<Snipped quote by Dark Wind>

With Trump, we may just have opened that door.

2024: Kanye West for the Dems, Ted Nugent for the Reps

I mean, that's if Trump or Hillary lasts eight years.

I still believe if we whack Sanders hard enough he might release the spectre of Eugene Debs

I still believe if we whack Sanders hard enough he might release the spectre of Eugene Debs

If he had that spectre, he'd probably have been a better speaker. What we should do is get Nic Cage to go find the spectre of Eugene Debs, and then we install it in one of our progressive politicians so they become more impressive.

<Snipped quote by Vortex>

If he had that spectre, he'd probably have been a better speaker. What we should do is get Nic Cage to go find the spectre of Eugene Debs, and then we install it in one of our progressive politicians so they become more impressive.

National Treasure 3?

@Vilageidiotx

Considering that he went from almost unheard of to the modern icon of ""socialism"", i'd say he did pretty well.

Personally, I just want Debs to take over Cage. Imagine how glorious that would be.

<Snipped quote by Dinh AaronMk>

Considering that he went from almost unheard of to the modern icon of ""socialism"", i'd say he did pretty well.

Personally, I just want Debs to take over Cage. Imagine how glorious that would be.

I think he mostly did well because, though he had limited range, what he did say really struck a vein. I mean, Trump is doing really well even though he is possibly the worst speaker in American political history, and that too is because he struck a vein.

But if we had a really charismatic guy, like a far-left version of Obama? That's be sweet.

@Vilageidiotx

I suppose you're right. And with that said its important to note that they are for the most part hitting the same vein, a huge discontent with neoliberalism and the establishment.

And yes it would be wonderful if we had a leader as progressive as Obama, like the risen corpse of Debs, I just hope that they would build a movement that seeks change from outside the system, rather than reform from within. And on that, I have my doubts.

@Vilageidiotx Out of interest Doggo, who do you think won the debates?

I had Hilary somewhat solidly beating Trump in the 1st

Trump Beating Hilary (mostly on theatrics & charisma) in the 2nd

And Hilary edging Trump in the 3rd.

@Vilageidiotx Out of interest Doggo, who do you think won the debates?

I had Hilary somewhat solidly beating Trump in the 1st

Trump Beating Hilary (mostly on theatrics & charisma) in the 2nd

And Hilary edging Trump in the 3rd.

I think the entire "Winner of the debate" thing is overplayed. The winner will be the person who the scientific polls show to be gaining. We can make all kinds of arguments that one person has won, but if it is the other person making the gains, then what exactly did our person win?

Personally, I think Trump's debate performances were bad. I thought this because, before the debates, I thought Trump could out-do Hillary simply because Hillary is a stilted, awkward speaker. But instead of doing his research and making sure he sounded like somebody who could be president, he just sounded whiny and petulant throughout, to the point he made me think I could do a better job then him, and since I can barely whistle without assistance that doesn't give me much hope. The polls reflected this for the first two debates, though the third hasn't quite had time to process yet.

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

I think the entire "Winner of the debate" thing is overplayed. The winner will be the person who the scientific polls show to be gaining. We can make all kinds of arguments that one person has won, but if it is the other person making the gains, then what exactly did our person win?

Personally, I think Trump's debate performances were bad. I thought this because, before the debates, I thought Trump could out-do Hillary simply because Hillary is a stilted, awkward speaker. But instead of doing his research and making sure he sounded like somebody who could be president, he just sounded whiny and petulant throughout, to the point he made me think I could do a better job then him, and since I can barely whistle without assistance that doesn't give me much hope. The polls reflected this for the first two debates, though the third hasn't quite had time to process yet.

Have you been watching the debates @Weird Tales, what do you think?

