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Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Freeshooter92
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Psychomancy is the most powerful blood OFFENSIVELY, and DEFENSIVELY. Why? A, it has a 100% success rate. A fireball can miss, a lightning bolt can hit something else, something can simply be ineffective. Psychomancy? It always achieves the desired effect. But, surely there's a counter? Supposedly, the Ward system. Here's the problem with how wards work: One, only mages can get them, and two, they require specialized training, from a psychomancer. So, who has the strongest wards? Psychomancers. The only proper counter to it is itself.

There is the biggest problem; wards. The system allows the Psychomancer to get away with far too much with complete impunity as it stands. So, I propose that wards simply become an extra layer of defense available to mages associated with training, but a strong will and active (Active as in 'that guy's trying to get in my head, I can't let him') concentration can provide some resistance to the lower levels of Psychomancy. This might make it seem like the psychomancer cannot do as much, but it simply means they have to work for their power, same as anyone else. Is it unfair that a Pyromancer must lead his target, that an offensive vitamancer must close to touch range, or that a Runecrafter must spend hours not jut learning to make a rune, but creating it as well? No. And Psychomancers should just be able to say 'I do this' and be done with it.


These are the proposed changes to Psychomancy I was speaking with Rtron about.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by EliteCommander
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I find wards to be a sufficient defense. They don't detract greatly from training, and anyone can learn to have them.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Freeshooter92
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Wrong. Nonmages can't get them.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by EliteCommander
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also, non psychomancers can have just as good of wards as psychomancers.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Freeshooter92
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also, non psychomancers can have just as good of wards as psychomancers.


They are specifically said to have the strongest wards.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Freeshooter92
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Psychomancy just isn't fair. The only thing that resists it is specialized schooling (and usually not even then), There's no travel time, no casting time. You can read one's thoughts and instantly know every move they plan to make, you can use illusions to make them slip up and kill them with ease, you can paralyze them, control them, and at the same time a pyromancer can toss a few fireballs that will probably miss/get blocked anyway.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Fallenreaper
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Also, folks, don't forget but I also put the limitations (page or two back) as well which should be something to be taken into account. In addition, keep the tone reasonable, This is a Reminder as I'm currently a bit busy working on another post for another rp. Rtron and Lucius will be watching for any 'heated' tones from anyone so they decide to drop the subject, no fighting about it, kay? I would also like to know if those Limitations are reasonable.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Freeshooter92
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Also, folks, don't forget but I also put the limitations (page or two back) as well which should be something to be taken into account. In addition, keep the tone reasonable, This is a Reminder as I'm currently a bit busy working on another post for another rp. Rtron and Lucius will be watching for any 'heated' tones from anyone so they decide to drop the subject, no fighting about it, kay? I would also like to know if those Limitations are reasonable.


They're a good 'band-aid' fix for now, but I'll work to see if I can't have them seamlessly integrated.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rtron
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Psychomancy just isn't fair. The only thing that resists it is specialized schooling (and usually not even then), There's no travel time, no casting time. You can read one's thoughts and instantly know every move they plan to make, you can use illusions to make them slip up and kill them with ease, you can paralyze them, control them, and at the same time a pyromancer can toss a few fireballs that will probably miss/get blocked anyway.


Psychomancy could do with some more defenses against it, yes. But non-mages can use and learn wards.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Freeshooter92
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Currently it says they cannot.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Freeshooter92
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Anyway, lets talk about other bloods for a while. Herbamancy is in the most dire need of love right now.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by cqbexpt
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Something I'm actually keen on doing is spliting the Demonmancy school into two disciplines and having herbamancy and vitamancy cannibalize Noxomancy. If you moved necromancy into the Lues School and Obligatio was purely two opposite things within what now fall under demonmancy would be best. Split it up into the people that are eventually going to fall and become demons and the people who are basically demon hunters and use aspects of the Inferno that are not directly related to summoning demons. At the beginning they would start out the same obviously but which school you were doing would become obvious after you pass into the Adept rank. This way you could just balance the two against each other and have sufficiently rearranged enough power from the main tree to keep the other mage blood competitive.

Note: Lucius has been talking about something similar for awhile atleast in regards to demonmancy.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rtron
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Something I'm actually keen on doing is spliting the Demonmancy school into two disciplines and having herbamancy and vitamancy cannibalize Noxomancy.


Noxomancy is directly connected to the Nox (a completely seperate plane of existence. It's where the shadow transportation and all that comes from.) Attaching it to either of them wouldn't fit well, neh?

