Beloss

Fate/ Transcendent Paradigm (A Fate/GO Based RP)

@KoL

I really, really would like to see Dom Quixote as a Rider, even if he's clearly a fictional character.

Don Quixote would be pretty awesome. I am guessing that he would have shit stats and ability's, but some sort of Reality Marble which shows his vision of the world and totally turns the tables on this.

Nope, Merlin is alive, he can't have a double no matter how hard you try to make it be.

Okay, this I think is where our divide is. You seem to think that I am insisting that similar servants be doubles to one another. Myrddin Wyllt would be his own existence, not a double, just as Sigurd is his own existence as well but that would not erase their similarity's to Merlin and Siegfried. Sigurd has a lot of similarity to Achilles for example, but their existences do not affect one another.

Bottom line of my arguments. Don't try to turn Fate into a literature class.

I dont know what to make of this at all. How does saying that Servants would recognize similarity's in one another do this?

Fate/ Transcendent Paradigm (A Fate/GO Based RP)

@KoL

I meant in as with the Count of Saint Germain, who was said to be Nicholas Flamel (or his wife), among various other people. This open a precedent on Typemoon lore for him to be another individual, not just similarities in legends.

So you see that the similaritys are there? Do you not think they would notice these similarity if they met? I presented this earlier, but for example: if Merlin met Myrddin Wyllt I would assume you would concede that they would notice how similar they were?

Fate/ Transcendent Paradigm (A Fate/GO Based RP)

@KoL

HSs itself can be related to some degree (as certain legends imply this) but if the legends itself don't mention it, it shouldn't work in world.

You seem to be inventing this rule. People in general recognize patterns very quickly. I dont see why a Heroic Spirit would not be able to sense such similarity, especially when, as you said certain legends imply it.

If its noted as something that exists for certain legends then a similar trend should be observed in all others when the correct conditions appear. Why would it randomly happen in one case but then not another?

I dont see what being a real vs fictional character has to do with relations between legends. People note such connections in real life all the time, especially between historic figures who grew up under certain circumstances, or were driven by similar causes.

@VitaVitaAR All heroic Spirits so far are implied to have been real people within the Fate world aside from a few notable exceptions. Again I dont see what this has to do with anything I have proposed.

Fate/ Transcendent Paradigm (A Fate/GO Based RP)

@AtomicNut I'm still waiting for a reply from Atlanta

Fate/ Transcendent Paradigm (A Fate/GO Based RP)

@KoL

And here was I being a fool all this time and thinking that it was because King Arthur was a literate person (given that he was a noble) that had a Celtic Druid older than dirt as teacher and thereby was bound to know, y'kow? Legends from the very archipelago she was born in...

Because it's not like Ireland is so very far from Corwall and the rest of the Brittish islands.

Well, such is life. You always learn new things everyday.

Cuchulain and Diarmuid also recognize Arthur, Diarmuid even saying that he has anticipated facing her. Their legends predate Arthur's by some time, they know of her because of the information that the grail has given them. While its possible that Arthur knew of both of them from life due to Merlins teachings even if she had never learned she would know now, because of the general knowledge that they receive from the grail.

Fate/ Transcendent Paradigm (A Fate/GO Based RP)

@KoL yeah it probably wont go very well, which is why I am interested in this. The meeting between the two could be very interesting I think, especially with their shared obsession and hatred of their own family's.

@VitaVitaAR Yes the the world thinks that Mordred is a man no? The same way they think that Arthuria is a man.

Right, but Saber was able to easily pick out Diarmuid and was able to slowly recognize Lancelot even under layers of deceptive magics. For a Servant who has no relation to her it would almost certainly be a slower process.

For people not being prototypes of each other you are making that rule up out of nothing. Sigurd is a prototype of Siegfried, this we know for sure, I don't see what evidence you have for saying that the countless other legends that influenced neighboring legends dont also share connections to some degree.

I never said that they would think they were the same people. You just agreed with me there on your last line. I was never talking about reincarnation, which does not exist for Servants in the first place. Heroic Spirits are actually preserved as unique existences within throne of heroes, they are isolated from the cycle of reincarnation that everyone else goes through. That they would recognize their lives contained identical mythical themes would be the relationship I am taking about.

Fate/ Transcendent Paradigm (A Fate/GO Based RP)

@VitaVitaAR I dont think you understand. Mordred's specific origins within her legend dont matter. People within the Fate universe think that Mordred and Arturia are both male, their legend is essential similar to how it is in our world (with a few exceptions, Arthur never conquering Italy and various other details being different)

I dont know where you are getting that its not like I describe it. Arturia knows who Diarmuid and Cuchulain are, and they her, even though that should technically be impossible. It is information that the grail has given her directly similar to how she knows modern language and most customs. Sigfreid for example knows that Sigurd exists because they are very closely related legends, basically being different versions of each other. Saber does not know who Sasaki Kojiro is because his legends does not relate to her at all and is in a complexity different cultural sphere.

When you have two legends that are geographically very close, take place at nearly the same time, and have dozens of similaritys and identical themes to eachother its pretty obvious that the two legends are related to and influence one another, just like the swords Gram and Calburn are.

I dont see where you are making the distinction where you are willing to admit that the swords are related prototypes of each other, but the people who's legends are even more similar are not? If Merlin was summoned and Myrddin Wyllt was also summoned they would quickly recognize eachother as being related, even though they are from different legends. Same thing here is what I am suggesting.

Fate/ Transcendent Paradigm (A Fate/GO Based RP)

@Rin Is that a yes or a no? If he notices but does not care that will still affect the story.

@VitaVitaAR I don't see why there would be no literal connection, especially when such relationships between Noble Phantasms are noted and literal. Gram being closely related to Caliburn for example, and Gilgamesh's Merodach being the ancestor of both. Relations between legends tend to be very real in the Fate series, especially when the Servants know magical know about most other legends, starting with those most closely related to their own. Arturia recognizing Cuchulain but not Kojiro for example.

@KoL I agree, I think its more likely for spirits such as Mordred and Sinfjotli to be at odds with one another. I dont think it would be seen as in insult per say, but more as something like confronting your own clone who wants to replace you. Or like a brother who is threatening your inheritance.

Fate/ Transcendent Paradigm (A Fate/GO Based RP)

@KoL True, many myths are related to each other on some level, but the Volsung Saga and the Arthurian myths especially so. If most myths are say, distant cousins then Volsung and Arthur would be brothers. Professors of the subject have compiled quite a body of work comparing the two.

Fate/ Transcendent Paradigm (A Fate/GO Based RP)

@VitaVitaAR Ah. He is vaguely aware of the possibility of backfire, as Magi tend to be since they are a schemy bunch, but yeah, Walgrave is serious underestimating Servants and the bad things that tend to come from fucking with them. He is used to be most dangerous things in the world being Dead Apostles and various minor Spirits. Hes also kinda racist.