What I hate about the debates is, like..... Trump lists off a record of self-indictments by Clinton. Clinton avoids being rattled, doesn't acknowledge them -- Clinton won that exchange, in the eyes of the media. Clinton's emails are read off, she talks about X and gets caught in a lie -- but she doesn't get rattled, so it's imaginary-points for her. Call Trump an ineffective businessman (two blocks away from the Vegas strip casino that he fucking owns, and oh yeah it's gold plated), he gets rattled -- yup, must be an ineffective businessman!!

In this election more than any other I can remember, "Looking good while being terrible" just counts for so much more than "Being good and looking terrible." It's probably always been that way but now I notice it more than usual. The facts are inconvenient distractions from the theater, and I-shit-you-not 96% of the media is literally in Hilary's pocket, so they control all the theater too. It's ridiculous, I hate it, and I hope it doesn't work.

On the bright side -- there's a way to make it actually worse. I'm voting for chaos. You should vote for chaos too. Let's make this as terrible as possible.

Fucking McMullin. If ever there was an election that felt that somebody wrote it. We're hitting the plot twists at all the right times.

I blame the american people for putting us in such a shitty situation with two genuinely shitty choices in the first place. Like, seriously, what the fuck? Why am I living here?

Welcome to the land where everyone watched the Super Bowl by the millions but suddenly aren't interested in TV once politics or literally anything important comes one. This is honestly one factor of why I think we just need to get rid of major league sports and erase that shit entirely.

<Snipped quote by ArenaSnow>

Welcome to the land where everyone watched the Super Bowl by the millions but suddenly aren't interested in TV once politics or literally anything important comes one. This is honestly one factor of why I think we just need to get rid of major league sports and erase that shit entirely.

Eh, I'm not a fan of sports either, but only for the same reason I'm not a fan of Doctor Who or Death Metal: It's just not my thing. But it is all escapism, and we are all doing some escapism, being that we are having this conversation on an RP site. True that religion, and football, might be opiates of the masses, but only in the same way Netflix, video games, breakfast burritos, and reading are the opiates of the Vilageidiotx.

The problem isn't too many "Opiates"; it's too little serious attention to politics. That's something else entirely. Too few people are making the most of their citizenship. I think it is possible to enjoy things and also be a responsible citizen.

<Snipped quote by ArenaSnow>

Welcome to the land where everyone watched the Super Bowl by the millions but suddenly aren't interested in TV once politics or literally anything important comes one. This is honestly one factor of why I think we just need to get rid of major league sports and erase that shit entirely.

Have you met Americans before?

I'm all for things that keep uninterested people away from the ballot box. People who don't give one single shit for three consecutive years, then magically wake up and find political religion for a few months during Negative Ad Year, are a blight. I blame these shenanigans on the Vote or Die campaign.

....and, also, I mean, politics by lowest-common-denominator was never really SUPPOSED to give us some brilliant government. The whole idea is to elect the government that pisses everybody off the least (ever heard that Churchill-ism, 'democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the other ones?') Having two jerks facing off for the presidency shouldn't be a big deal -- they shouldn't be capable of wrecking the whole damn country. So a big part of the problem is that we treat these 49-to-47 "blowout" victories among the 30% of the population that actually votes as some kind of 'mandate from the masses.' All we're really saying is "eh, I guess you'll do for a while." But that gets spun into "AMERICA HAS OFFICIALLY DECIDED THAT TACOS ARE BOTH FREE AND MANDATORY," or whatever nonsense the jerk was running on.

I am starting to think that the politicians we get are our punishment for failing to be more attentive to the small things in the system; who we elect to a state legislature eventually runs for office nationally. (And they get away woth a lot, particularly in contracting and real estate development.) We should be paying attention to the local stuff.

Once every four years isn't sufficient engagement in the system. Where are all these people in all the other elections? Fuck them. Then when someone is elected, we expect everything to be fixed overnight. Perfectly.

I am also massively tired of Bernie bros lecturing everyone about the problems. I voted Bernie in the primary and I'm saying that. Just because this is Caleb and Colby's first year, like yah, in Oberlin and they've just discovered politics doesn't mean that it's everyone else's first time.

