Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Terminal
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Posted everything a bit early, since I have to run out soon.

Look forward to RPGC#9.

Next time, dress for the tropics. The Amazon beckons.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Loksfjoer
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Okay, what I'm going to say here counts for both the labours and RPGC's. I'm getting disheartened and this is because the number of times I get feedback with the advice to proofread my entries. I do that! Always! I read over them several times. This one I also let someone else read and he only pointed out one sentence that had to be reworded, but my English is probably better than his.

Please, everyone, if you see bad grammar, spelling mistakes, awkward sentences, typo's, I need people to go over them with me. I don't know what I do wrong and I don't feel like I'm improving at all in this aspect.

@TerminalI went back to the entry and read it again. I still don't see the mistakes you found. I'm sorry. If I repeated the same mistakes, I probably think they are correctly used. Just like I can't find the words I spelled properly but used incorrectly. I know that in the past you let an entry of mine pass because it met your standards, but just barely and the seventh labour was also grudgingly passed by RomanAria because of the grammar. Do you think I have what it takes to compete in the next labours? Because I feel after all the RPGC's and Labours, I didn't improve much grammar-wise, seeing how often I see the same kind of feedback return.

Also, congratulations @Holmishire, now you carry the torch alone. Keep up your winning streak!
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Terminal
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@TerminalI went back to the entry and read it again. I still don't see the mistakes you found. I'm sorry. If I repeated the same mistakes, I probably think they are correctly used. Just like I can't find the words I spelled properly but used incorrectly. I know that in the past you let an entry of mine pass because it met your standards, but just barely and the seventh labour was also grudgingly passed by RomanAria because of the grammar. Do you think I have what it takes to compete in the next labours? Because I feel after all the RPGC's and Labours, I didn't improve much grammar-wise, seeing how often I see the same kind of feedback return.


I said in my review that there were fewer grammar mistakes in your entry than in the previous one. You are improving.

Please, everyone, if you see bad grammar, spelling mistakes, awkward sentences, typo's, I need people to go over them with me. I don't know what I do wrong and I don't feel like I'm improving at all in this aspect.


There are two reasons why I did not and generally do not go out of my way to specifically point out these kinds of errors. Firstly, doing so takes time. If I were to include a list each time I wrote a review, easily 80% of the time spent writing the review would be dedicated to that purpose alone. Secondly and as an extension of the first point, there are a lot of errors present (even if they are sparse relative to the length of the entry itself) - it is supremely tedious to have to point them out.

That said, since you have expressed concern over the issue, here is a list of (nearly) every single grammatical error in the entry. I omitted all errors present in quotations and in repeated paragraphs, since those are implied. Errors are in bold and underlined. A few have clarifying commentary in parenthesis to explain the precise problem in instances where it is not immediately apparent.

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Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by PlatinumSkink
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... That was a stupid meta joke. It did not have anything to do with the story. I was well aware of the challenge requirements and do not consider the meta joke a part of my entry for the sake of clearing the labour.

Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by shylarah
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@Holmishire oh my gosh, I liked your entry to begin with, but didn't see what RomanAria just pointed out. That's probably because I didn't read any of the other entries. I could tell you were taking bits from different stories, BUT OH MY GOSH. Clever, clever -- very impressive!

@Terminal I may have taken the challenge perhaps less seriously than it deserved, but the only way I could conceive of a writer being defeated by a creation is when the creation refuses to play along. I find the entire thing amusing, probably because of how close to home it hits, and perhaps my feelings showed in my writing. That said, the actual story I told is not entirely fictitious. As I commented a few times before, this actually happens to me a lot. Perhaps the specifics are different, but the overarching theme is the same. A new character refuses to talk, or an old character straight up says that I'm writing them wrong, and their actual reaction to something is not what I'd like but something that does nothing for the thing I'm writing. I really do try Q&A sessions with characters to get to know them, though perhaps less formally, or stick them in situations in my head to see how they react. If I'm mocking anything here, it is myself. I'm disappointed that you feel I passed on a technicality, but I can understand where you're coming from and appreciate your honesty.

For the linebreak issue, I guess I need either to stick indents in there for every new paragraph, and not skip lines, or always skip lines. *huffs a sigh* I'm hearing this from several places, and the idea makes me uncomfortable, but I guess that's life.

@RomanAria I can see where my writing lacked the depth I should have tried for. I'm glad you enjoyed it, however.

To both of you, I'm a little confused by the way you handled my story and WiseDragonGirl's. The concept is very similar, and yet each of you judged them differently -- and differently from each other. Term liked Dragon's, and felt she failed on a technicality, while I passed on one. Aria liked mine, and felt Dragon failed because she wasn't truly defeated. Would you mind elaborating a bit further? Term, in your case I'm particularly interested in learning what came across as insincere in my piece, and how I might improve.

