RPGC #2 Conversation Thread — Roleplayer Guild

Here's my delayed responses to the different reviews of my entry. Thanks to all those who reviewed it.

@PlatinumSkink
Bonus Challenges: King of the Hill?

The problem I have with this submission is that nothing really happens, or at least nothing "on the page".  For instance, the protagonist, Effraye, does rally the refugees to go fight, but we do not see this happening.  We only see the end result or a short description.  I cannot claim that the protagonist was useless to the plot (as his efforts helped turn the tide of the battle, but we don't see the how he did it.  That's my gripe with it.
@DedonusActions... take a lot of words. I specifically constructed this entry to be as short as I could make it. That has consequences. I ruled that the words that drove everything into being were more important, so they stayed. Now, would the story have been better had I excluded the scenes that now are in and included all the actions? ... It would probably still be a story, quite a lot more exciting a story, but not the story I intended to tell! XD ... That's a kind of amusing thought, really. ... Heh.

Fits the theme nicely. The choice of the protagonist being hit by an arrow only makes his individual powerlessness more obvious. The final section feels a bit unfinished. The story could have benefited from more details on the various characters and on the various nations. Perhaps also a bit more detail on how the battle was turned beyond being provided a new element of chaos.
@EllriThe final section feels unfinished...? ... Hm. What would you say it is missing? I'm curious because I feel it is rather complete. And yes, a few more details would probably have benefited, but it would also have been drawn out more. I currently decided to make this as short as I could to examine the effect, and I acknowledge that it could probably have been more detailed, but I like how it became. Thank you very much for saying that it fit. I feel kind of proud of that. Tihi.

@PlatinumSkink
I like the plot a whole awful lot. But my favorite thing is the characters – Marta especially, and Conifant too, although he doesn’t have *quite* enough time to really shine. Everything adds up tactically and the planning effort on your end hasn’t gone unnoticed. In short, the structure of this story is fantastic. Something you could do better (says an idiot on the internet) is, this whole narrative is really only about Effraye. No one does anything unless it specifically involves him, even if they’re a king or a knight or an enemy general. Not that we really need to be interested in what those other blokes ate for breakfast or anything, but the story becomes exponentially more deep when there’s another agenda added. That’s actually what the word “intrigue” means – two motivations squaring off. It’s hard to be intriguing with no intrigue, right? You certainly don’t have to go full Game of Thrones on your stories – especially short stories. That would do more harm than good. Something as simple as showing us why the king is upset would instantly add a layer of depth to the whole narrative and put Effraye’s actions into context. Which makes them more significant, which makes the story more interesting, which makes it better, right? Of course that’s easier said than done – the doing probably involves a lot of boring exposition. But that’s the art. Anyway Effraye’s journey here makes a great story. We actually tossed aside a bonus category called “Magikarp,” and I wish we’d kept it – Effraye the uselessly splashing fish out of water just saved his country, and it would’ve been perfect. Very clever take on the theme, well done!
@mdkYeah, Confiant was one (out of quite a few actually) characters that I decided to cut, but then while writing I actually decided I had a use for him, hence why he had such a passing role. I'm glad, and honestly surprised, he managed to leave a positive impact despite this. Haha. And yepp, I tried out the structuring which you suggested. I am happy that this paid off. Ah, yes, I could have made it about more than Effraye, but that would have made the story longer and I decided it was unnecessary for the short story I intended to get across. I do realize I could have made it deeper, but as of this entry I wanted to keep it simple. Thank you, anyways. Teh-heh, I'll consider him the unofficial winner of the Magikarp bonus category, then. Thank you very much, mdk~! ;)

> B-
Reading this entry, it feels like all the important bits, the moments of conflict and tension, were left out. We don't get to see Effraye's efforts, nor the battle, and his initial rejection is only barely touched upon. Instead, we seem to focus on some short, very to-the-point conversations.

In addition, the narrative jumped about temporally a couple times—in particular when it mentioned Effraye's revolution after the results of it had already been announced. It feels a little jumbled about. I guess I also have some trouble with it because I'm personally not fond of the dialogue—in a dialogue-heavy entry—which feels like it is rambling about and far more vibrant and playful than the situation calls for.

I have little else to say, sorry. The story was good, but didn't feel like it progressed smoothly.

