@Rin Honestly, not sure I agree with the C-list argument. I think we got a good variety, some I would argue could be B or even A list.

@FantasyChicI don't agree with it either, which is why I was tempted to give it a go just to show it could be done. XD Guess that gives me something to work on tomorrow.

I think he's asking for people to start their characters as C-list so that in-game events can transpire, leading to their advancement by story means. If they came in with S-list powers, then what is there to really learn or develop? It's not so difficult taking an OP character and telling them not to be OP as compared to starting out with a C-list character and by sandbox and constant interactions with other writers (that you hope to constantly have), devising plots where they could train, improve, and learn new abilities. To me, that's way more challenging in a sandbox game versus if it was GM-led, then that would be a different story.

I feel like in the last version we actually had something of an opposite problem where a lot of the villains were very high powered and most of the heroes were just slightly above street level.

I just found the inspiration I was looking for XD I'm calling the demi-god archetype

I made a Paul Bunyan XD I've always wanted to play a character related to american folklore!

I think he's asking for people to start their characters as C-list so that in-game events can transpire, leading to their advancement by story means. If they came in with S-list powers, then what is there to really learn or develop? It's not so difficult taking an OP character and telling them not to be OP as compared to starting out with a C-list character and by sandbox and constant interactions with other writers (that you hope to constantly have), devising plots where they could train, improve, and learn new abilities. To me, that's way more challenging in a sandbox game versus if it was GM-led, then that would be a different story.

Thats a huge problem though.

C list powers can't improve much beyond their initial conception. This isn't One Peace where the powers are intentionally vague and there is haki around and all that. If your saying they're improved by tech, that means that they might as well be a slightly different Ironman or something since tech goes a super long way. Plus tech replicates most C list powers and some B list powers anyway.

I mean, you could just have everyone be Avengers or just below it level at the start and you'd still have lots and LOTS of things you could do. Or JL without Superman, so much you can do. You don't need to start off super super weak as that tends to tire or bore people pretty fast in a superhero RP from the few dozens I've seen start and die within a week.

If you really want to start with a weak to strong story, start at Spiderman early year levels at least, not the hordes of baddies that early year Spiderman could defeat super easy. Because if your that weak, pretty sure any loony with a shotgun could end you right quick or do your job.

Also if you have a Demigod archtype, your sorta forcing yourself to start at Avengers level or below it unless they're the main big bad.

@Rin Honestly, not sure I agree with the C-list argument. I think we got a good variety, some I would argue could be B or even A list.

If that was the case lantern wouldn't be hating on Ironman or other gadget heroes, and we wouldn't have the demigod archtype.

@Archmage MC I don't think he was hating on Ironman or gadgets. I think he was only using them as an example for your sheet. I dunno though, have to ask Lantern what he means.

@Archmage MC I don't think he was hating on Ironman or gadgets. I think he was only using them as an example for your sheet. I dunno though, have to ask Lantern what he means.

What I got is that hes not a fan of a long list of D or C list powers, which is basically what every gadget hero has. And then he went on to say how he denied someone who wanted to be an Iron man char and had a long list of powers that Iron man can do due to being a tech/gadget based hero.

Its just really confusing how hes all over the place with what he does and doesn't want, especially in an RP thats supposed to be 'build a world' or 'open ended' instead of an 'on the rails' kinda thing where being more restrictive makes more sense.

@Archmage MC The main reason I don't like the idea of this character comes from the fact 75% of the CS is a long ass powers list with 30 powers when including the 24 bullet points for Toon Physics. I can't accept this anymore than I could an Iron Man knockoff with 30 abilities in a suit of armor. It's way too much and uses elements from too many different power sets, and when it takes 24 bullet points to explain all the things included in one power... it gives me a headache trying to wrap my mind around it all. It's like when somebody has telepathy but then has two dozen applications for the power. I don't want that in the game anymore than I do a Deadpool knockoff who breaks the fourth wall.

~KL~

@Archmage MC This is what he said. I see nowhere in there him saying he rejected someone with those abilities. He was using it as an example purely. What I get from this is the fact that your power list is too long. She is able to do too much. If that means she needs to be C-level, then so be it, join the rest of us who have limited power usage. But again, this is something you need to ask KL about, because this is not my game. I am sure he'll poke you when he gets on. Or PM him. Either or and then you can figure out where to go from there.

<Snipped quote by The Kid Lantern>

@Archmage MC This is what he said. I see nowhere in there him saying he rejected someone with those abilities. He was using it as an example purely. What I get from this is the fact that your power list is too long. She is able to do too much. If that means she needs to be C-level, then so be it, join the rest of us who have limited power usage. But again, this is something you need to ask KL about, because this is not my game. I am sure he'll poke you when he gets on. Or PM him. Either or and then you can figure out where to go from there.

