@Diggerton: Because we have multiple offensive mages and someone's signing up with a healer.

I'm doing this so there's no characters who are redundant in terms of their role in the party. At least all our fighter characters do fairly different things even if they all use swords. We have a fast attacker with a divine weapon, a slower greatsword user with other skills, and someone with an enormous sword who has a very wild fighting style.

It is flavor, but it's also to encourage variety. You see the class, see what that character does, and can say "okay, I won't make my character do that".

@VitaVitaAR Well I already did that then, I gave myself a small dagger...So confused. As I said, I gave him variety, and I did not know there apparently was a healer already...Want to let me know what else is coming, so I also don't pick it? Might help. I don't think having more than one person that throws a spell or heal, a bad thing at all. In fact it would only make sense, realistically. (healing especially)

I hope not, because in D&D bards we're once warriors (or something else) and they obtained a higher status, making them good at combat and also pretty versatile in what they actually can do. It's not at all werid for a bard to be offensive it literally any way if that was the case.

I mean, if you don't want me having a single magical attack. I don't mind limiting myself to one thing I suppose. But I really don't want to keep changing what that thing is. I do feel like I'm getting limited a bit. But I understand your reasoning in some ways...I'll work on it tomorrow and brainstorm some ideas. I suppose.

I think the idea is just to avoid the first edition multiclass bard's "I am good at everything" bit that would imbalance things. Being a jack of all trades would naturally sacrifice some competency and, well, we've got a rounded party. XD

@SleepingSilence: I didn't mean you need to have variety when I said we needed variety. A character doesn't need variety(we have one character who can literally just do fireballs and nothing else practical). The party does.

If you're going to be a bard, I think you should focus on the "buffs and debuffs with music" so he has more unique things to do in action in the RP. He's a hundi, so he does know how to fight by default, but he shouldn't be up on the forefront fighting.

Also looking at D&D and having people explain it, um... well first this isn't D&D and is at most only taking occasional cues from it, and secondly that was purely game mechanics and was dropped pretty quickly for not making sense.

Stunning with music was good(make that more effective, even). Sleep was also good(make that more effective too). Give him one weapon he can fight well with in a pinch, give him good buffs and debuffs, take off the stealth stuff. Give him a weak AoE heal song or something that's more just invigorating the group or something so it's different then what a healer will do.

I don't really want to micromanage but in this case he basically had a little bit of everything and wouldn't have had much to do that was different from what any of the mages would be doing much better, and he was still really good at stealth for some reason.

@Raineh Daze Even without that, Bards heal, assuming they can't is ridiculous...I'm being held back by unreasonable standards.
dandwiki.com/wiki/Bard,_Variant_(3.5e_.. <- Weapon and armor proficient. Spells. Evasion. Riff (magical attack similar to my flute) Seriously, what I'm creating IS EXACTLY what bard's usually do. Trying to limit me on the class, saying all they do is buff is stupid, especially when its wrong.
d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/bardSpells.htm A first level bard can cure light wounds...I mean healing IS a basically a buff...and apparently bard's in this world can't do that. So, I'm sitting here with very little options when my class is versatile as a warrior class and can be played in an absurd number of ways.

@VitaVitaAR I apologize, last night I might not of been in a great mood. Here's the thing, I probably would feel less resigned, if all of this was brought up in the first place, instead of having to go through a long time dealing with one honestly extremely mild issue only to then realize I had six dozen more after it all finished. But, I will try again, to make something that fits your standard. I just have questions.

Why exactly was it a problem for me to have a cross bow as my one weapon? (someone else have that already too?) I mean bards apparently can't fight melee at all and you wanted me to have one single weapon, every user in this game, has a melee sword. Wouldn't make sense in multiple ways for me to have a distance weapon? Crossbows aren't even hard to use, compared to normal bows and arrows.

I didn't actually bring D&D up first though, you mentioned D&D in your defense for why bards should only play music...and I pointed out that is not the case, it doesn't even have to be D&D. Most roleplaying games have very similar bard builds in their design. I'm fine if somehow they're a completely different class in your RP. It's your RP after all. Though I might just change my class again, and just become a mage...(as fun as it will be to change my backstory again. I feel like I don't have many options.)

It does feel a bit of a cop out, when I'm limited twice in a row because someone I can't see, and have no evidence of, apparently already called dibs. I mean, to make 'buff and debuff' my literal only ability, I'm probably going to have to give him like 10 different skills...(or give him something that essentially makes him and allies invincible or like impervious to damage or give enemies intense cripple. I don't want to be the clear weakest in the party.)

I know your just trying to make your campaign the way you want, and I'll respect it. And please know I'm not trying to cause problems. I am admittedly a little frustrated, because at this point I almost just want to redo my entire character from scratch.

I could build a third edition bard* to be entirely a melee character with minimal focus on supporting the rest of the party (TWF and Snowflake Wardance to kick things off). Doesn't mean that therefore a bard character needs multiple abilities on par with what anyone else can do; they're going to lose out on proficiency if you give that sort of breadth.

It would be better to start with a set of abilities that's balanced without actually crippling being useful, then make up a class, than to try and pick abilities to match a 'best-of' selection from D&D.

