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Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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No, I'm saying that a game in a franchise called Grand Theft Auto will sell crazy good numbers because every single main series entry since GTA 3 has sold more than the one before it. GTA 5 also had the benefit of coming out on two different console generations which isn't going to hurt sales whatsoever. So I suppose in this case then yes, a well known sequel will do better than the original because that's been the case with the main line GTA games since 2001.

But just because sales go up one after the other. YOU CAN'T ASSUME, it will always stay that way, WOW went up for quite a while and STILL has good numbers but has been plummeting for a while, but spoken word CAN, sell and kill, a games sales...That includes controversy.

Yeah that's the reason. The ending is why it sold more in the first month than ME2. You're leaving out the part where ME 2 wasn't multiplatform at first which is a factor in its sales figures. ME3's problems are bigger than its ending so let's stop saying that the ending ruined things, k?

Ending didn't help, and just because it wasn't it's only problem you CANNOT deny that was the biggest conterversy of the game. I don't even give a damn about Mass effect, nor is that particular important to my point.

Dead Space is also not a major franchise in the same vein as GTA or COD or, you know, major franchises that make huge bank. Dead Space 3 is a bad game. Dead Space 2 is a less bad game.

FFS fine, what are we arguing then? That good games automatically sell better than bad games?
Beyond Good & Evil sold worse than Duke Nukem Forever.
Beyond Good & Evil > Duke Nukem Forever.
Getting into the weeds, but the point you're making isn't right...
Even with things like COD.
Ghost made less than Black Ops 2. But with your logic, its a sequel so it should be receiving double the amount of people like GTA V right?

Dark Souls is a niche franchise to begin with and Dark Souls 2 is not a good game.

Doesn't remotely change the fact, and games like that can make plently of sales, bloodbourne made 2 mil sales.
I haven't played, but metacritic 91/100 / User 8.2/10
Point is still made.

At least Huniepop is funny.
Meidocre is pretty generous. No one cared about Hatred even if they bought it. Controversy gets attention, but controversy doesn't sell millions of copies. Huniepop is a cute game and I didn't pay for it and got exactly what I wanted from it.


My roommate loved Huniepop, and I'll admit it looked funny. But played neither. So neither here nor there. Hype culture can certainly get people to purchase stuff that isn't very good, look at something like Alien Colonial Marines as one example.
(Over 1 million copies sold) Metacritic 45/100 / User 3.0/10

AND are you seriously telling me controversy can't sell? How about the fuck awful comedy movie that North Korea tried to ban. Your telling me that DIDN'T SELL MILLIONS OF COPIES?!? (Because I can tell you right now, it more than likely did.)

foodworldnews.com/articles/12594/20141..

Show me where the controversy behind GTA 5 (and what controversy was there? The lack of a female protagonist thing? Or the same bullshit that every GTA game gets in regards to violence and stuff) is what let it get such high sales and day one numbers. I am literally actually right now telling you that the supposed 'where's the female playable characters' discussion did, in no way, boost that games sales to such an astronomical degree. Do you think the No Russian level in Modern Warfare 2 made that game sell so well?
Controversy doesn't sell things in such high volume. You're seriously overestimating the influence gamergoobers and ess jays have on the gaming world.


Once again, you are showing that you are very unknowing of this topic and shouldn't be looking down at people for knowledge or you are being disingenuous...

reaxxion.com/2643/australian-sjws-lied..

youtube.com/watch?v=rvJ1StFJ9g8 (SJWS/Feminists tried to spin a narrative of getting points for raping women and events where you rape woman and they were fucking lying.)

There's probably far more as well...and no not every piece of controversy makes things sell, your right about that, like negative reviews don't give the games free press. But, it's wrong to say games like Huniepop, didn't benefit from people whining about it. Because it most certainly did.

reaxxion.com/5639/huniepop-devs-heap-r.. (If you care enough to research the exact dates feel free, but I can guartuee you, whining can make difference...From getting develops to stop being shitheads or to backfire immensely and buy things almost out of spite.)

