitting wits is fun(to see how you can win). You can do it because fighting is how you tell a story, but don't sit and say there's more than playing to win for competitive play and arena. The end of all of those motivations always come down to whether someone wins or loses.. even your precious stories have winners and losers. That's just life.

I've experienced it on older forums, but “play to have fun, win or lose” is just as valid and for RPG as a community I personally think its better for the sub-forum going forward.

@inkarnate

Then don't tell me about it

Show me with all of your wisdom and make it happen cause I've yet to see it.

I would, but unfortunately, at this time I have too many roleplay commitments to run something on a more active basis (like Tex wants for instance). I have time to set aside for discussion and dialogue but not running something large that takes a lot of time and focus. Maybe in the future. We'll see.

@Inkarnate

Always an excuse with these idealist, I swear.

The main problem is this: You got a bunch of people who aren't active in the arena and have NO INTENTION OF EVER PLAYING but they cook up these excuses as to why they don't come here. When you press them to do something about it: they don't. They want to cry. They want someone to do it for them and I'll tell you why:

They want someone who can make it happen do it for them. They sell you on a lie that their ideas can bring activity here, but as 2 yes 2 tournaments have proven no it doesn't. The people who wanna be here WILL BE HERE and are already here. The reasons they don't show is because they don't want to and nothing you will do will change it, because once you change it you lose your primary player-base and you'll never get the return on this imaginary "guarantees" from these others to support you.

You really want the arena to be active? This is how you do it: reach out to players who do fight and can fight. You go to arena regulars, names who you know are about that arena play, and new players who do want to fight. You don't reach out to people who aren't about that action. It isn't like a bunch of them were here when I showed up: it was as dead as it is now. I got here with regulars who were looking for something to do and worked with them: for better or for worst. I've never seen Tex, Inkarnate, or Silver Carrot but I have seen Leeroy, Doc, Melon, Pollen, Xavier, members of the YGG, Rilla, Dynamo, and Tasuke. I reached out to people who I know will do a thing and hopefully finish one. You don't reach out to the wrong crowd because they are going to make demands and want things you can't fulfill that'd end up alienating those who could or has supported you: those who actually post here and brought frequency, these other guys aren't going to do that. They think "Playing to win" is inherently bad. Do you really want people like that dictating the spirit of an arena? They don't even know how competition works or competitive players think. We have fun a different way and some of us can do both.

I mean, shit if they mean it they can make threads about it right now. They don't need permission from guild to build that interest: according to them that interest is there. Sure.. then do it. I never asked Rilla or anyone to do my thing so why should you? Focus on how you play and not on the rest of us.

Go. Make it happen. Show us how it's done and this fun you have and bring activity here. Make it yourself and be proud of your work.

Edit* No disrespect to Rilla for trying his tournaments. At least he tried it and they failed for whatever reason so I am not knocking the dude.

[mickilennial]

I already am participating (and leading some of them) over a dozen roleplays. I am not going to treat my players disrespectfully just to “prove” anything to you or others. But you are correct that those who want to do Arena (whatever way it is designed) should just do it. If people have time and energy to devote they should do it. But I can see why they might not want to given the pushback and sentiment given here in this thread. Role-playing is a fickle hobby and people are going to join and not stick around. But if you want Arena to rejuvinated and not be a decaying waste of space you want to make sure those newcomers want to stay around.

The purpose of role-playing is collaborating creative ideas and creating a story. In my opinion that supersedes any precedent of an “alpha mentality” that suggests arena-oriented roleplay is inherently competitive. I respect your opinion, but I just think our perception inherently is oppositional so I'm just going to put the pin in this dialogue and move on to other things. I hope you get what you want out of the section in the future. I hope those who criticize it and want to partipcate actually put their money where their mouth is when they have the time to give. I hope everyone can be more constructive and productive in the future in terms of discussions like this. Despite the disagreements made in the last few pages I think some progress has been made.

Have a good one.