[OOC] The Duel Tower: The first year students. (A Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Academy Roleplay.) [Axed]

[LunarStandard]

Said it before saying it again. Yall too focused on having good decks or bad decks.

@Eklispe

Seconded.

Good deck-building is nothing before the Heart of the Cards.

[The Grey Dust]

You're really going to go throwing stones at me dude? If I remember correctly the GM doesn't want us using pre-made structure decks as there was an example when I was thinking of giving Ben cyber dragons I remember Ammo saying something about not making it the same as The Cyber Revolution deck or something along those lines. I added in Maxx 'c' because I didn't want to just run full on noble knights while still wanting something that helps with their draw power. With Ben's deck it's all or nothing. If he dead hands he's dead. In the first duel it was the only thing he could do to stall until he got lucky and drew his second noble arms equip.

@vancexentan

Well not to continue throwing stones, but TBH Ben's deck is one of the ones with the most Archetype exclusive cards. You really can't argue this any which way you go. You have 2 Maxx C as the only non-archetype monster, 5 non-archetype spells, and 5 non-archetype traps. Not to mention 5 archetype extra deck cards, which is to say your entire extra deck is the entire archetype.

So 45 cards total, you have (45-12)/45 Archetypes. so your currently accepted deck is about 73% noble knight.

Compare to my original decklist on page two of this thread, of (45-13)/45 Archtypes which would be less than your 73% and the GM does not accept the deck stating...

<Snipped quote by The Grey Dust>

Get rid of a few Prophecy cards and replace them with more generic ones, you've got the whole damn set in there! I pulled this kind of Bullshit before and got through with it somehow, but I'm not letting others do the same. Same with some of the spellbooks. I suggest removing the more powerful, staple cards and leaving the more niche ones. Also get rid of one of the magicians or Empress of Prophecy.

If you've made those changes, post your next version again.

@Ammokkx

Now if we do an analysis my <73% did include 2 copies of 4 card (the spellbooks), most SD's don't tend to add multiple copies, so I expected this to be trimmed down a bit, although as supporting cards I figured multiple spellbooks would fit the whole idea of a library.

Yours on the other hand has at least 2 copies of 7 cards (not including the Maxx c), and a playset of Merlin at 3. So you have 9 cards which duplicate your deck over for the purposes of monster variety. So take out the 9 copies from the total count (the denominator of "unique" cards with respect to monsters) to see just how "Archetypical" your deck really is without considering your duplicated swords support.

You get 33/36: 92% Noble Knight monsters after taking out the duplicates or in other words with respect to monsters, this ratio is very similar to the 19/21 ratio of monsters (which becomes 24/26 when adding extra deck which makes it exactly 92%).

Now consider the spells which you have 2 copies of 3 noble arms. So reduce the unique cards by 3 and account for the duplicated Maxx C by subtracting one from the denominator (you also have 90% noble knight spells btw, which falls in line with the other numbers so far).

33 "Total archetype cards" / 32 "unique cards" which can be translated to 21 "Total Unique archetype cards" / 32 "unique cards"

Which when we remove the 5 cards from extra deck from the question, you get 28/27 and 16/27

So your deck is 60% noble knights from the uniqueness aspect of individual card, but over 100% noble knight with to variety.

So yea, the mathematics proves it <_>

[Eklispe]

Bruh wasn't lying when he said he wasn't throwing stones. Those are staight up explosives. EREY BODY GET DWN SHOTS FERED!!!

[Poke]

Said it before saying it again. Yall too focused on having good decks or bad decks.

@Eklispe

Agreed.

But on the topic of the validity of Ben's Deck, both sides have had their, uh, say.

I think it'd be best if we let this topic rest until Ammokkx arrives, before it gets out of hand or whatnot.

[The Grey Dust]

<Snipped quote by Eklispe>
Agreed.

But on the topic of the validity of Ben's Deck, both sides have had their, uh, say.

I think it'd be best if we let this topic rest until Ammokkx arrives, before it gets out of hand or whatnot.

@Poke

I'm fine with it, but just pointing out the mathematics stacks the deck heavily in the favor of the noble knights despite the 60% appearance of archetype cards relative to other cards so it is deceptively weighted due to multiple multiple copies making the Varity lean more heavily towards nobles.