What the heck is the Final Hazard? And how will not clearing certain things affect it?
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Terminal
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Term, in your case I'm particularly interested in learning what came across as insincere in my piece, and how I might improve.


Let's take a look at one of the lines in your story, to help illustrate why I thought that.

To my surprise, they do nothing. “I warned you, I would be ready. This won’t work.” The three fighters making to put the character down find their weapons meeting with no resistance, and then look around in obvious confusion. They’re background characters, only there to add to the scenery, so they’re not too smart, but even they can’t possibly miss the person standing there with a mildly amused smile. I examine the scene more closely, and discover that a faint shimmer now covers the shadowy and shifting form. “Hey, that’s not allowed! Standard characters don’t get access to plot ninja functions!” I exclaim, angry both at my failure and the violation of the laws of the page. Going unseen and unnoticed in active scenes isn’t something I let any old character do.
Paragraph Eight


The indicated exclamation is rather...nonsensical. Juvenile, even. The sort of statement uttered in a childrens' book by a particularly dimwitted criminal, hypocritically angry with the rascally kids for getting the better of them. Which is to say, in a reasonable expectation of an encounter between you and this character, my opinion of your intelligence is too high to accommodate for you ever saying that. Or anything like it. There is no reason for you to say it, because it is not the sort of thing any normal person would ever exclaim...

...Unless they knew they had an audience. In the more abstract mental battlefield, you would never say anything like that. You would just get angry and move on in silence. Hence, the setup feels more like a staged performance. Scripted, even. I will readily accept that the story may be based on or inspired by an event that actually took place if you say so, but the way you dressed it up nonetheless gives me doubt.

As for improving - ask yourself 'why' more frequently. If there is no clear or logical reason for the inclusion of a particular aspect of the story, either take a moment to remark upon that lack, or else consider removing it. Then compare with how you suspect you yourself might behave in a similar situation - or else compare to how you have behaved in the past.

I get that mental abstractions are not always straightforward and reasonable. That said, they rarely take the form of Saturday Morning Cartoons.

If that makes any sense.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by shylarah
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@Terminal Ah, I see. Yeah, the audience has no way of knowing about the other things I've written that span both "sides" of the page -- plot ninjas are from that, and from NaNoWriMo where they originated. Should have considered that better. ^.^;; If I'm going to use something from another work, no matter how well established, it's best to make sure it fits well, instead of just going with it. Plot ninjas, and the other side of the page as a whole, are familiar to me, but I do look like a bit of a nut if I reference them without explanation, even if it is how I generally characterize my whole process.

Thank you.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Revenant Writer
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Posted everything a bit early, since I have to run out soon.

Look forward to RPGC#9.

Next time, dress for the tropics. The Amazon beckons.


Hello Terminal,

When does the next labour start? I was going to participate in the last, but as I found out about it with less than a week remaining, I decided to wait for the next instead of rushing to pull something together. This time, though, I am hoping to get started as soon as the challenge requirements are posted.

Thank you for your time,
-Reven
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by mdk
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<Snipped quote by Terminal>

Hello Terminal,

When does the next labour start? I was going to participate in the last, but as I found out about it with less than a week remaining, I decided to wait for the next instead of rushing to pull something together. This time, though, I am hoping to get started as soon as the challenge requirements are posted.

Thank you for your time,
-Reven


TTL and RPGC tag-team back and forth. We're..... almost ready to get our thread up, probably tomorrow early or today very late (my fault for lagging!). The next Labor will begin shortly after the close of the next RPGC.
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Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Revenant Writer
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<Snipped quote by Revenant Writer>

TTL and RPGC tag-team back and forth. We're..... almost ready to get our thread up, probably tomorrow early or today very late (my fault for lagging!). The next Labor will begin shortly after the close of the next RPGC.


Great to know, mdk, and thank you for the swift response.

One more question... What does RPGC stand for? I am guessing that it means 'Role Play Game Challenge', but as I am new to the site, I am not really sure.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Holmishire
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<Snipped quote by mdk>

Great to know, mdk, and thank you for the swift response.

One more question... What does RPGC stand for? I am guessing that it means 'Role Play Game Challenge', but as I am new to the site, I am not really sure.

"Roleplayer Guild Contest". Much like the Twelve Labours, RPGC is a writing contest. There are, however, a few notable differences:
  • RPGC employs a theme instead of a challenge. These themes are typically up to interpretation and non-restrictive.
  • RPGC winners are selected by popular vote, instead of by a panel of set judges. There are, however, usually bonus challenges that judges distribute prizes for.
  • RPGC accepts both short stories and poetry. On occasion, even some other things, depending on the theme.
Ultimately, the Labours are a challenge in self-actualization, while in RPGC entrants compete directly against one another. See here for the official info. (Note that I am not a contest mod—just helping to point you in the right direction.)



Now's probably also a good time to respond to the Eighth Labour results.