GTA 4 has sold 25 million units but sure, only mention the week one numbers there.

My point remains valid...double the sales despite other sequels not doing as well. Name recognition is NOT all that there is to it. Nor does a good game sequel related to better sales. That was my point. And it is quite correct. I messed up a number, doesn't not invalidate what I said...Trying to deny that, is being beyond disingenuous.

I mean, if you want the topic to die just do what I do and ignore both sides of the coin because both sides are full of chodes.

But you're not what so ever trying to ignore it. Your apart of it and you were being condesceding to something you were not even right about...It clear certain people are circle jerking this topic and its not going anywhere. And yeah both sides may be full of idiots, but one side's main point is not correct.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@Vilageidiotx Here's the thing, I'm not even arguing it was SJW's that SOLD every copy of GTA V on store shelves.

But saying and by thumbing up agreeing. That controversy, CAN'T SELL ANYTHING!

IS OH SO WRONG.

Though you admit it can, so I want to know exactly what you agree with???

...Because that's exactly what is being argued. By the opposition. >.>

I don't perceive the SJW thing to have penetrated general society as much as people on the internet want to think.


Anita Sarkeesian went to the fucking United Nations...

It's gotten things to be banned in various countries, home to millions of people.

The fact the internet can't shut the hell up about it...that literally every news, site, journal, blog has discussed this topic...

I can assure you, this problem (as first world a problem as it is) IS NOT, ironically, a small one.

This kind of thing, despite being a loud minority, it's still millions of very uneducated individuals screaming and shouting.

Your still correct that people bitching about false issues, is not a new thing and it will remain irrelevant to real life and most people don't care about it and it may not ever negatively effect any sales. But I can tell you from personal experience, various people I know admitting they bought a game because of the whole movement, simply out of spite.

It's like the people all buying guns, the minute someone tries to pass a law to take them away. It MAY be silly, just like how many people sign petitions for things that will never amount to anything. It still usually DOES change things in some way. I'll fully admit that it's dumb that sales can spike simply due to spite. But it happens in movies, it happens in games. And I know it for a fact...
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Dinh AaronMk
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Huniepop or Hatred


Huniepop is a shitty dating sim, and Hatred is a game about being a mass shooting.

For the case of Hatred the ire it attracted wasn't really so much about it being insensitive and offensive, but how hard it was trying to be edgy. It all just came off as being a game of no point and reason, violence for the sake of violence, which made a lot of people laugh and groan at the concept. It's really something that was really difficult to take seriously.



It only made it worse that the developers said there was no point to it.

At the most there was a lot of hate towards it by people who don't want to say gaming painted over in newer and newer coats of bad news. But it was only ever paid attention to by those people. I don't think it ever got outside the gaming world proper.

And then the game came out and it got "alright" sales and the gameplay was "average" at best and no one talked about it. It built controversy, but bombed on everything else so every forgot about it. But the controversy around it - as I came to know it - wasn't so much "muh social justice" but more, "The artistic direction of this in all fields is fucking terrible" with a side of, "Fuck I hope Fox doesn't hear of this".

Huniepop is just played by lonely weaboos.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Sen
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Here's the thing, I'm not even arguing it was SJW's that SOLD every copy of GTA V on store shelves.

But saying and by thumbing up agreeing. That controversy, CAN'T SELL ANYTHING!
IS OH SO WRONG.

Why do you bother bringing me up when all I did was basically the equivalent of a nod? Anyway, my biggest issue with what you're talking about (besides your way too angry tone) is that you seem to be making peoples' statements out to be way more extreme than they originally were. Nobody said that controversy didn't affect anything. The point (in a very broad sense), in my opinion, was that just because something's ~edgey and controversial~, doesn't mean it will sell billions because those fukin sjws.