*Also, homebrew doesn't count. Most of the bard list is support-based for a reason. They're also behind wizards and so forth for spell progression.

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Your list of abilities, broken up:
Combat training (rusty, but there)
Invisibility
Magic Blast
Stun
Sleep Gas
Speed Boost
Healing and Stamina Increase

Plus a poison dagger. It's... rather overly versatile? You've got a few things that help others, but you're pretty frontloaded on sheer offence.

@SleepingSilence: D&D was the best example of bards I could think of, where most of the official stuff is focused on support. At the same time, this isn't the early editions of D&D where you had to do all kinds of weird things. It's not D&D at all, but best example of bards I could think of was D&D.

I never said you can't have combat ability. You can fight. You just need to focus on support abilites. I even said you can have healing spell, it just needs to work different and be less effective then the actual healer's spell(I've been helping that player privately).

You picked bard out in the first place, so I assumed you wanted someone support and buff and debuff focused. You shouldn't be just as good a all the other people at everything, because if everyone was good at everything then no-one would really be doing anything unique as a party.

I mean, I could let you keep everything, but you'd be vastly outstripped by the people who actually specialize in it.

@Raineh Daze Well I wasn't trying to make him have too many abilities that he becomes better than other. He was back up, the b plan so to speak. I was trying to give him a little of everything which is what I thought a bard did. I mean, I get your point. I wrote those down because I was getting limited in other ways, and I was very tired. Though looking at a few of the other characters, my many abilities are still subpar.

I will adamantly disagree with you if your calling him, too strong. If your saying he's too unfocused, that's fair and probably true but that's because I feel like I'm being held under a microscope and when you have to keep changing your character because he can't be this or that. I just kind of threw stuff to see what stuck, which ended up being next to nothing anyway.

So, I will work on one more build, focused on using a single instrument. Hopefully it will work, or I'll probably just end up starting over. Because I do sort of feel, I'm being held back because of my race decision still...just in a different way now.

@VitaVitaAR Well I never said, nor wrote that I'm better than anyone in my character sheet. I'm being told multiple different things, that's the problem. It's not consistent with what is being told. Its making this rewriting of my character extremely frustrating. I'll admit my character sheet lacks on a clear focus.

And no, I picked rogue first. I wanted to be that, But I had to change it. Because you want no overlap. And their's a warrior already, a knight...(another knight), a mage, and a healer, what exactly is even left? If only one person can be one class?

I'm really considering just starting over, Mainly because I'm starting to feel like he's going to be edited so much, he's not going to even be my character anymore. I'm scared to write a 4th? draft. Because something, anything will be wrong. (at least that's how I feel at this point.)

I will let you know when I have made a new CS to look at, apologizes in advance if it takes a while might be a little more occupied today.

I'm trying to tell you that he does too many disparate things and takes up too many skillsets by himself.

I actually want your character to be more effective and powerful, but in the "magic music" category. No other character does that. No-other class will be doing that. He will be unique in doing this. He will be very helpful to the party in doing this. And you can give him some kind of weapon, like a shortsword, handaxe, or something, that will make him able to fight in melee, since as he's a hundi he knows how to fight.

Since you picked a bard to replace your first choice, I want you to go fully with a bard since that's a role no-one else I've talked to will be taking.

Which means, if you want to be powerful and effective, you want to consolidate your skills into being support spells, buffs and debuffs that will assist the rest of the party. This means everyone is unique, and everyone will have something they're good at to do when dungeon-crawling.

If you do not want to do this, then look at the people who have already signed up, keep in mind we have a thief and a healer coming, and make something different from them. Just going off of "standard" classes there's stuff like rangers, and you can make up your own as long as it doesn't overlap with the others too much.

Took a while but finally done. ^^;

Accepted.

RICO!

@Lost CauseI have no idea who that is, since I still need to get around to watching that anime. ^^;

Once the thief bio goes up(since that's the last person intending to sign up who hasn't yet) I'll be starting the RP.

I don't suppose you'd have room for one more? I'd like to try this game again. It was so nice to see that you and Bee have made up, and since he's promised not to cause trouble OOC, I think that this could turn out pretty fun if you'll have me again.

I'd want to still bring Haruka, the Hundi monk. I liked her character a lot, and I really want to play her out.

I'd like to have you again, but my main concern now is we have two hundi already.

That being said, we're still trying to work one of the hundi(the bard) out. There's been a lot of confusion and the character might get reworked, so... hm.

I liked her so.. hm.

I'd like to have you again, but my main concern now is we have two hundi already.

That being said, we're still trying to work one of the hundi(the bard) out. There's been a lot of confusion and the character might get reworked, so... hm.

I liked her so.. hm.

Not wanting extensive class overlap makes sense, but is it a big deal if we have multiple of the same race?
I mean, we already have four humans.

Well, it's more for lore reasons. Hundi are meant to be a less common sight in Velt, so more then two seems a bit too heavily weighted in their direction.

That being said, I'm a bit on the fence about it since I did really like Haruka and I suppose it's not impossible to have more.

Four humans, two hundi, a half-giant, and I think there's been an undead proposed.

A high elf, as well.