No I mean the original F/SN. Eight servants. Count 'em.

No I mean the original F/SN. Eight servants. Count 'em.

Uhhhhh... yeah, but Gil wasn't summoned by the Grail for the Fifth War. He was incarnated at the end of the Fourth when he bathed in the Grail mud and he kinda just stuck around to fuck with people's lives in the Fifth.

Not seeing how that justifies eight Servants here, especially when the GM stated it's been decades since the last War.

EDIT: If you meant True Assassin, that's more loophole abuse by Medea and Zouken in equal parts. That normally does not happen.

My point stands, the game breaks its own rules all the time.

My point stands, the game breaks its own rules all the time.

I'm just gonna let @Unoedipal handle this one. They feel much more strongly about this than I do.

Inb4 angry manju

@Unoedipal

Ok, because this is a Fate RP and Fate has numbers for everything, and in Seyrun's case it might be worth it to calculate magical power output and od levels in terms of Units (if for nothing else, to better flaunt it to the other noobs), I've taken a read on circuits and magic energy stats and (assuming that C is regular, just like with Servant stats and that scales arithmetically like with Servants) I came up with this count, you can tweak it, but I think it follows canon very closely.

Quantity (of Circuits):

E: 6
D: 12
C: 25
B: 50
A: 75

Quality (x Units each Circuit can process):
E: 5
D: 10
C: 20
B: 30
A: 40

* note: I've made a mistake above but can't edit because I'm on my phone now. Stitch quantity and quality around.

Od (amount one can produce on their own)

The same as quality (A: 25).

Then again, I might have missed something, or screwed the progression, but know that I based out on official numbers for Od and Circuits quantity (25/20) of an average Joe adult magus. While the quality came from Shirou's known bad quality Circuits (10 units each). If you can fix them, do so, cause I would like to know how good Seyrun is in relation to drone else.

As a side note Rin would have about A +++++++++ Od (ridiculous 500 Units) under this count, but her output of 1000 wouldn't be that astronomically high, even with her 30 "sub circuits".

You know what we could do is give Seyrun an eighth servant played by yours truly.

The justification for this would rely on there being enough reserve prana to summon an eighth Servant, or a leftover Servant from a prior Grail War existing. The former is impossible for reasons of the plot and actions of the Second Owner that are as-of yet unknown, and the latter is too tightly intertwined with GM action for me to hand it over to a player, plus the advantage it grants is patently unfair.

There's actually not much of a mechanical problem with there being an eighth Servant. In theory, there's nothing wrong with me saying that when tweaking the Grail, an eighth class was added or something of that make. The issue, then, is the matter that if there was enough prana to accomplish that, it would contradict certain aspects of the Second Owner's actions and cause them to not make sense. That's also not getting into how annoying it would be to introduce a nonstandard class in the first place.

If you can think of another way to justify it, let me know. I won't reject things on face if there might be a viable option.

@KoL

Don't use numbers. There's a reason I only had Circuits on ranks, and it's because whenever you try to put them in terms of numbers it fails horribly. There's bits of information that don't reconcile well with one another, approximating is possible but a headache, and Mahoyo's stuff doesn't do any favors towards that either. Just stick with the ranks and rest assured that you're so much better than everyone else and Rin's in turn much better than you but that doesn't matter since she was never born.

By the way, up try to reply as soon as I get back home from work in more or less 7 hours.

Might I suggest just having an eighth master?

It's a good way to shake things up, especially if he uses a non-standard class like Pugilist or Wrestler. Maybe Gunner.

Might I suggest just having an eighth master?

It's a good way to shake things up, especially if he uses a non-standard class like Pugilist or Wrestler. Maybe Gunner.

...was there something in my post that didn't explain why that's impossible?

I'm legitimately confused by this response.

I've been watching the thread for a few days now in case an opportunity came up, and seeing as IncredibleBee would need a Master, I'd like to play that Master. That is, if you'd have us, @Unoedipal.