What was that one saying again? Correlation doesn't imply causation?
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@Sen If you were going to quote bringing you up using the part were I was talking to one person individually...Probably isn't the best place to do it. Because it isn't correct.

But your point remains, kind of. So I'll address it. Because that means someone likes what they are saying, meaning more than one person thinks their point is true.

Controversy can't sell. When that's misinformation I'm debunking, in hope to educate anyone that thinks otherwise.

I sound angry because the person came off as condescending to a correct statement telling him they were laughing at how wrong he was. When they weren't. And it stuck a chord with me. I apologize if you feel insulted.

That's precisely what happened.

lol if you think gta made money because of offended people and not because it had the words 'grand theft auto' on the box

That is implying that you are looking down on someone/laughing at their face for the opinion that GTA V many controversy didn't sell copies of the game.

It does not come off tastefully, NOR is it even accurate. You liked it, so you at least agreed with the statement, and possible how it was said.

I'll will not pretend I'm not being aggressive, but this individual has said things that strike a chord with me. Mostly because of how incorrect it is.

Show me where the controversy behind GTA 5 (and what controversy was there?)

Saying this, I can almost hear the patronizing voice this sentence is in...Like "show me prove, I think your lying, controversy of GTA 5? Ha, What nonsense..." When it had like 10 different freaking controversies, many having to do with the SJW crowd.

What am I getting wrong exactly? (aside from granting you, I'm showing how sick I am of people spreading lies like its truth. So I'm not in a great mood and it shows through the text...Everything I've said is correct, and there opinion does seem to be that extreme. There's nothing contrary to it.)
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Sen
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But saying and by thumbing up agreeing. That controversy, CAN'T SELL ANYTHING!
IS OH SO WRONG.

Controversy can't sell. When that's misinformation I'm debunking, in hope to educate anyone that thinks otherwise.

Sorry, am I reading this wrong? Because, um. What I'm getting is a contridiction.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Frettzo
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@SleepingSilence, don't you think you're escalating this issue more than it rightfully should be? I mean, it's just a discussion about brand, controversy and sales.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vilageidiotx
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I lost track of this argument rather suddenly.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@Sen Are you now? So you're implying those two statements aren't the same thing?

Controversy can't sell. When that's misinformation I'm debunking, (Means I think that people saying such is wrong.)

That controversy, CAN'T SELL ANYTHING! Is wrong. (Is the same statement.)

Maybe because how one is slightly meaner than the other? But I didn't say I was nice either time, so please point out what the helk you mean, because I don't understand it.)
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@Frettzo I'll admit I'm pissed off at something IRL, and I'm probably not in a great mood. So maybe so...

But my point is still right, and the thing said was wrong and it wasn't said in a respectful manner in anyway. Plus my overall pet peeve of people lying and acting ignorant.

And everyone else can be disrespectful and wrong? So why can't I do the same, and just be correct?

Saying lol you know nothing, isn't a discussion, it's an insult. Whether or not it was even meant to be. There was no legit discussion going on, just misinformation, and I cannot stand misinformation as literally pointless and hopeless as it is to correct it. I also blame being bored and having nothing really better to do with my time at the current moment.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Shorticus
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Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Cyndyr
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Methinks this thread is beginning to stray a little from its purpose. And not even in the entertaining way because I can't follow it. :(
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Fabricant451
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@Sen If you were going to quote bringing you up using the part were I was talking to one person individually...Probably isn't the best place to do it. Because it isn't correct.

But your point remains, kind of. So I'll address it. Because that means someone likes what they are saying, meaning more than one person thinks their point is true.

Controversy can't sell. When that's misinformation I'm debunking, in hope to educate anyone that thinks otherwise.