Necromancy and Noxomancy can both stay where they are (albeit tweaked) and we can separate Demonomancy into two disciplines. Demonomancy would just have more details.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Lucius Cypher
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For Inferno Magics I'll admit that I kept them as an old hold over from the previous Blood Act under Warden's rule. They were basically suppose to symbolize how a demonic essence can corrupt everything, even the archanite itself. But as CQBexpt said, removing Inferno Magics will change Demonomancy, at least at a master level. After all one cannot actually access Inferno Magic without the aid of a Demon, and one cannot master it without Falling, a risky price to pay to master the magic of demons. That being said, I can concede that Inferno Magics is essentially "Demon Archanite" and will have much, much more power if one was actually in the Inferno. Because then you can manipulate everything in there.

So Inferno Magic needs revamping, and I'll be sure to discuss it with Fallen, Rtron, and anyone else who is concerned about using Demonomancy. That means you CQBexpt.

As for Herbmancy I've actually did a revision of it some time ago, I'm not sure if Fallen had posted the revised version. Here it is for those curious.

For Psychomancy, I will make this much clear: The intent of Psychomancy, and indeed the intent all Mage Bloods should do (But Psychomancy does better at unfortunately), is to be an unconventional offense, while at the same time lacking any hard defense against other magics aside from "Getting out of the way". And Psychomancy does nothing to provide additional mobility unlike say, Geomancy (Tunneling) or Aeromancy (Flying). While there is no "Ultimate defense" against all magics, one could see how perhaps a strong earthen barrier would at least be able to repel most attacks. But Psychomancy isn't a physical attack, and so a wall of stone would do nothing to it aside from block one's field of view, which at least removes the sight requirement.

Psychomancy lack any direct damage dealing at the beginning compared to some magics, as even Herbamancy could manipulate plants into strangling you. At the beginning Psychomancy can only fool and trick you, and the act of harming either comes from your misdirection or your active involvement. But at the end of Mastery, Psychomancy indeed does do a lot of damage, and generally without even making physical contact (Because Psychomancy never does physical contact). More so since unlike say, Pyromancy or even Demonomancy, one can't shrug off Psychomancy by being physically stronger.

Now Wards can indeed be picked up by those without Psychomancy, even nonmages. The only trouble is that they are not naturally occurring defenses except by those who have to deal with Psychomancy. Which yes, typically means psychomancers themselves. Now Free I understand that you're concerned that this essentially means that unless one is an actual psychomancer, there isn't a different way to counter or resist the effects of psychomancy. It gives Psychomancer the ultimate offense since no other magic would have any reason to develop wards except to counter Psychomancy. Fallen's suggestions at least provide some caveats: A psychomancer needs line of sight, and there's a reason why I wrote a large section for Wide and Focused concentrations. Wide is more "Weak AoE" while Focus is "Single-Hit Nuke".

But another issue with psychomancy is this: What other sort of defenses do you think would make sense against a Psychomancer? How does one measure "Will Power", if that's going to be a factor? What sort of materials should be naturally resistant against a Psychomancer's attack, and what prevents this same material from making one immune? I offered tin foil hats, and as silly as it sounds, they at least drop a hint of Psychic deflecting materials.

But perhaps you're asking for less material things. Again, what would you suggest being a viable, believable source of defense against Psychomancy? As it stands, it's not until at higher levels that one could Dominate the minds of other into controlling them directly, and tricking the enemy into say, running off a cliff or attacking their friend is pretty much the only way Psychomancy gets anything done without requiring the mage to do it themselves.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Fallenreaper
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<Snipped quote by Fallenreaper>

They're a good 'band-aid' fix for now, but I'll work to see if I can't have them seamlessly integrated.


Keep in mind, Free, one of the main aspects of blood magic is trust. I don't want to over limit players but I also don't want to give free reins. Both aspects can kill balance and like Elite said, overbalance can hurt the effectiveness of a Player's magic. It can also make them feel like we don't Trust them to be sensible or want to 'script' them into a fix set of actions for a spell, both aspects are very negative to a Player's confidence as I'm sure you know.

