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[OOC] World in Revolution: 1861 Page 159

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Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by salamimike
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If anyone wants to read about some misconceptions ..
http://www.cracked.com/article_20306_5-myths-about-revolutionary-war-everyone-believes.html
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Pepperm1nts
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Pasta Sentient said
So...I actually would say that the actions of the Founding Fathers were not in line with what Jesus taught at all. But that's just my opinion...


A lot of people are often afraid to say it, or they think of it as unimaginable, but... The Founding Fathers were human beings. They made mistakes. They had flaws. Some of them were hypocrites. What's on the constitution is, for the most part great, but not divine law. Nor is it undeniably correct when it comes to every matter, especially some of the things we face in modern times that the found fathers couldn't have possibly imagined we'd ever have to deal with.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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Dedonus said
Well, the Founding Fathers' religious views were quite different from the type of Christian you are talking about.


Every single one of the founding fathers was a WASP. That doesn't necessarily have any direct baring on what they intended for the United States to become, but it is the objective truth of the matter.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Pasta Sentient
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The Nexerus said
I don't think Israel under the Roman Empire is at all comparable to the Thirteen Colonies under Great Britain.


Israel was land under the control of the Roman Empire. They detested their rulers. They had no ability to vote in Rome's senate unless they went out to gain Roman citizenship.

It's not the same definitely. But there are similarities to be found.

@Dedonus I agree. That's why it irritates me.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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^ Too many differences.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Byrd Man
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Pepperm1nts said
A lot of people are often afraid to say it, or think of it as unimaginable, but... The Founding Fathers were human beings. They made mistakes. They had flaws. Some of them were hypocrites. What's on the constitution is, for the most part great, but not divine law. Nor is it undeniably correct when it comes to every matter, especially some of the things we face in modern times that the found fathers couldn't have possibly imagined we'd ever have to deal with.


[2]

Plus they left it vague for future generations. It's obvious when you read the part about the President, when they pretty just said "the president should do what George Washington did during the war" No way they could see the huge national government the President would have to be the executive of. Plus, their original stipulations of congressional district expansion would mean that the House would be like 5,000 members by now.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Dedonus
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Nevermind. Don't want to get into a religious debate.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Pasta Sentient
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The Nexerus said
^ Too many differences.


Enough similarities for my point to made.

@Byrd Man, Yup. Like, I firmly believe in right and wrong and it is the responsibility of the American people to vote for representatives who will put those things of right/wrong into law; but the constitution itself is not a method of determining right or wrong. It's a method of government.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Byrd Man
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Before it get into a religion debate in here, surprise George Washington!



Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by salamimike
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Why is the constitution such a big deal?
Shouldn't laws be made according to the modern day or am I missing something?
Isn't it like if we still quoted the Magna Carta in the UK.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Byrd Man
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solamelike said
Why is the constitution such a big deal?Shouldn't laws be made according to the modern day or am I missing something?Isn't it like if we still quoted the Magna Carta in the UK.


The constitution is the foundation of our government, like the UK's constitution deciding the roles of the monarchy and parliament. It's the basis that your government build off of.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Pasta Sentient
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I'm stopping the instant it goes into religion lol. That's something that will never end well in this medium. Here's a badass pic of George Washington...

Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Dedonus
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solamelike said
Why is the constitution such a big deal?Shouldn't laws be made according to the modern day or am I missing something?Isn't it like if we still quoted the Magna Carta in the UK.


Because it basically sets out the rules about what you can and cannot do. Checks and balances between legislative, executive, and judicial and also between federal, state, and local governments.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Dedonus
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So, Byrd, is Lincoln hunting any vampires lately? :D
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by salamimike
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Byrd Man said
The constitution is the foundation of our government, like the UK's constitution deciding the roles of the monarchy and parliament. It's the basis that your government build off of.


Ok you need a starting point but surely you build off it according to modern politics and society?
For instance the second amendment, why is everyone so pissy in just updating it. Maybe make it easier to understand and more specific.
Or do they protest because they prefer it to be vague?
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Pasta Sentient
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Ronald Reagan riding a Velociraptor.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Dedonus
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solamelike said
Ok you need a starting point but surely you build off it according to modern politics and society?For instance the second amendment, why is everyone so pissy in just updating it. Maybe make it easier to understand and more specific. Or do they protest because they prefer it to be vague?


I doubt an amendment could be made, especially with lobbying from the NRA.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Pasta Sentient
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solamelike said
Ok you need a starting point but surely you build off it according to modern politics and society?For instance the second amendment, why is everyone so pissy in just updating it. Maybe make it easier to understand and more specific. Or do they protest because they prefer it to be vague?


My understanding of it is...both sides are too evenly matched on certain issues that they cannot move forward. They might both agree that something needs to be changed, but because they disagree on how it should be changed...nothing changes.

Edit: Also in regards to the second amendment...a lot of Americans are very distrustful of our government. The argument is...if they take our guns away what power do we have to stop them from doing what they want. It hearkens back to the American thought process found in the Declaration of Independence...
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by The Nexerus
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solamelike said Or do they protest because they prefer it to be vague?


Any change to the Second Amendment would inevitably make it more restrictive.
Hidden 10 yrs ago Post by Byrd Man
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solamelike said
Ok you need a starting point but surely you build off it according to modern politics and society?For instance the second amendment, why is everyone so pissy in just updating it. Maybe make it easier to understand and more specific. Or do they protest because they prefer it to be vague?


Guns are ingrained in the US culture, for better or worse. The Second Amendment, like the Third one that prohibited soldier quartering in US, was done to prevent the UK from coming back to finish the US off. The idea of a militia and citizen soldiers is one that a lot of Americans strongly identify with. I think a lot of citizens, and maybe even the founders, take the Second Amendment as the citizen's check on the government. A government is less likely to force a heavily armed citizenry into doing something they view as being tyrannical.
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