@PlatinumSkink, author of Little Me. You are gtting better with the ellipses! The dialogue is of a somewhat similar nature to the previous entry—really pushing out and vibrant, though less rant-y than the last time, which is good.
@HolmishireYay! I got a B~! *bounces in happiness*	(B-, but I count that as B! XD)

Actually, I feel the bits I included are the important bits. What's important is not what he's doing, but how we know that he came to the decision of what to do and what this resulted in. I feel the origin and the result of an action is more important than the action itself, even if reading the action might be a lot more exciting. To-the-point conversations helped keep the entry short, which was my mission.

I'm not entirely sure how you mean the narrative jumped about and how it felt jumbled. ... Heh. The dialogue felt vibrant and playful, eh? Well... that's actually the atmosphere I had in mind when I wrote it. Oh, and whenever Marta is there, you can be sure the atmosphere automatically gets softer, because that's the kind of character she is. Not sure how to fix the "rambling about" part, but in any case. Thanks~

I'm getting better with ellipses? ... Alright, then~! Are you sure that's not just a coincidence because I was writing an entry that required less ellipses? Hahaha. Thanks, anyway~

King of the Hill -- Perhaps ironically, 'Powerless' by @PlatinumSkink swept the category. We loved the compelling story of a nothing-sized kid rising to the challenge and seizing (perhaps short-lived) power on the battlefield -- enough to rival his own king's commands! Several others were considered for this category but I can't possibly name you all -- regardless, good job to the lot of you.@mdk... King of the Hill? ... Uuuuh, you sure my entry fits the... I guess it technically does. I mean, there weren't any challengers with names, but... ... ... Well, in any case. Thanks for the honour~! Haha.

Alright, I promised reviews. And they're officially in the works. Know it's been a while. And now they are OFFICIALLY done.

The problem with this being a sequel to your other entries is this: there will be voters and reviewers/readers who see your entry without having read the previous entry. They won't have the development you had from previous entries, or the backstories. Thus they won't have any idea what is going on and will believe the entry does not stand. Personally, I'd say you should consider changing to a different story or make your entries significantly longer. There is no characterization or pieces of information that make the main character grab a hold of my interest. She's pretty super powered, very much bordering on a Mary-Sue if she already isn't one. Not interesting for readers. You need to flesh out more length and get down to the depth of your characters. Make them feel real. Look, I don't believe films or stories are great for "being realistic", I think the best works of art are great at creating an ILLUSION of reality. What are their wants and desires? What are their strengths and flaws? These will add layers upon your characters, and will pave the road to their development by the end of the story. On another note, when she escaped from the chair. You probably need to describe that action sequence in more detail. Her hands were tied and she was in a chair. The escape as it happened, didn't seem plausible. Also made me feel like she was never in danger at all, and that's cheap. You want to keep your readers in suspense, and actually worry about what will happen. And adding those layers of depth will help draw out emotions because right now I don't care what happens to her. You've got an interesting concept, now you just need to work on what makes an interesting concept a great story.

Funny that your entry comes after another sequel, and yours is one as well. In any case, you face the same problem as Delta Squad when it comes to having all your entries be sequels to your previous entries. People who haven't read the first, will not understand the second. Could cost you votes, and I also think it will affect your storytelling. You believe you established certain things from the first entry, so you don't have to do it for this one. I'm here to tell you that's incorrect. You still need to establish the world, its rules, the characters, etc. And I don't mean huge colossal paragraphs of exposition. It could be fairly simple. Think about your character, what they want, etc. Flaws and strengths. What he thinks about his brother, and more. We will begin to understand. You may also need to extend the length of your entries to capture the full potential of the story. And with this one, I felt like you didn't build enough connection to your characters. I was never worried for him, and I never quite cared for whatever it was he was doing. You don't want an apathetic reader. Again, cool concept. Now you need to put the work into everything else.

I'm rather torn on the beginning of this. Almost seemed like a voice over to a movie right as we're about to delve into the character's life. Sometimes a voiceover is cool and it works. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. This is kind of both. We can see Hawkins is cerebral and has many opinions. But, that may be more effective by developing Hawkins through the action as the plot pushes forward. See how she thinks of political ideals of Democrat/Republican beforehand, then watch as it changes. And this is war. Don't go easy on Hawkins. She's going to experience hell and most likely will have several horrifying experiences and harrowing thoughts cross her mind. Hawkins might become jaded, she might dehumanize the enemy so she is able to come to terms with killing. People change in war. Take advantage of the climate of combat, a lot of things happen to a person. Probably needed this story to be a bit longer. I'd say cut the entire first part before the third person comes in. Use that space for more story. Keep on writing. This could be really goddamn good, and it's already impressive in several other areas.