The whole initial point of my first 'lol' post to the guy was that the controversy was not what got GTA 5 to sell millions of copies. My point then became 'controversy from the goobergobbers and ess jays doesn't sell millions of copies of things'. Does controversy get attention? Sure. But when someone on Twitter goes "This game offends me" and you have people on the other side going 'fuckin ess jays ruining vidya' those people badmouthing the offended aren't then going to cause a huge bump in sales. GTA 5 did not sell 60 million copies because people were angry over the lack of a female protagonist on Twitter. The Interview was going to make money regardless of how it came out because a movie with Seth Rogen and James Franco in it gets the people laughing down the aisles. Did being banned help sales? Undoubtedly, but so did Seth Rogen and James Franco promoting the shit out of it because of the ban.

Controversy is nothing new and people have been using it to sell shit for ages. Like a whole selling point of the 2 Live Crew was that they made songs explicitly talking about sex in an era where that was frowned upon but only one of their albums even managed to move decent numbers. But controversy on its own is not going to increase sales at the millions of copies level.

I sound angry because the person came off as condescending to a correct statement telling him they were laughing at how wrong he was. When they weren't. And it stuck a chord with me. I apologize if you feel insulted.


I hope you mean me by this because I stand by what I said. I'll even quote it now. 'lol if you think gta made money because of offended people and not because it had the words 'grand theft auto' on the box'

lol if you think gta made money because of offended people and not because it had the words 'grand theft auto' on the box


Wait shit, you did it for me. Dammit.

That is implying that you are looking down on someone/laughing at their face for the opinion that GTA V many controversy didn't sell copies of the game.


I'm no more looking down at him for that view as I am for his crack about a Star Wars parody called The SJW Awakens. I assumed it was said in jest.

I stand by what I said. And I don't know how much more clear I can make it. GTA 5's controversy, whatever one you wanna lump onto it, wasn't what caused the game to sell a massive number of copies. I'm not saying that it HURT sales because obviously it didn't nor am I saying it didn't help sales but to say that offended people are a prime reason why the game sold well is just incorrect. It came out near the end of a console generation and at the start of a new one. It was going to make money from the jump.

It does not come off tastefully, NOR is it even accurate. You liked it, so you at least agreed with the statement, and possible how it was said.


Sen didn't do anything wrong, friendo.

I'll will not pretend I'm not being aggressive, but this individual has said things that strike a chord with me. Mostly because of how incorrect it is.


What's incorrect about my lol comment about GTA? Like what have we even been discussing this whole time.

Show me where the controversy behind GTA 5 (and what controversy was there?)

Saying this, I can almost hear the patronizing voice this sentence is in...Like "show me prove, I think your lying, controversy of GTA 5? Ha, What nonsense..." When it had like 10 different freaking controversies, many having to do with the SJW crowd.


You are reading way more into my posts than I put into them, friendo. And you're not even putting the full quote in there. I'm not asking you to show me the controversy the game had. I was asking you to show me that the controversy moved sales of the game. I know GTA 5 had controversy. So did GTA 4. So did GTA San Andreas. GTA is a controversial series because it's the video game people not in the know turn to as proof that games are violent murder simulators now that shit like Doom is outdated.

Watch Dogs also had controversies from the boogeymen ess jay crowds and yet that game didn't move anywhere near GTA numbers. The offended people in the video games world are a much, much smaller percentage of the market than you might think. There's a reason that it's always the same people that get put in the image macros and in the reactionary Youtube videos.

What am I getting wrong exactly? (aside from granting you, I'm showing how sick I am of people spreading lies like its truth. So I'm not in a great mood and it shows through the text...Everything I've said is correct, and there opinion does seem to be that extreme. There's nothing contrary to it.)


The only lie I've spread today is that Huniepop is a funny game.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@Cynder Well that's what I've been saying, not that it matters, because people still keep bringing up things that aren't just general complaints about life...

But, I don't think defending stupid things said, is the same as saying the stupid things in the first place...I digress.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Cyndyr
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@Cynder Well that's what I've been saying, not that it matters, because people still keep bringing up things that aren't just general complaints about life...