In addition, and this is to all Players, while we've asked your suggestions and thoughts, we might not be able to incorporate them all. In end, we will pick and chose ideas/thoughts/suggestions based on how we, as GMs, believe it will best suit the RP. Either way, we thank you for the feed back.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Lucius Cypher
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Also, I can't say I particularly advocate merging any two bloods currently. All mage bloods do share some concepts and similar functions even across different magebloods, but actually merging them across bloodlines will require us to rebuild Blood from it's magical foundations, which means a lot of retcons. I do think they need more specific work however, in order to give each variant unique flavor and abilities that can't be copied by other mage bloods (Which is also why Inferno Magic needs revision since it is capable of bastardizing at least elemental mage bloods).
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Fallenreaper
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Also, I can't say I particularly advocate merging any two bloods currently. All mage bloods do share some concepts and similar functions even across different magebloods, but actually merging them across bloodlines will require us to rebuild Blood from it's magical foundations, which means a lot of retcons. I do think they need more specific work however, in order to give each variant unique flavor and abilities that can't be copied by other mage bloods (Which is also why Inferno Magic needs revision since it is capable of bastardizing at least elemental mage bloods).


I'm not too thrilled about that myself. Namely as we talked about something similar, which is the end results and how each blood can achieve them in different ways. Take Electromancy and Pyromancy. They both can fry you but the way they do is different, Electromancy uses electricity to basically nuke you while Pyromancy literally burns. Both result in burnt meat, but not in the same fashion.

Another example is the insect control for psychomancy and herbamancy. They can manipulate insects in different ways through either mind or scent, causing them to attack enemies in similar ways or follow a set of brain patterns based on instinct. Either way, your foes feel the sting of those little beasties.

Final example, Vitamancy and Noxomancy. Both can weaken the body, Vitamancy by starving the body of needed nutrient and forcing it to reject them. Noxomancy by slowly rotting the body from the inside out or causing sickness to attack key aspects of the target's body. Again, similar effect but different ways to get it. These aren't the only bloods that does this but these illustrate my point that bloods can technically mingle when it comes to getting a set goal/outcome if you're creative and reasonable with it. Mainly reason realism does play a bit of a part in these magics.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by EliteCommander
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I don't see electromancy and pyromancy as being too similar, as kinetic energy and electromagnetism are entirely different. If you start thinking about the potential applications of electromagnetism, I'm sure you can think of plenty of ways to differentiate it.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Fallenreaper
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I don't see electromancy and pyromancy as being too similar, as kinetic energy and electromagnetism are entirely different. If you start thinking about the potential applications of electromagnetism, I'm sure you can think of plenty of ways to differentiate it.


Point was, Elite: You can gain similar results from two different bloods. I never said how close the effects would be but there has been cases, lightning for example, which is an aspect of electromancy, causing burns. I'm mainly stating if you want to achieve a key effect, but don't have the blood, get creative and do the research. See if your element can possibly achieve those effects and how.

These are the lightning references I'm talking about.

Site reference one
Example 2
Example 3

Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Freeshooter92
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For Inferno Magics I'll admit that I kept them as an old hold over from the previous Blood Act under Warden's rule. They were basically suppose to symbolize how a demonic essence can corrupt everything, even the archanite itself. But as CQBexpt said, removing Inferno Magics will change Demonomancy, at least at a master level. After all one cannot actually access Inferno Magic without the aid of a Demon, and one cannot master it without Falling, a risky price to pay to master the magic of demons. That being said, I can concede that Inferno Magics is essentially "Demon Archanite" and will have much, much more power if one was actually in the Inferno. Because then you can manipulate everything in there.

So Inferno Magic needs revamping, and I'll be sure to discuss it with Fallen, Rtron, and anyone else who is concerned about using Demonomancy. That means you CQBexpt.

As for Herbmancy I've actually did a revision of it some time ago, I'm not sure if Fallen had posted the revised version. Here it is for those curious.

For Psychomancy, I will make this much clear: The intent of Psychomancy, and indeed the intent all Mage Bloods should do (But Psychomancy does better at unfortunately), is to be an unconventional offense, while at the same time lacking any hard defense against other magics aside from "Getting out of the way". And Psychomancy does nothing to provide additional mobility unlike say, Geomancy (Tunneling) or Aeromancy (Flying). While there is no "Ultimate defense" against all magics, one could see how perhaps a strong earthen barrier would at least be able to repel most attacks. But Psychomancy isn't a physical attack, and so a wall of stone would do nothing to it aside from block one's field of view, which at least removes the sight requirement.

Psychomancy lack any direct damage dealing at the beginning compared to some magics, as even Herbamancy could manipulate plants into strangling you. At the beginning Psychomancy can only fool and trick you, and the act of harming either comes from your misdirection or your active involvement. But at the end of Mastery, Psychomancy indeed does do a lot of damage, and generally without even making physical contact (Because Psychomancy never does physical contact). More so since unlike say, Pyromancy or even Demonomancy, one can't shrug off Psychomancy by being physically stronger.

