[OOC] Black Mountain Tournament: Iolanthe vs Sigurd

[MelonHead]

That's the issue then, your character's shield is attached to her forearm, if you go through the motion of drawing a sword you see that it would be impossible to do that without your shield being moved out of position.

Unless she's wearing her sheath around her stomach, which would be highly irregular. Only Samurai spring to mind in wearing their sheaths in such a way that they aren't drawn from the waist.

However, despite me personally finding your description of disguising drawing the sword impossible, I went with it. Sigurd only exploited that specific opening on side-stepping, before that he intended to strike at her right side.

[Chimera]

The punching motion of drawing her sword from the front of her waist, (still protecting her chest, I just tested this with my own shield and sheathed sword.) whilst thrusting her shield in front of Sigurd's sword is simple. Gladius are short-swords meant for extremely close quarters combat. She'd angle the sheath sideways during the motion. And I must repeat... her left shoulder was facing Sigurd, her right shoulder was not. Her stance shifted. Even if the shield had been turned sideways, it would still have been facing Sigurd before he dodged, and could compensate with ease.

Edit: Hoplons are also built rounded on a groove that allows some space on the inside, which is why I chose them for a character who wields swords and shields on the same arm.

[Drifting Pollen]

So, as I mentioned above, it's a question of position versus energy. Melon is using "pushed" to describe the hit, while Chimera is using "struck."

Well, you both make good points. Here's what I think:

- Sigurd aimed for Iolanthe's heart (her left side) while she reached for her sword, which was on her left hip. Given the size of her shield (based on the picture provided), she wouldn't have to move it far to make the block. She arguably should have stepped or leaned back while performing this action, but IMO her shield could at least get there in time. Drawing her sword can be done pretty easily from this position, try it yourself (requires a little wrist-trickery, but nothing unnatural).

- So, the real issue is whether the sword gets pushed/struck far enough. It was made clear that the edge of the shield struck the side of the blade, so it's basically side > side contact. Chimera wrote Iolanthe's action as a strike, so this wouldn't be a shove- she was aiming for a hard impact.

- Melon is right on one count: there's no way Iolanthe would have been able to push his blade all the way across her body before his strike landed. However, I doubt that was her real aim. Moving the sword itself is one thing, but the wrist and arm are far more difficult to keep still, especially when making a stabbing motion. When the blade is slammed, the angle of the wrist (and possibly the arm) is shaken, and the point goes swinging diagonally upwards and to Sigurd's left. As Melon said, the sword isn't going to rebound backwards- but it will rebound to the side, because the effect is similar to his sword being struck from the side by a hammer. It's hard to keep a thrust steady against such an impact, and a longsword would be difficult to redirect to another location (like the lung). Indeed, a less experienced warrior would have difficulty keeping hold of it.

Essentially, it functions. Sigurd's sword would be deflected, though it would be more off to one side and upwards than back towards him (beating away a stab is simple enough, but pushing the blade back is much harder). The point would end up somewhere around Iolanthe's right shoulder, either moving over it or glancing off the pauldron-shield. The hilt of the blade, however, would remain more or less where it was.

However, I will note that although the move would work, that does not make it a good move. I can see some pretty nasty follow-ups that Sigurd might use.

That make sense to the both of you?

[Chimera]

@Drifting Pollen I am fine with this outcome.

[MelonHead]

That's fine, although a lot of my point was based on Sigurd's prior movement. If they were fighting face to face a strike to the side of the sword would be highly effective, but at a diagnol more of the thrusts forward power would negate the incoming pressure.

Also, we are talking about a three foot longsword. Somewhere along the line the distances probably got messed up, but Sigurd's arm is by no means fully extended. It wouldn't need to be.

[MelonHead]

Anyway, I'm going to go think some more. It's always when I rush posts like the last one that I make less effective moves then I could of.

[Chimera]

I'd rather be done with the argument and continue fighting, rather than dwell on it. I too made a mistake whilst rushing, had Iolanthe continued to pivot her right leg backwards, she'd have a lot more room to dish out way more damage.

[MelonHead]

To clarify, is Chimera going to edit to reflect the blade hitting the right side? (with whatever damage or non-damage that may entail)

I ask because I'd like to see exactly what I'm working with before I start thinking about what to do next.

[Chimera]

Do you want me to? You needn't talk about me as if directing the question to someone else.

I figured you'd want to choose how far the blade was redirected. The way I enjoy a combat roleplay, someone will state their attack and assume certain options and results within it, and the opponent is always able to choose one of those, or pick their own to surprise the reader. As long as it is within the grace of logic. That's what I did, and I'd have felt no anger or disapproval if you wrote Sigurd's response as a dodge, and accepting no damage from his sword in the first place. Although I wrote there was a chance it'd strike him back, that's to enthrall whoever reads the fight. "Oh no, is Sigurd going to be his own demise!" They might think, before you choose to prove them wrong.