Eh, what I'm getting from it is. "You can't have any powerset that can make you versatile or allow you to go outside of some pre-defined notions of mine" or "I don't want to have to even think about this character." (Though the former feels more correct due to his example.) So that means out of his archtypes, the following archtypes are contradictory to his vision from his statement.

DemiGod
Advanced Techno (Even lists Iron man there as an example to follow, but says no to said kind of character in your quoted post!)
Archer/Sharpshooter (unless they have no trick arrows or shots)
Cosmic Outlaw (Due to his example of Starlord)
Plant Person (Basically a nature version of Iron Man)
Elemental
Genius

And potentially the Wildcard heroes, Vigilante heroes, and Aliens.

Basically by saying what he did to shoot me down, he also set a bad precedent that he doesn't want versatile or strong powersets or characters that are say, 2000's Teen Titans that have a mix of comedy and seriousness. Sorta both actually.

I made a Paul Bunyan XD I've always wanted to play a character related to american folklore!

Paul Bunyan [+]

Archetype: Demi-God

Name: Paul Bunyan

Alias: Paul Bunyan, The Maker the America

Age: Looks to be 26, actually 239

Powers: Super Strength, Super durability (Skin of Steel), Slight earth manipulation, ability to talk to Oxen.

Weaknesses: He’s not exactly smart and nor is he street smart. He often ends up in places where he isn’t meant to be. He is also surprisingly easy to outsmart or just knock out.

Alignment: Hero

Personality: Proud – Idiot – doesn’t-know-his-own-strength – Kind - Funny

Appearance:

BRIEF Bio: Most people know the story of Paul Bunyan, the man who created America. Of course as of recently people have had far less pride when it comes to being an American. As such he has grown weaker of the years, though his pride has not. Throughout the years he has been watching America, as a sort of ghost for most of it though. It wasn’t until recently that he was able to take physical form again. As such he was able to take action again in hopes of cleaning up the streets and making America the Country it was meant to be, a happy mixing pot of cultures.

Storylines: Finding Babe the Ox. Babe the ox has recently turned up and is causing a mess just outside the city. Something has caused Babe to go berserk, what could it be? Who knows, maybe the spirit of another American legend.

Notes: Paul is not is giant self like he was in legends, he is however a bear of a man standing around 6 feet. Paul also normally fights with an axe that does not break, much like the axe he has in legends.

Oh for fu-....

If you're going to be Paul Bunyan, I'm half tempted to be Big Joe Mufferaw, just to show you damn Americans what a real lumberjack folk legend looks like!

@Archmage MC

Pretty sure he was trying to say that your character can do too much and that it would be very easy for you to exploit the system and go OP; just that.

As for that Iron Man thing, look at it like this. Say you were playing Batman, and instead of being just simple Batman, on your sheet you had every different batsuit and gadget that Batman had ever used in his +70 year run. That would seem a little much, would it not? Batman has a whole RP to gain more abilities and gadgets, why would he start with everything? Your character seems fine at its core, and I don’t think it’d be impossible for her to learn or get some of that stuff later. Like, with everything you can do, does light REALLY need that ACME satchel or that hole? Maybe Light’s not too strong and has to train to increase her strength and speed? There’s so much you could do with your character in the course of this RP to make her better.

@Archmage MC

Pretty sure he was trying to say that your character can do too much and that it would be very easy for you to exploit the system and go OP; just that.

As for that Iron Man thing, look at it like this. Say you were playing Batman, and instead of being just simple Batman, on your sheet you had every different batsuit and gadget that Batman had ever used in his +70 year run. That would seem a little much, would it not? Batman has a whole RP to gain more abilities and gadgets, why would he start with everything? Your character seems fine at its core, and I don’t think it’d be impossible for her to learn or get some of that stuff later. Like, with everything you can do, does light REALLY need that ACME satchel or that hole? Maybe Light’s not too strong and has to train to increase her strength and speed? There’s so much you could do with your character in the course of this RP to make her better.

A really good thing that could solve all of this without KL making such a sweeping statement would be telling us the exact powerlevel he wants everyone to be at. Course with a demigod character not being a villain, it would at minimum have to be Spiderman later years or Avengers. Or if we're talking DC, Probably JL without Superman or Young Justice.

I get what your kinda saying, but I made her with Avengers power in mind or maybe a level below that. I mean, look at the vast majority of the Toon Physics stuff and you see most of them are inconsiqential, harmful, or compound on each other to basically equate to "Gravity has a delayed effect", and there are... 3 I'm going to say, that are actually impactful. The rest is mostly standard fare, and her weaknesses more than make up for all of that due to being critically weak to pretty much any control type power or character and being unlucky to boot!