I'm sure everyone on the Guild is pretty familiar with the dude that thinks they're some kind of freakin' enlightened genius because they're the smartest person at their dinner table, right? (because they come to the Guild) These guys are like that.

I could go on, but yeah, pretty done with this shit show. Probably early voting today. Then I can tune out early.

<Snipped quote by ArenaSnow>

Welcome to the land where everyone watched the Super Bowl by the millions but suddenly aren't interested in TV once politics or literally anything important comes one. This is honestly one factor of why I think we just need to get rid of major league sports and erase that shit entirely.

What an ignorant thing to say. You can say the spew about any other form of entertainment, not just the Super Bowl or major league sports.

'I think we just need to get rid of Hollywood films and erase that shit entirely.'

'I think we just need to get rid of Game of Thrones and erase that shit entirely.'

'I think we just need to get rid of video games and erase that shit entirely.'

Y'know, cuz they're not 'important things' like politics?

<Snipped quote by ClocktowerEchos>

What an ignorant thing to say. You can say the idiotic spew about any other form of entertainment, not just the Super Bowl or major league sports.

'I think we just need to get rid of Hollywood films and erase that shit entirely.'

'I think we just need to get rid of Game of Thrones and erase that shit entirely.'

'I think we just need to get rid of video games and erase that shit entirely.'

Y'know, cuz they're not 'important things' like politics?

Last I checked, Hollywood/EA/GRRM didn't require cities to build multimillion if not billion dollar massive fuck stadiums to get a taste of the entertainment. And its not just one stadium either, some sports cannot share a playing field by design (good luck playing soccer on a ice hockey rink or using a football field for basketball).

I find it hard to believe that a netflex subscription or a movie ticket or a gaming computer will ever come close to that of the price and upkeep of a sportsball team. Not to mention that all three of those things you mentioned, aren't funded and supported by governments. Cities and states pour thousands if not millions of dollars into these things instead of putting it somewhere like, I dunno, education, social welfare, infrastructure, hospitals, law enforcement. I can't imagine that having a 5 different sports teams would be better than getting homeless people off the street or ensuring kids get a decent education.

Ever hear the term "bread and circus"? To me, sportsball is just that in modern times, only there's five circuses and not enough bread.

Trump may say some crazy shit, but at least he isn't a corrupt power hungry psycho.

Um, I don't know if you've been watching the news but that is exactly what he is.

I hope Hillary wins. Hillary has done nothing worse than whatever the hell kind of person any of us voted for in the last election. The only difference is, she's been caught. Politicians do screwed up shit all of the time.

Trump on the other hand, just has no silver lining. At least Hillary has policies that can help America. Say what you will about her morals (and believe me, I'm right there with you. I don't enjoy voting for Hillary) but she knows how to do things, and not just for her own benefit, but for America. Trump is just...a complete immoral, psycho, unintelligent, corrupt, sexist, racist, joke.

I cannot believe anyone can look at them both and go "I'll vote Trump." Hillary has flaws (some of them quite illegal), but Trump IS a flaw.

I cannot believe anyone can look at them both and go "I'll vote Trump." Hillary has flaws (some of them quite illegal), but Trump IS a flaw.

And your logic is flawed. I could just as easily say "I cannot believe anyone can look at them both and vote Hillary" and the argument has equal substance to yours.

Here's an exercise for you: search "1986 Ellis Island Medal of Honor", "Barbara Res", "Oprah Winfrey 1988 Donald Trump Interview", "Donald Trump's 100 Day Plan", or "Wikileaks".

When you predicate your argument on "morals versus ethics" and then you pick morals, you are failing democratic values. If you can open your eyes to the truth about Trump and Clinton and still choose Clinton then I have no pity for you. I can understand an ignorant support of Clinton but if someone were to do their research and still find favor in her then something is fundamentally wrong with their personality traits.