I thank both judges for their reviews. I'm glad you caught the intertextual consequences, @RomanAria—with the others' focus on the Ghost, I was worried I might have doomed myself.

@Terminal, it seems I have failed to live up to my promise. Not entirely unforeseen on my part, but a disappointment nonetheless. As for the plot holes, I take full responsibility for their presence—some were indeed due to a lack of exposition, but a few popped up in my attempts at streamlining the story. (I wrote a good 600 words on the subject of my errors, but realized such hindsight was likely of no interest to anyone but myself.)

The best I can do, then, is to push myself to do better next time. Ineffable Grace may well be outside my grasp, but I'm not out of the running yet!

Finally, @WiseDragonGirl, I hope this setback doesn't discourage you from continuing to fight till the end. Seven is impressive, but eleven even more so!
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Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Revenant Writer
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@Holmishire

Ah, thank you for clearing that up, and for the additional information. I will have to look at participating in the next RPGC.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Terminal
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Pleasant update for all of you.

@Mahz has awarded the Eighth Labour prizes, as well as the Sixth and Seventh Labour prizes. Those of you who won those particular Labours should find some neat additions to your profiles.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by PlatinumSkink
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... A random thought just occurred to me that made my eyes widen and I think I'm going to make it my head-canon.

... He beat me, didn't he.

I gave the Creation complete access to my mind, meaning that he learned that he was in an entry. And, he also learned that he needed to beat ME, but since he's a creation of mine existing only in my entry and not in the real world, he cannot beat me by normal means. So, because he's my opposite, he clearly understood whatever about the Labour I don't get (and still don't get), and therefore used his personality to cause me to write him saying that line. According to me, I had written an entry that would clear the requirements, but my Creation had ensured to say the words that he knew would make me fail the Labour. He defeated me by making me fail the Labour.

He beat me and I didn't even clear the Labour for it. I'm completely utterly defeated. I can see him totally laughing his ass off at me inside my mind. ... Damn it. XD
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Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by PlatinumSkink
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Responses to the reviews of the Eight Labour. … And yes, for those who were wondering, the story is ”<untitled>” because the Narrator was never able to give it a name. XD







Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by shylarah
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@PlatinumSkink Yeah, I had a similar struggle. If I'm writing something, if it's my creation, how do I lose? I realized I couldn't do so within a story, and had to focus instead on the writing itself. I thought this challenge was the perfect way to laugh about how I go about writing, and the issues well-made characters present, as well as the irritation of writer's block. I think the distinction is that you created the character specifically for the challenge, which in a way isn't even beating yourself.

I took a situation where I am routinely beaten by both words and characters, and expanded on it. And even then Term didn't like it much because I ventured pretty far into the layer of things between actual IC writing and reality, where all the meta stuff lies. That and my inclusion of various NaNo related things and how I've developed my mental image of the writing process. Perhaps I didn't need to reference the plot ninjas, but I enjoy the picture of scene changes and minor fixes being carried out by an elite team of stealthy editors. A character that doesn't settle within a created scene could be said to use the same sort of skills that make the plot ninjas effective at their jobs.

Where was I going with this again? @.@ Sorry, I'm all over the place today. Anyhow, I can see why the judges decided the way they did, even though in the strictly meta sense it was fairly solid. I agree that it was a bit /more/ choppy than necessary -- perhaps you could have neatened it up enough that you would have the idea of not being able to edit because you were so soundly beaten, but not so much that it detracts significantly from the story. The sudden perspective shifts I liked, actually, but they might use a little bit of tightening as well. However, the issue that you deliberately engineered your own fate, while I wouldn't call it insincere, very definitely counts in my mind as helping your own downfall. Perhaps you were unable to stop the chain of events once they started, but if you had the intention at the beginning, you could have changed things to make them go a different way in the process of character creation. I can't violate character integrity by having, say, a sworn pacifist go on a murderous rampage without serious cause for such a change in a story, but I could choose to make or use a character more prone to violence. That issue aside, I did find your entry amusing. Losing control over characters is all too familiar to me. What's more, I could hear the groan of my student self presented with a writing assignment that held little appeal -- one of the ones you did because you had to and not because you had something that needed to be written.
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Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by PlatinumSkink
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@shylarah ... But it's still technically a story/character written by an author with the intention of clearing the challenge! Nothing is going to change that! XD

Anyways. Thanks for your input. I'm happy you found my entry amusing and so. Yeah... but the challenge still confuses me. Haha.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Terminal
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Announcing now that due to reasons - including the Guild's current instability - that the start date for TTL#9 is now Objective Midnight of the 19th. That means you all will have the entire weekend to get a head-start on your entries.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by shylarah
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Woo! Though I'll be at ACEN....
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by PlatinumSkink
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@Terminal But, I'm extremely busy in the week-end! All those plans with other people who became free to have plans and such! XD
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