Now Wards can indeed be picked up by those without Psychomancy, even nonmages. The only trouble is that they are not naturally occurring defenses except by those who have to deal with Psychomancy. Which yes, typically means psychomancers themselves. Now Free I understand that you're concerned that this essentially means that unless one is an actual psychomancer, there isn't a different way to counter or resist the effects of psychomancy. It gives Psychomancer the ultimate offense since no other magic would have any reason to develop wards except to counter Psychomancy. Fallen's suggestions at least provide some caveats: A psychomancer needs line of sight, and there's a reason why I wrote a large section for Wide and Focused concentrations. Wide is more "Weak AoE" while Focus is "Single-Hit Nuke".

But another issue with psychomancy is this: What other sort of defenses do you think would make sense against a Psychomancer? How does one measure "Will Power", if that's going to be a factor? What sort of materials should be naturally resistant against a Psychomancer's attack, and what prevents this same material from making one immune? I offered tin foil hats, and as silly as it sounds, they at least drop a hint of Psychic deflecting materials.

But perhaps you're asking for less material things. Again, what would you suggest being a viable, believable source of defense against Psychomancy? As it stands, it's not until at higher levels that one could Dominate the minds of other into controlling them directly, and tricking the enemy into say, running off a cliff or attacking their friend is pretty much the only way Psychomancy gets anything done without requiring the mage to do it themselves.


There is a much bigger problem that you're overlooking here. The idea that Psychomancy does 'less damage' is only technically accurate. Sure, psychomancy doesn't actually do any direct damage, but that's not the issue. Psychomancy wrecks people on a completely different level, because it takes them out of the fight. Let's say I trick the guy into thinking I'm somewhere else, right? A simple thing, SURELY not equal to a wizard hurling a boulder at him? Well, now that I've done that, I simply walk around and stab him in the back. No dramatic fight, no defense, he's down, I win. If I were the boulder guy, he could have dodged. After all, how can you fight someone like that? It's totally impossible. And since he doesn't have the special training (Didn't go to the college) I can do that to him with complete impunity, since no natural defense to Psychomancy actually exists. THere's no projectile to avoid, no time for magic to take effect, and no delay between cast and effect. Meanwhile, it isn't that taxing on blood, either. The boulder guy is coughing and wheezing, and I'm perfectly fine after that simple illusion. To repeatedly say that Psychomancy is 'just fine' leads me to conclude that you are only doing so because you have Psychomancer characters. And before you ask, I was planning on weakening Electromancy slightly.

<Snipped quote by Freeshooter92>

Keep in mind, Free, one of the main aspects of blood magic is trust. I don't want to over limit players but I also don't want to give free reins. Both aspects can kill balance and like Elite said, overbalance can hurt the effectiveness of a Player's magic. It can also make them feel like we don't Trust them to be sensible or want to 'script' them into a fix set of actions for a spell, both aspects are very negative to a Player's confidence as I'm sure you know.

In addition, and this is to all Players, while we've asked your suggestions and thoughts, we might not be able to incorporate them all. In end, we will pick and chose ideas/thoughts/suggestions based on how we, as GMs, believe it will best suit the RP. Either way, we thank you for the feed back.


In my years of experience with tabletop gaming let me tell you this: 'Overbalance' is the complaint of one annoyed that an exploit he had been using no longer works. Let me tell you what's hurtful. Ssarak can functionally do everything Alaira can do except 'Lightning explosion' (which I've only done once), and unlike Alaira there are no heavy penalties or costs. He is an extremely skilled combatant, He can fly, he can disable opponents at range with Psychomancy, which is like lightning but he cannot miss.

In combat my character is basically useless in comparison since five or six lightning bolts is nowhere NEAR as useful and he's just as potent physically.

I don't see electromancy and pyromancy as being too similar, as kinetic energy and electromagnetism are entirely different. If you start thinking about the potential applications of electromagnetism, I'm sure you can think of plenty of ways to differentiate it.


They are too similar at present in how they perform, both of them are simply ranged elemental damage. It makes sense to differentiate combat for electromancy by emphasizing quick, short-ranged combat.

Obviously the two things are quite different out of combat, but everybody knows that. Also, lighting bolts are hot plasma, so hell yeah they cause burns.

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