[Drifting Pollen]

Everyone makes mistakes in these things, that's why physical combat is so tricky.

@Chimera Arguments are just part of the fun, in a sense. As long as nobody gets salty, they can be quite informative and interesting in themselves... on the other hand, I would very much like to see more of the fight (*grabs popcorn*).

@MelonHead I did take the angle and distance of the attack into consideration when I was writing my post earlier. The result is technically pretty uncertain, and I still could be wrong... I just gave what I believed to be most likely, given the situation.

You two both know your stuff, though. I kinda want to fight you now :P Maybe sometime down the road...

[MelonHead]

Sorry, I was asking Drifting Pollen as to the effect their ruling had. Obviously as you had wrote that the blade was bounced away, where-as Pollen has ruled it probably would have hit the right side, there's a disparity there.

Also I can sympathise, this is one of those annoying situations with (as far as I can tell) no historical precedent. I haven't seen it written anywhere if parrying with a shield edge is a good idea (though I have read that parrying into one's body is a bad idea, because of the chance of the sword point simply being deflected into some other vital part of the body.) So judging what would happen if the technique was perfectly pulled off is difficult.

Mind clarifying my question though? I'm unsure if you made the ruling that the sword-point was going to react differently so an edit is required or not.

[Drifting Pollen]

Sorry, I was asking Drifting Pollen as to the effect their ruling had. Obviously as you had wrote that the blade was bounced away, where-as Pollen has ruled it probably would have hit the right side, there's a disparity there.

@MelonHead

If you wanted to have it bounced back like Chimera said... I guess I wouldn't mind? Or you could just have it move where I said, and then have Sigurd pull it back a little.

Chimera doesn't necessarily have to edit, since the consequences of an attack are often described in two ways during fights ("I do this with my sword!" "You try, but I do this and that happens!") Whatever works best for you two. By default, Sigurd would still have the hilt at around chest-level, but the point would have been knocked to about shoulder-level and to his left, putting it in the environs of Iolanthe's right shoulder. However, if something else occurred to redirect it before it reached that point (it'd have to be fast), then it could in theory end up somewhere else.

[MelonHead]

I'm going with your ruling, which is why I'm asking if Chimera needs to make an edit to reflect the sword not rebounding away like they said, but being diverted to the right side of their character. My attack was launched in the last post, so it's up to Chimera to detail what happens with the sword. Sigurd can't realistically change his mind and do something different so it's out of my hands.

[Chimera]

In other words you want me to make the edit. It shouldn't be too hard to ask that, hun. Give me a moment, I'll make things easier for you, and edit my post.

Edit: The paragraph in which detailed where Sigurd's sword may relocate has been changed.

[MelonHead]

In other words you want me to make the edit. It shouldn't be too hard to ask that, hun. Give me a moment, I'll make things easier for you, and edit my post.

@Chimera

Well, I was a little unsure how Pollen wanted to do things. I was starting to wonder if it was up to me to decide how the sword landed rather than Sigurd's intent. I'm not sure you'd want your opponent describing the damage of their own attacks. It was more a query around the technicalities of the tournament rather than anything to do with the fight. I'm just rolling with T1 Eden and its rules, the only time your opponent decides the damage (or rather, describes the physical hit) of their own attack is for certain punishments like missing deadlines and shit.

Regardless, cheers m8.

One final thing, how close would you say our characters are to eachother at this point? As often happens in the heat of the moment we've been a little hazy with direct measurements, so it would be good to agree on a rough distance between them now. Personally, I'd say body to body, four feet at most.

[Chimera]

Three to four feet seems reasonable. Had Iolanthe landed the shield bash, the extent of her arm would've been roughly three feet worth of distance between them, however both attacks were fended off. Four feet works fine.

[MelonHead]

How tall is Iolanthe?

[Chimera]

I thought I added that to her appearance section?

/Goes back to check/

Ah, I did. Iolanthe is 5'10".

[MelonHead]

Yeah I was expecting to see it in that format rather than five foot ten inches, probably why I missed it in the middle of the description.

[Chimera]

Another post rushed, the minute I saw another opening. Hopefully there are no issues this time... but since it could be a fight-ending strike, I'm not sure...

On another note, my scanner didn't properly render the outlines of Iolanthe's bracers, which she does wear on both of her forearms, they're also listed in her equipment section. It wasn't an important issue, however, because I didn't plan on using them as a last resort defence anyways... and I figure Sigurd is strong enough to still chop off the wrist or cut through sections of said bracers with a strong enough slash.