My post was meant to be humorous. I don't really care what y'all discuss in here. Sorry if it came off wrong. Though I generally read this thread in secret and am a little sad I can't understand what's happening now.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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The whole initial point of my first 'lol' post to the guy was that the controversy was not what got GTA 5 to sell millions of copies. My point then became 'controversy from the goobergobbers and ess jays doesn't sell millions of copies of things'. Does controversy get attention? Sure. But when someone on Twitter goes "This game offends me" and you have people on the other side going 'fuckin ess jays ruining vidya' those people badmouthing the offended aren't then going to cause a huge bump in sales. GTA 5 did not sell 60 million copies because people were angry over the lack of a female protagonist on Twitter. The Interview was going to make money regardless of how it came out because a movie with Seth Rogen and James Franco in it gets the people laughing down the aisles. Did being banned help sales? Undoubtedly, but so did Seth Rogen and James Franco promoting the shit out of it because of the ban.

Controversy is nothing new and people have been using it to sell shit for ages. Like a whole selling point of the 2 Live Crew was that they made songs explicitly talking about sex in an era where that was frowned upon but only one of their albums even managed to move decent numbers. But controversy on its own is not going to increase sales at the millions of copies level.


First sentences in both paragraphs lead to contradiction. Grand Theft Auto 5 actually purposely tried to get into controversy to sell copies. So yes, that leads to sales. And the controversy was created by people whining about violence, or whining about this or that. Games like Hatred also wanted controversy and sold copies entirely due to the fact. If you thought controversy sells, than you wouldn't be arguing the many pointless things you did...

You would of said, I agree with you that the GTA V controversy sold copies, just not as much as you might think.

Instead, you asked me WHAT CONTROVERSY THERE WAS, like it didn't exist...And I still disagree, because I don't think 15 million people would of watched Seth Rogan's terrible movie, if controversy didn't happen. It can make you millions! Eminem wouldn't of gotten so many albums sold, if he wasn't a raving asshole that made everyone call him the anti-christ. Being offense and stirring up shit, can in fact generate a lot of buzz.

I hope you mean me by this because I stand by what I said. I'll even quote it now. 'lol if you think gta made money because of offended people and not because it had the words 'grand theft auto' on the box'

Wait shit, you did it for me. Dammit.


And you asking what controversy even existed in GTA 5, and probably far more making it sound like it didn't exist or do anything...because this was the FIRST TIME you admitted it CAN sell...

You are the one underestimating the power of the media and people words, and how they can impact things. Now can either of us prove exactly why it was sold? No, so I'll leave it at that and assume we have different opinions, but your comments you said before are not the same as the ones your making right now...

I stand by what I said. And I don't know how much more clear I can make it. GTA 5's controversy, whatever one you wanna lump onto it, wasn't what caused the game to sell a massive number of copies. I'm not saying that it HURT sales because obviously it didn't nor am I saying it didn't help sales but to say that offended people are a prime reason why the game sold well is just incorrect. It came out near the end of a console generation and at the start of a new one. It was going to make money from the jump.

That is exactly what you implied when you pretend a controversy didn't exist. Or dismissing hatred and huniepop among my many other example of that being the MAIN factor of how it sold it's copies. I'm not saying that's all that happened either, I was saying. It CAN be, and usually is a BIG impact on sales. Grand Theft Auto 5 devs probably know exactly how well it does boost sales...

gamerant.com/grand-theft-auto-controve..

Sen didn't do anything wrong, friendo.

Point out where I said he did...>.>

What's incorrect about my lol comment about GTA? Like what have we even been discussing this whole time.

Trying to pretend it had no effect and the reason I know this is what you were implying because you also asked me what controversy existed like you didn't believe there even was one. (or two or three or four or five.)

And various other things you've said to me, that seemed the only purpose was to devalue what I said and what I said was.

Controversy sells, and does it well. If you agreed, we wouldn't be having this discussion nor would you have to try to point out.