[vancexentan]

Yes I built Ben's deck to be based completely around the noble knights because that's what they worked best on but i didn't put in galvachad, i didn't put in artorgius, i didn't put in the field card, and i didn't put in eachter, avalon (you know banish five knights and pop the entire field), and i completely neglected to put in laudsallyn's noble arms (it's spelling evades me and ammo said to remove it so i did). I made a build based around the king himself. I could put in lightstray grepher, dawn knight, and a few other cards but all those do is put more noble knights in my grave or let my mill more of those cards in to my graveyard. Or you know Honest. Honest solves a lot of problems.

While I admit that Ben's deck is stronger than some decks, it also heavily relies on drawing the right cards. Also I don't intend to play Ben as a power player. He brought out Artorgius in his first match up only because he had no other way out of the situation at hand. If he could've fought Angelo with him or high laudsallyn he would've. I don't intend to be spamming the hell out of Ben's cards unless he feels he has to. I just played a couple test rounds on yugioh pro against the ai and due to the ai for some reason constantly getting stupidly good hands that i would never get he wrecked Andre's deck rather easily which more than likely won't end up happening here due to my own player put constraints.

Likewise Noble Knights Aren't spellbooks. I can't just spam the hell out of them. the most i get out with my build is noble knight borz, meduraut, and gawayn (that's three cards from my hand right there (medraut, gawayn, a noble arms) and one removed from my deck) two of which are in defense mode with piss defense unless i got destiny on gawayn or borz or the queen on borz. The King Artorgius is the power monster here and he gets blown to hell if he doesn't have his arms protecting him. Unlike spellbooks skill drain murders any chance i have of mounting any sort of strategy unless i get gawayn in and special summon a level 4 and have a noble arms, i can get trap holed, i can get my monsters banished or even my arms banished. Spell books you play the cards and you don't need to worry about them unless they somehow got horus out. In fact horus fucks me pretty hard too. Likewise my monster can be tribute summoned.

It's when Artorgius comes out with his giant fist and punches you in the face is when you need to worry about things. If things have gone completely right that means he has a bunch of equips and can't be destroyed or targeted like my first duel. If things go horribly wrong you got a 2(2/0)00 beater who can't pop anything in the case of the level four or is only good for holding your ground for a turn with two noble arms at his disposal. Lava Golemn, level 5-8 with monarchs stormforth, destiny hero plasma (without king having excaliburn), and volcanic queen can completely circumvent artorgius and just remove him as a none factor and if there are no other noble knights i just spent a good chunk of my deck and strategy pulling out a field with little to no defense and i need to get lucky and either pull last chapter or another medraut and hope i have a queen in my grave to bring out noble knight level 4.

Likewise he can be stepped on. U.A's are a perfect example of that. Stadium, midfielder, U.A Dreadnaught dunker, U.A Power Jersey 4000 atk, punch artorgius in the face, blow up his excaliburn, swap out for perfect ace, discard card next turn if he tries to activate his effect. If you're even luckier use U.A Penalty Box to just remove him from play for two turns burying all of the noble arms and he comes back without material or noble arms.

[The Grey Dust]

Yes I built Ben's deck to be based completely around the noble knights because that's what they worked best on but i didn't put in galvachad, i didn't put in artorgius, i didn't put in the field card, and i didn't put in eachter, avalon (you know banish five knights and pop the entire field), and i completely neglected to put in laudsallyn's noble arms (it's spelling evades me and ammo said to remove it so i did). I made a build based around the king himself. I could put in lightstray grepher, dawn knight, and a few other cards but all those do is put more noble knights in my grave or let my mill more of those cards in to my graveyard. Or you know Honest. Honest solves a lot of problems.

While I admit that Ben's deck is stronger than some decks, it also heavily relies on drawing the right cards. Also I don't intend to play Ben as a power player. He brought out Artorgius in his first match up only because he had no other way out of the situation at hand. If he could've fought Angelo with him or high laudsallyn he would've. I don't intend to be spamming the hell out of Ben's cards unless he feels he has to. I just played a couple test rounds on yugioh pro against the ai and due to the ai for some reason constantly getting stupidly good hands that i would never get he wrecked Andre's deck rather easily which more than likely won't end up happening here due to my own player put constraints.