EDIT: We can always pull the leeching prana from the lives of those in the city card.

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

...was there something in my post that didn't explain why that's impossible?

I'm legitimately confused by this response.

Yeah but the grail's a magical genie wish granting device as it is, so I'd say it could pull out some spare prana.
May also be that an especially wily Heroic Spirit managed to force itself into the Grail War, perhaps forcibly sucking mana out of Fuyuki's ley lines.

<Snipped quote by Unoedipal>

Yeah but the grail's a magical genie wish granting device as it is, so I'd say it could pull out some spare prana.
May also be that an especially wily Heroic Spirit managed to force itself into the Grail War, perhaps forcibly sucking mana out of Fuyuki's ley lines.

It's just a mundane ritual on a huge scale. If you take away the scale then there's not much there. It's impossible for there to be enough prana to summon a Servant; if there was it would lead to a gaping plothole that I won't allow.

You could take the Solomon clause of "I summoned myself because I'm just that good", sure, but a Heroic Spirit at that level is far too broken for me to allow.

Besides, the Second Owner's now the true owner of the land, opposed to the greenhorn she was in the 50s. She wouldn't let someone jack her leylines nowadays.

We can always pull the leeching prana from the lives of those in the city card.

I don't mean for maintenance, I mean for summoning. The Grail needs to touch the Throne, copy the data, shove it into a Spiritual Core and consequently give it form, bind it to an anchor (Master), and help maintain it.

It doesn't have the leftover prana to do that.

Okay but why doesn't it have leftover prana to do that one more time?

I've been watching the thread for a few days now in case an opportunity came up, and seeing as IncredibleBee would need a Master, I'd like to play that Master. That is, if you'd have us, @Unoedipal.

EDIT: We can always pull the leeching prana from the lives of those in the city card.

<Snipped quote by Unoedipal>

Yeah but the grail's a magical genie wish granting device as it is, so I'd say it could pull out some spare prana.
May also be that an especially wily Heroic Spirit managed to force itself into the Grail War, perhaps forcibly sucking mana out of Fuyuki's ley lines.

What you guys are saying isn't impossible, IMO. But would only make sense for an Avenger Class Servant to be summoned in such a way.

Okay but why doesn't it have leftover prana to do that one more time?

Explaining that requires explaining certain actions of the Second Owner during the past seventy years, which I can't explain because that's a plot spoiler.

<Snipped quote by Sodium>

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

What you guys are saying isn't impossible, IMO. But would only make sense for an Avenger Class Servant to be summoned in such a way.

Summoning Avenger still means summoning a Servant, even if he's shit, so it hits the same wall.

<Snipped quote by Sodium>

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

What you guys are saying isn't impossible, IMO. But would only make sense for an Avenger Class Servant to be summoned in such a way.

I can roll with that. There's plenty of historical avengers I can write up.

<Snipped quote by KoL>

I can roll with that. There's plenty of historical avengers I can write up.

I don't know what KoL's thought process is there, but that's not the case.

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

I don't know what KoL's thought process is there, but that's not the case.

Actually, I was jitsu commenting on ok with it one way or another. Anyway, there's always the possibly of cutting the Priest's arm off and throwing it into the Grail, to cover some of the needed mana with his CSs.

So from what I can gather, someone's leeching all the spare prana because conspiracies, but the grail didn't have enough enough leftover to make an eight servant, despite that possibly being precisely what the grail needs to stop these conspiracies.
Am I correct?

Also, Solomon can't be the only one who willed himself to be summoned. Heroic Spirits are by their very nature exceptional individuals, and the vast majority of candidates would possess a strong desire to return to the human world, whether it's to experience battle again, see what's become of their home in the past 2000 years, etc.

I also feel like it's be weird if the Second Owner could stop the Grail or a Heroic Spirit from leeching prana from Fuyuki's leylines. In general, wouldn't she be allowing that to happen anyways, since servants use quite a bit of mana/prana to power NPs?