Lots of telling. Almost all telling. Not much show here, and even if you told what happened well, exposition doesn't really make a story. You have an interesting concept, but that's only halfway there. I want to see you reach the potential you have with this story, and your writing. Practice on describing settings, characters, etc. without TELLING us about them. Writing that a man has a shaky sword hand (or gun hand if you will) would tell us he is nervous in battle. Or perhaps a man shoots a man, and he looks down at his hand and it is completely still. That's an example from The Godfather where Michael Corleone realizes he was not shaking after killing someone. Speaks a whole lot more about a character than saying "Mike's hand does not shake because he is not nervous." Let's change that to… "His hand was still." Get what I'm saying? We can gather a lot more about your characters, and we could see what powers your characters have if we see them in action. Every now and then you could use exposition if we don't really need to get to know EVERY rainbow character. But it should be part of the fun that we get to see their powers for the first time. Also, by showing, we can actually see the plot unfold through action. We can get to know the characters through everything they do. It'd make us feel something for them, which currently I do not feel. Keep on working!

Yup. You definitely write quite like Cormac McCarthy. Not a bad thing at all, I say. One of the best writers alive right now. And your quality is wonderful. You're a talented writer. Very talented. I love the idea of an artificial sun. A life deprived of the old simple pleasures. Father looking back fondly on the past. Losing touch with his wife, obviously creating a separation. You beautifully made those struggles apparent with the father-daughter-mother dynamic. Your descriptions are on point. Dialogue quick and to the point. But it leaves things unsaid. A lot of reading between the lines and it makes for a more powerful story. Compelling characters, and a cool concept. I can relate to every single one of your characters. You've got this sympathy and empathy thing down. It's just short. The story can't reach its true potential because its short. We need more. More story. More depth. I want more. Call me selfish but I do. Especially if it means I get to see even more of your quality story-telling. Well done. One of the best in this contest.

Oh man that was friggin' brilliant. I also nearly voted for your poem to win this. The wit in this poem is wonderful. You had me laughing, laughing so hard. First, the pegasus imagery going along with this piece on coffee is such an interesting choice. Great flow, awesome rhythm, clever and funny. The concept is great and structured quite nicely. I was wondering where you were going and then you hit me with the second half. You made a rather dark topic funny. Satire I suppose, or parody. Making fun of coffee, people droning about in their daily lives almost addicted to the substance without a care or knowledge of the things behind it… Makes for a depressing topic, I can see why you went the humor route. That was a whole lot of fun. Excellent work.

Fun concept, solid characters, fairly well done descriptions. You paced your story out well. I could definitely get a hang of the plot points and felt we were moving forward. Pacing is a difficult thing to get a hold of! Always nice to see when it's done well. The characters are fleshed out, and the dialogue works with me. Mostly anyway. Some moments it felt a bit stiff, or perhaps cliche. Those few moments do not mean you created bad characters. Quite the contrary, your characters have depth and are interesting. Well done. BUT, the story fizzles out in the end. You build up to this object and then… nothing. Don't make something that feels so great and water down the ending. No one likes that. Anti-climactic endings are the worst. Maybe it ACTUALLY has power. Maybe it doesn't, but dramatic things are done to acquire the object. I have no idea, that's up to you. But because we fizzle out and nothing happens, and no one really DOES anything substantial due to the object there is no room for character development. That's a shame too, considering you have a great cast. You're very, very close.

I mean. I can't really add too much to what mdk already said. Poems typically don't get my vote in these contests. Probably because it's less writing, and traditional storytelling caters to me better. But, if I did vote for poetry (and I enjoy poetry), the poem would have to stand out. Seeing as I voted for you, you definitely stood out. Like a neon sign in the middle of nowhere. I don't envy the amount of time it took you to write this, but I certainly envy your talent. For me, it almost felt like I was reading an old English Shakespeare poem. Though not with any Shakespearian structure to it. You had an interesting rhythm and I wonder why you made that choice. Regardless, it worked amazingly well. Soldier of God, the imagery. That read so smoothly, flowed like a faucet. That was a privilege to read. Thank you.