Likewise Noble Knights Aren't spellbooks. I can't just spam the hell out of them. the most i get out with my build is noble knight borz, meduraut, and gawayn (that's three cards from my hand right there (medraut, gawayn, a noble arms) and one removed from my deck) two of which are in defense mode with piss defense unless i got destiny on gawayn or borz or the queen on borz. The King Artorgius is the power monster here and he gets blown to hell if he doesn't have his arms protecting him. Unlike spellbooks skill drain murders any chance i have of mounting any sort of strategy unless i get gawayn in and special summon a level 4 and have a noble arms, i can get trap holed, i can get my monsters banished or even my arms banished. Spell books you play the cards and you don't need to worry about them unless they somehow got horus out. In fact horus fucks me pretty hard too. Likewise my monster can be tribute summoned.

It's when Artorgius comes out with his giant fist and punches you in the face is when you need to worry about things. If things have gone completely right that means he has a bunch of equips and can't be destroyed or targeted like my first duel. If things go horribly wrong you got a 2(2/0)00 beater who can't pop anything in the case of the level four or is only good for holding your ground for a turn with two noble arms at his disposal. Lava Golemn, level 5-8 with monarchs stormforth, destiny hero plasma (without king having excaliburn), and volcanic queen can completely circumvent artorgius and just remove him as a none factor and if there are no other noble knights i just spent a good chunk of my deck and strategy pulling out a field with little to no defense and i need to get lucky and either pull last chapter or another medraut and hope i have a queen in my grave to bring out noble knight level 4.

Likewise he can be stepped on. U.A's are a perfect example of that. Stadium, midfielder, U.A Dreadnaught dunker, U.A Power Jersey 4000 atk, punch artorgius in the face, blow up his excaliburn, swap out for perfect ace, discard card next turn if he tries to activate his effect. If you're even luckier use U.A Penalty Box to just remove him from play for two turns burying all of the noble arms and he comes back without material or noble arms.

@vancexentan

You can defend the strategy, but the numbers don't lie. Just like your deck, U.A. needs the right hand to work. Same goes for any deck though. Spellbooks have tremendous spell searching power, but a properly timed skill drain stops them dead. Mind crush also stops them, along with DNA surgery declare machine. But that's how they play, hence it would be advantageous for me to have multiple copies of the searchers to quicken up the pace, however my original build only includes 1 blue boy and 2 secrets, So the chances of drawing them are lower than a real competitive deck. Thus hopefully effectively reducing the searching power of the catalogue. So if you want to talk tactics we can, however without a strong search engine, which I ended up replacing with a rml draw engine, spellbooks isn't that scary since most of their monsters are push overs. Their boss monster is priestess which is a quick summon, but also easily destroyed, so it's more of a control deck which uses fate, priestess, and wisdom to pull through most obstacles.

Arthur with 3 swords however is easily summonable on the first turn with 2 cards. Any one sword and medraut or Merlin (which effectively will ss medraut). Grab Borz, sword switch to borz, eff borz dump 3 (probably destiny, Excalibur and gwenny) and get 1, use added sword on medraut both 5, xyz for rank 5 Arthur, eff Arthur on summon, pick up 3 from the 4 noble arms. Now he's difficult to get rid of and only needs 2 cards to be summoned out first turn. Priestess requires 4, herself and 3 others. So you have a 5/40 chance of getting Merlin or medraut, and a 9/40 chance of getting a noble arms spell. Pretty darn good odds. Compared to 1/40 and a need of 3 decreasing chances of spellbooks.

So it's not the strategy we can examine, but rather the ratios of cards, so far I'm seeing the noble knight deck as acceptable in uniqueness, but very poor in variety. Most hands you get will play out like a pure noble knight deck due to low variety.

[Eklispe]

<Snipped quote by Eklispe>
Agreed.

But on the topic of the validity of Ben's Deck, both sides have had their, uh, say.

I think it'd be best if we let this topic rest until Ammokkx arrives, before it gets out of hand or whatnot.

@Poke

Yo, look at this bruhs.

[The Grey Dust]

<Snipped quote by Poke>

Yo, look at this bruhs.