Ha, I showed you it was actually 20 mil to 54 mil. <--- Shit like this wouldn't be said, if the main argument was something we both agreed with.

You are reading way more into my posts than I put into them, friendo. And you're not even putting the full quote in there. I'm not asking you to show me the controversy the game had. I was asking you to show me that the controversy moved sales of the game. I know GTA 5 had controversy. So did GTA 4. So did GTA San Andreas. GTA is a controversial series because it's the video game people not in the know turn to as proof that games are violent murder simulators now that shit like Doom is outdated.

I grant you maybe I am, but that quote isn't out of context...(and what controversy was there?) how can that even mean anything else? But what it is.


Watch Dogs also had controversies from the boogeymen ess jay crowds and yet that game didn't move anywhere near GTA numbers. The offended people in the video games world are a much, much smaller percentage of the market than you might think. There's a reason that it's always the same people that get put in the image macros and in the reactionary Youtube videos.


That's because the word of mouth, killed that game...And its main controversy WAS NOT about violence or SJW related. It was because of something entirely different therefore you're comparing apples to oranges here. It was about graphics sucking in comparison the demo trailer. I already said not all controversy means sales, usually stuff that isn't just PC culture stuff and is gaming related instead.

The only lie I've spread today is that Huniepop is a funny game.

Comedy is subject, and not really a fact or important...so...Odd point to end on. But I'd be happy to end, since I'm more than a little sure your changing your tune.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Sen
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And I still disagree, because I don't think 15 million people would of watched Seth Rogan's terrible movie, if controversy didn't happen. It can make you millions!

I actually watched it when it first came out, before I knew of any banning nonsense. Like, it wasn't even particularly edgey. It was just a dumb movie about a relavant topic. I didn't even think about the actors, I just had to time to kill and it seemed more interesting than alternatives. That said, I also regret watching it. Because it was shitty. I'm sure 14 out of those 15 million had the same kind of thought I had, or actually liked Seth Rogen And Co. You're definitely overestimating the general public's movie taste.

But the whole thing about that movie was how topical it was. Its entire purpose was to be a funny kind of "controversial", because it was made when North Korea was at its peak "popularity". It coasted on its controversiality because that was literally its only intention.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@Cynder I'm sorry if mine did as well, certainly didn't mean to sound aggressive toward you. I was just agreeing with you that's all.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by SleepingSilence
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@Sen Well I won't disagree that is was a shitty movie, I don't like Seth Rogan movies in general.

So I assume you're saying, a bunch of people won't buy something because of negative events...

nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/10/us/..

No, it's not a movie or a game but its exactly what I'm saying...Millions of people will buy things over shit like this...

huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/chick-fi..

This kind of thing, agree with it or not (probably not) this is the type of thing I'm talking about. People trying to destroy a business only for their sales to skyrocket is not insignificant...and it does and will and can produce large numbers of people that may of not ever heard or gone there, suddenly eat at that place.

mweb.co.za/games/view/tabid/4210/artic..

A controversy can in fact sell better than a good game, is precisely my point. Though is an example of short term effects not long term. Though that actually hasn't even been brought up.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Sen
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A controversy can in fact sell better than a good game, is precisely my point. Though is an example of short term effects not long term. Though that actually hasn't even been brought up.

I don't entirely disagree, in the sense that things like this do in fact gain more interest than [insert generic but very good things here], on the sheer basis that it's more initially interesting to a broader audience. I like one comment on that last article; "it is popular because of what I call the 'wet paint don't touch' theory. People want to see if it is really as grotesque as been reported." It only sold literally just because it was controversial. Everyone forgot about it immediately after, because nobody actually likes wet paint. From a money perspective, any publicity is good publicity. From any other perspective, controversy is far from ideal.

Relating to this back to the inciting incident, what's the point of The SJW Awakens if it's just some shallow controversy-grab? If you really want to change the evil SJWs' minds over to what you believe is ideal, do something meaningful instead of making fun of your believed enemy.
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