Short and sweet. I do enjoy a quality work that's concise. Very pleasant read you got there. Perhaps too short to really be a top notch entry. I think there are more hints that you could throw in to make us realize it's just the old Grandfather with his decaying mind and delusions as he works on an old clock. I mean, I got that instantly at the epilogue. But perhaps we're curious of what the "they" stands for in the story. Keep "them" out. Who is "them" or "they"? I suppose it could just be left to our imagination. Some crazy thoughts of the Grandfather, or he's thinking of those who will come and bring him to heaven/afterlife. This feels like something that could be a section of a high quality piece of fiction. Small part of a great book. Charming work here. Good job.

Oh why hello there. That was one fascinating piece of work. Man was that dark. But wow, you've got me hooked. A dread fascination with that story and I need to know more and more. The plot of a dark sci-fi novel in the works, perhaps? Seriously. Consider it. Every aspect of the story came together. You didn't have much, if any at all, wasted scenes. Everything felt like it was necessary to push the plot forward, and that's a pleasant thing to have in a story. Not much wasted space. While I can't say it left me with a sense of… enjoyment? I'm not sure what the word would be. Perhaps it's the kind of reading I would do every once in a while, but isn't my cup of tea. But I'll tell you what, you got me reading and I couldn't stop. So there's that. Interesting, dark, characters with depth, and fascinating points of view. All comes together to make a compelling story. Add in your world and you've got a winner. A world of which I'd like to see more. It got a bit heavy-handed at times, though I blame that on length and time constrictions. More time allows you to flesh out the world here and develop these characters even more. Think about this as a novel. I'd read every single page.

I liked your take on the theme. Although Effraye appears powerless with no major lands, authority, etc. he proves he has power by ability to lead. To inspire and band together people to a single cause and make a change. Proving he does have some sort of power. It's a sentimental idea I like seeing. And I enjoyed reading this. Wish we could see more Confiant. Marta is a strong character, and I wonder if she even takes over as the primary character. It seems she wants what Effraye wants more than he does. I'd ask the questions of… why can't Marta push others to Effraye's dream rather than him? What makes Effraye so special that she has to motivate him to further his own cause? Marta seems to want the same things. Food for thought I suppose. Don't get me wrong, Effraye is still compelling. I'm fond of the apprehensive hero and his optimistic companion. The story seems to need more. More length perhaps to give us more character depth and development. Well done overall. Thanks for the read!

My personal preference is for a poem to be innovative in the way it tries to tell its story or point. You had some good images, but many have been used several times. There's not a lot new here that I haven't seen. Perhaps you needed to make some lines longer. You didn't have the unique edge. You're clearly passionate about this subject, so put in the effort and really bring the life to this poem. Really set your anger ablaze. Curse if need be, get down and dirty with this. I can tell you have the creative edge, and the edge in general. Explore this more, dig deeper into your content. Right now it's rather tame. I can hear the fire and anger, but now I want to see it.

I now see where this love aspect suddenly comes into play during your writing. Definitely unexpected as there were no hints prior. Build that up beforehand if you're going to have it. Might actually be a nice touch to the story of the poem. Heartbreaking in it's own right if the king who kills the queen has deep feelings for her, but she has become so cold and cruel that he has to do this for some greater purpose. Not wanting to kill her, but is left with that as the only choice. But right now, that's the primary flaw because it wasn't built up. The imagery is gorgeous, and I do love my imagery. Rhyme scheme and meter was pleasant and made for a good flow. With the sword fight, your rhythm almost had me feel like I was dancing within the battle. Seems like this was a bit rushed. Otherwise, solid work.

I love your writing style, and that's a great start. You've got talent in creating a scene, and lots of intriguing visuals. You're engaging my senses, which is very nice. Plot structure is fine. Definitely a beginning, middle, and end. However, the main thing we're missing here is… Suspense? I'd say suspense. There is little to no character depth for each character. Apparently a battle for the throne, but the conflict lost its luster after a while. Vinn seems confident, strong, and powerful. If we're rooting for Lysa, we might even be afraid of Vinn. But you take all that fear away when your writing clearly gives way to the fact that Lysa wins the battle/is going to win the battle. Which is unfortunate because everything beforehand seems to lend itself to a rather impressive conflict. Kind of anticlimactic and boring if I already can see how it's going to turn out. Surprise me with how tremendously powerful and deceptive Lysa truly is. She's cruel and terrible. As is Vinn. You did a wonderful job building and describing this… dark, dark world. Now we need to work on these characters a bit more to really bring them to life. What's so special about them that I should care one way or another as to how this battle plays out? You have the writing down. Dialogue is powerful. Imagery, wonderful, beautiful and terrifying. Characters are the heart of your story. Make those hearts beat with life, and the rest will come with it.