@Eklispe

I'm not saying valid or not. I'm saying it's fine, but he does have to admit the deck is one the more archetype heavy decks just by looking at the numbers. He's trying to refute me and say it isn't archetype heavy I think, but I'm not seeing proof that it isn't what I claim it is to be. Someone else said it was a competitive deck, I'm saying it probably looks that way because of how the numbers fall making it unusual for a typical structure deck.

[vancexentan]

Yes and once you summon Arthur he can be tribute sacrificed using one of my above mentioned cards. In my opening duel I had the option of going for Merlin, borz, excaliburn, borz's effect, medraut next turn and smacking Angelo around like a rag doll. Instead I opened up with Peredur and nearly go my head handed to me on a silver platter by dragunity. According to Jag he should've won that duel earlier too if not for a mistake he made in doing his plays. I don't intend to be summoning a level 5 king unless Ben is in the dire need to. He's not Andre who would summon his Archfiend Emperor of Horror with Sinister Yoshiro second turn and run over people like small children n a construction zone. Likewise once cards are banished...I'm out of luck. I can't get them back. Also if I don't get Exaliburn for one reason or another a book of moon flips Artorgius over and removes his cards. He can get magical clyinder'd, he can get negate attacked. Artorgius at his worst does 4000 which may be the life point limit here but i need literally all the noble arms equipped to Artorgius and as mentioned I don't intend on having Ben go full on ham with Artorgius and run rough shot over everyone unless they pull out a similar big play or Ben sees one coming in the near future. Ben likes tough duels and he's more than happy to just bring out medraut and borz and not xyz summon. This is fore most a ROLEPLAY and that's what I've been trying to do with Ben. Bringing up his deck at the moment will just end up with me throwing more cards into the deck than needed. Get merlin down to two or one? I put in swords of revealing light and or call of the haunted. Likewise Merlin is a glorfied ROTA that can attack you just like how U.A Signing contract is a rota that makes you play life points.

I also don't have ROTA in my own build so merlin replaces on of those. Would you prefer i throw merlin away and just get rota? All that does is prevent me from calling out laudsallyn turn one to go for a big play with medraut next turn or set up for a super laudsallyn. Likewise I don't even need artorgius. Why not just put destiny, caliburn, and exacaliburn on peredur and have a super peredur? Artorgius isn't the problem the noble arms are and without noble arms I got literally nothing to work with and i already only have one caliburn and noble arms gallatin so that leaves me with three noble arms of destiny (used to be two but since i drew one in the opening pack i got three throwing out the exchange of night and day which was literally a dead card in my deck) which becomes two possible dead cards in my hand if i already have it in the field and two excaliburn which don't re-equip. Overall I'm standing firm in saying while my deck is strong it's not as ridiculous are people are making it seem by way of all this talk about my archetype dominating my deck.

I use merlin as a seacher, maxx 'c' becomes a dead card against non-special summoners, i don't have any way of searching cards other than milling them into the grave, artorgius can be gotten over by non-targeting effects or cards that flip him once he has no excaliburn, he can be completely blocked by skill drain, and i have an disproportionate amount of noble arms destiny which don't save him completely. Dark hole him and then try to blow him up or run him over somehow and he goes to the grave then run over medraut or whoever i don't bring out.

[Ammokkx]

@The Grey Dust@vancexentan Oi. You fucks. Knock it off.

I did try telling Vance to cut down his deck size, but as I remember, he would've gone on a fucking rant about 'How it isn't a good Noble Knight' deck anymore. I didn't want to put up with that shit and just told him 'Aight, have your toys. Just not in extreme numbers.'.

To add to that, you guys are way too focused on the validity of those deck. I need to see them in action a few times before I decide to crack down on them. This RP is supposed to be fun hamming it up duels, not 'I can OTK your faster :ccccc'.

Also, @Satoshi Kyou, Thing's almost done. Just wait 'till after, then you're in the free time event.

[Ammokkx]

@Keyblade87 I agree with Xei here, edit your post so that it has a little more details in it. Nobody can really do anything with such a short post.

[The Red Seelie]

<Snipped quote by Eklispe>

Seconded.

Good deck-building is nothing before the Heart of the Cards.