I mean, it is a 'create a universe' sorta thing, so we shouldn't start out not being able to even handle say... I dunno... a C list villain. Because at that point why not just be a US army soldier with a SCAR? You'd be far more effective than any superhero at that level. Heck, Farmer Bob with a shotgun is more effective than a superhero at that point, or anyone with a gun.

<Snipped quote by Marik>

A really good thing that could solve all of this without KL making such a sweeping statement would be telling us the exact powerlevel he wants everyone to be at. Course with a demigod character not being a villain, it would at minimum have to be Spiderman later years or Avengers. Or if we're talking DC, Probably JL without Superman or Young Justice.

I get what your kinda saying, but I made her with Avengers power in mind or maybe a level below that. I mean, look at the vast majority of the Toon Physics stuff and you see most of them are inconsiqential, harmful, or compound on each other to basically equate to "Gravity has a delayed effect", and there are... 3 I'm going to say, that are actually impactful. The rest is mostly standard fare, and her weaknesses more than make up for all of that due to being critically weak to pretty much any control type power or character and being unlucky to boot!

I mean, it is a 'create a universe' sorta thing, so we shouldn't start out not being able to even handle say... I dunno... a C list villain. Because at that point why not just be a US army soldier with a SCAR? You'd be far more effective than any superhero at that level. Heck, Farmer Bob with a shotgun is more effective than a superhero at that point, or anyone with a gun.

I don't know dude, farmers are pretty shit tier. Even Raditz could take out a farmer.

<Snipped quote by Archmage MC>

I don't know dude, farmers are pretty shit tier. Even Raditz could take out a farmer.

... Damn thats a good point >.<

The plant archetype is still open, right?

@GiskI think it is, yeah.

@The Kid Lantern I finished my CS. I hope it's acceptable

I never said anywhere I wanted C listers. And with a power set like 'toon force' or whatever it's being called.. @Archmage MC you realize every comparable DC or Marvel character [Mr. Myxlplyx, Slaspstick, Bat-Mite, and Impossible Man] is in fact a C lister and only one of them has been in anything for more than a couple issues at a time [looking at Slapstick being featured in Deadpool's Mercs for Money title, and there's no question why it works there because it's a Deadpool title].

I was merely using Ironman as an example of how somebody can take a power set and go OP with it. @Marik hit the nail on the head. Batman is a simple enough character, but if you include every suit variation and every gadget he's used in 70+ years its ridiculous. When comparing it to a demi-god I look at somebody like Thor or Ares. Thor has the hammer, controls the weather, and has heightened physical attributes. Didn't take 24 bullet points, and it doesn't dip into a ton of power sets. For the record if somebody applies for the Advanced Techno archetype and has tech that mimics a dozen powers and has several sub powers based on them it WOULD NOT be accepted any sooner than somebody with Impossible Man levels of power. Over powered is over powered.

When I think of OP'ed characters there's a few examples that come to mind that nobody should try applying with. Sticking with just Marvel examples it'd be folks like Galactus, Silver Surfer, Thanos, and Impossible Man. Nobody's gonna dispute Galactus, it's obvious he's too powerful... even though a lot of his powers are undefined. Surfer being his herald and literally tapping into limitless amounts of the power cosmic gives him the super long list of powers that dip into several power sets... again I don't think anybody would dispute that. Thanos is the same with heightened physical stats and untold amounts of power, moreso if he's got any Infinity Gems lying around. With Impossible Man he can literally do the impossible, warp time and space in ANY way, create ANYTHING out of thin air, break the laws of physics, and nothing can really touch him power wise except one of the others I mentioned. If it puts things into perspective, Thor is a god and even HE is less powerful than the folks on my short list. Doesn't make Thor C list but giving somebody two dozen powers doesn't exactly make them A list either.

Now... I'm tired of the argument. I've made my point pretty clear why it isn't acceptable and it takes up way too much time on here when I've got other Character Sheets to go over [which I'll be doing after this post]. Do me a favor and instead of coming on here with attitude and putting words in a guy's mouth like 'he only wants C listers' and 'You can't have any powerset that can make you versatile or allow you to go outside of some pre-defined notions of mine...' think about some of the classics who are less powerful than your character. Spiderman is versatile. So is Ironman. And so is Thor. EVERY single one of them look like jokes power-wise in comparison to somebody with powers like Toon Girl's. You insist the character has weaknesses and isn't too powerful but if bombs only turn the character black or ashy, the character can not only survive being cut into pieces but control them as well, etc... I just don't see it. She's basically a Toon God and more powerful than actual gods and isn't something I feel the game could benefit from. The one game I did accept a version of this character it turned into a mess, I'm not doing it again. Sorry.

~KL~