I mean if you want to keep entering these contests with massive entries with interesting characters (that develop), cool concepts, and engaging plot lines… Sure, go ahead and keep entering. I'll gladly keep reading whatever it is you have to write. No one wants to discourage you from entering these contests. It's a way to practice your writing. Think of new ideas, who knows? Maybe one of these ideas will turn into a great novel or be transformed into one through editing.R Regardless, I'm looking forward to seeing more of your writing. It's a treat. But perhaps I'm irresponsible for NOT discouraging you to enter. Man, decisions decisions. Whatever. You do you, Keyguy. 

Ultimately the major flaws in this story are due to its lack of length. Stunning, I know. You've got the longest entry, but it suffers because it's not long enough. Seriously, this should be a novel. A long, drawn out, written adventure with a plot full of awesome and explosions. You've got relatable, interesting characters, an expansive world and an epic plot. There's plenty of intrigue here. But for this to truly click and work on all levels, it needs to be longer. Your first entry also needed to be longer to really nail down the character depths and development. But, what the first one did better than this was that I could believe some movements of the plot. We moved rather quickly here from one thing to the next. Go here, go there, make this decision and that decision. 

I didn't believe that the men would not fire at their commander's orders because Mami gave a speech. They don't know Mami. They're soldiers who typically do as they are commanded. Honestly, I highly doubt they wouldn't fire. We didn't have enough development around them to make me as a reader believe that would be the case. Now, Naoko on the other hand. Woo boy, did you develop her. We saw her grow. Backstory laid out, original thoughts pushed forward. And then they were flipped upside down with her character depth and growth. Take care of everything with the delicate touch you did with her, and all will be well. 

All things considered, this WAS another excellent entry. Keep workin'. Take these things into consideration and wow us again as I'm sure you will. Write a goddamn novel. Cool. Well done. Until next time!

Don't need so many parentheses. Takes away from the story and feels like you haven't communicated something well enough through your text. I don't know whether this was just a stylistic choice or if there was some sort of lack of confidence with your writing. As a choice, it wasn't necessary and didn't add anything of true value. Mdk covered this pretty well in his own review. We don't need that commentary, but I suppose it sort of fits in with the way your characters are written. It's a conversational tone with the reader. I did enjoy that, and you definitely seemed to enjoy writing this piece. I can't tell you to not do this because you should be enjoying yourself. And if it's a lack of confidence in your own skill, stop it. There's clear talent here in your writing. Keep it up. Although the style you've chosen to write this in isn't my favorite, there are times where I enjoy it a lot. This was one of those times. I had a good time with this piece. I'm intrigued with what you come up with next.

You're touching upon something here. Some might feel this is sad for the purpose of being sad, an exploitative tug on the heart strings to usher in a cheap pull of feelings from the audience. That can get you negative opinions from readers who feel cheated. I don't think you wrote this for that purpose. The topic means something to you and is important to you, I can tell. This feeling stems from the entry being far too short. We didn't get to know your characters. Yes, you gave us their backstories. But you told us their backstories. I didn't feel or see what they went through. Didn't get an idea of who they were through their reactions until they started a school shooting which shows they were on the verge of a breaking point. I'd like to get to know your characters before this goes down. Give us a slow burn. I'd say tragic events such as these never JUST happen. They feel like they JUST happen, but it's a slow burn until that bomb explodes because the person can't take anymore. I did not feel as though this scene was earned. Your characters were thin in depth, but had intriguing backstories whilst still needing to be fleshed out in a way I can be SHOWN them rather than told. Cancer survivor as a shooter. That's chilling and oh so very dark. Everyone had different reactions to the shooting, but also far too melodramatic? I don't really like using that word. I can never tell how others would react in a school shooting as I've never experienced one. But, for some reason I don't feel like many people would pause and sit still as the bullets spray around them. Fight or flight are natural responses. Perhaps one or two might sit still. Or at least try to tug others, even if they'd been shot, to safety. Think about your characters. Build them. Then this will have the power you want it to have. It's too short as it is.

RPGC #2 Conversation Thread Page 6

Terminal Rancorous Narrative Proxy

PlatinumSkink

mdk 3/4

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