@LunarStandard

3rded, Built my deck based on a custom archetype which has some good cards and terrible cards.

Still love the deck though. even if its missing quite a few cards that make Chaos properly competitively viable, Not playing for the win though so I don't really care if it is, because sometimes The heart of the cards and Rngjesus smile down and I preform the coolest move. other times I get royally wrecked (cough spellbooks).

This isn't DN or tournament really guys. Focus on story>competitive viability

[The Red Seelie]

Anyone up for a Duel against H.A.T (or any other of my decks for that matteR) (not competitively viable in the slightest) I need more pictures to add to my Sig of decks they fought XD (pick one and keep using it for scoring)

I just built the worlds stupidest deck...

ALL HAIL THE PENGUIN ARCHETYPE

[SillyPhilly]

OK

1: I'm not throwin stones I'm givin constructed criticism about your deck. If the GM says it ok then it's ok.

2: 2 Maxx "C" looks a bit too meta to me. You could easily run Upstarts/Jar of Greeds/Hope for Escapes in it's place.

3: Every deck dead hands, that doesn't make your deck exceptional.

4: Non-Targetin Non-Destruction Removal is way less common then you seem to think.

5: There's no need to get aggravated. I'm just tryin to help.

Said it before saying it again. Yall too focused on having good decks or bad decks.

@Eklispe

This is why I brought it up. The deck looks too constructed to me and not enough "structure decky".

But if the GM has okayed it then I guess it's ok.

So, can I just jump in anywhere?

EDIT: Oh wow I missed a whole discussion. Sorry to make such a big deal about it ;>.<

It's when Artorgius comes out with his giant fist and punches you in the face is when you need to worry about things. If things have gone completely right that means he has a bunch of equips and can't be destroyed or targeted like my first duel. If things go horribly wrong you got a 2(2/0)00 beater who can't pop anything in the case of the level four or is only good for holding your ground for a turn with two noble arms at his disposal. Lava Golemn, level 5-8 with monarchs stormforth, destiny hero plasma (without king having excaliburn), and volcanic queen can completely circumvent artorgius and just remove him as a none factor and if there are no other noble knights i just spent a good chunk of my deck and strategy pulling out a field with little to no defense and i need to get lucky and either pull last chapter or another medraut and hope i have a queen in my grave to bring out noble knight level 4.

Likewise he can be stepped on. U.A's are a perfect example of that. Stadium, midfielder, U.A Dreadnaught dunker, U.A Power Jersey 4000 atk, punch artorgius in the face, blow up his excaliburn, swap out for perfect ace, discard card next turn if he tries to activate his effect. If you're even luckier use U.A Penalty Box to just remove him from play for two turns burying all of the noble arms and he comes back without material or noble arms.

@vancexentan

Ok, you're first point lists 4 specific cards that directly counter Artorigus directly. Problem is that outside of maybe Stormforth these are cards that see little use and are not among the other decks in the RP.

Your second point is kinda moot because I took out Powered Jersey and a few other Archetype cards to make my deck less Archetype focused. Keep in mind in the original build I was only running 1 of everything save for Midfielder.

To me, 3 Merlin looks ridiculous, as does the two of everything in your Extra Deck. I've already said what I needed to say about Maxx "C".

[Ammokkx]

So, can I just jump in anywhere?

@SillyPhilly

Might be best to just wait a little bit since the first free time event starts right after the duel and it's nearly done, but yeah jump in whenever.

[The Red Seelie]

I keep building random decks For no reason...

must be my card making addiction playing up, but now its orientated to making gimmick decks :P

Edit: anyone up for a DN match xD

[Satoshi Kyou]

@1Charak2hop on. i'll gladly accept your challenge but i'll build a deck from scratch

(because i got none)

[The Red Seelie]

@SillyPhilly

Could your IC post not have a little more detail like how the hell they even got their what they did etc? Seemed kinda short.

[Satoshi Kyou]

and another spot stolen from Hayato... he was going jump off while trying to get rid of Hayate and land next to him it was going to be flashy

well i guess that idea is out of the window. back to the drawing board (and he was going to be there because he knew people would leave him alone but nevermind he is ultra popular now all the sudden)

took me an entire day of planning to get to this conclusion!

WHY ARE MY POSTS SO SLOW