@j8cobMy logic isn't flawed. Trumps policies are no real policies at all (look at the first 100 days). They're unfactual and sheer propaganda. Hillary knows how to run a country, and she'll be careful on how to run it because everyone has their eyes on her from these scandals. Trump is not fit for a marriage, let alone the white house.

@POOHEAD189 Actions speak louder than words, and Benghazi just screams in my ear. There is no way I'd support Hillary after that, you don't fucking leave Americans to die when there's a chance to save them.

@The Dow Dragon

@POOHEAD189

Whatever dude, I'm just glad I don't have to vote, because these choices are shit on a shit sandwich dipped in shit.

@The Dow DragonNo argument there tbh.

@j8cobMy logic isn't flawed. Trumps policies are no real policies at all (look at the first 100 days). They're unfactual and sheer propaganda. Hillary knows how to run a country, and she'll be careful on how to run it because everyone has their eyes on her from these scandals. Trump is not fit for a marriage, let alone the white house.

I don't think you'd know what a "policy" is if it hit you in the face, considering you looked at some policies and decided they aren't actually policies. I don't think I'm going to waste my time trying to teach a monkey politics and history either so have fun with your ideology. Vote for whoever you want. Clearly you want a war-mongering psychopath that arms our enemies and gives away State secrets. I guess everyone has their poison.

@j8cobMy logic isn't flawed. Trumps policies are no real policies at all (look at the first 100 days). They're unfactual and sheer propaganda. Hillary knows how to run a country, and she'll be careful on how to run it because everyone has their eyes on her from these scandals. Trump is not fit for a marriage, let alone the white house.

I'm pretty sure someone whose first reaction to a critic is 'can't we drone this guy' is not fit to lead a country. Also, I seem to remember that her husband was involved in a big scandal involving her marriage, do you remember that too? Furthermore, most of the criticism being given about Trump can be immediately turned around and said about Hillary as well.





Anyway, I read some of Trumps policies, on his website, you know, where you can get relevant information on policies. They're very similar to most European policies. I honestly don't know how you can see a propaganda thing in it but hey, whatever.

Also, you should read a bit about policies. Seems like you're unaware of what they are.

Trump is a racist, right? [+]

I was confused by that photo because, like, I didn't know who it was supposed to be. If you squint he looks kinda sorta like Bill, albeit he doesn't have the right eyes, and his teeth are all wrong. But that definitely isn't Hillary, since this photo looks to be 40~ years old, and that woman also looks to be 40~, which doesn't quite add up. Considering, at roughly the time of this photograph, they'd look like this. (She is wearing an upholstery jacket, which can only mean one of two things: this is the seventies, or it is star trek.)

But shit, I dunno, black face could make you look different enough to fool me, so I had to look it up. And yeh, it's bullshit. Which makes me feel relieved that I can still recognize faces.

Anyway, regarding policy, a lot of Trump's 100 days policy speech stuff is pretty standard Republican election year populism. To anybody actually wanting to see what everybody above is name-calling each other about, here is the outline (and this is straight from his campaign, so don't call me a main stream media jew pls).

Following the speech, the Trump campaign distributed a press release, denoting each specific new proposal:

Therefore, on the first day of my term of office, my administration will immediately pursue the following six measures to clean up the corruption and special interest collusion in Washington, DC:

FIRST, propose a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress;
SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health);
THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated;
FOURTH, a 5 year-ban on White House and Congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service;
FIFTH, a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government;
SIXTH, a complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections

On the same day, I will begin taking the following 7 actions to protect American workers:

FIRST, I will announce my intention to renegotiate NAFTA or withdraw from the deal under Article 2205
SECOND, I will announce our withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership
THIRD, I will direct my Secretary of the Treasury to label China a currency manipulator
FOURTH, I will direct the Secretary of Commerce and U.S. Trade Representative to identify all foreign trading abuses that unfairly impact American workers and direct them to use every tool under American and international law to end those abuses immediately
FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars’ worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal.
SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forward
SEVENTH, cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate change programs and use the money to fix America’s water and environmental infrastructure

Additionally, on the first day, I will take the following five actions to restore security and the constitutional rule of law:

FIRST, cancel every unconstitutional executive action, memorandum and order issued by President Obama
SECOND, begin the process of selecting a replacement for Justice Scalia from one of the 20 judges on my list, who will uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States
THIRD, cancel all federal funding to Sanctuary Cities
FOURTH, begin removing the more than 2 million criminal illegal immigrants from the country and cancel visas to foreign countries that won’t take them back
FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered extreme vetting.

Like I said, pretty standard, or predictable in that we've heard Trump say it before. It's conservatism in a nut shell though, with something taken from every middle American Republican's ad campaign all across the country. But the one that really sticks out to me is the Second, the Federal Hiring Freeze. Which is weird and exciting for me, a federal employee.

So where I work, we do a lot of season hiring every year, where basically a shit load of people are brought in around tax season to deal with the work-load and the ones that are actually good are kept on. This is because the work available is inherently seasonal, being that this is the IRS and all the income tax returns come in around April 15th. This hiring process is done January through February in waves. Inauguration day is January 20th, so in theory a quick institution of this freeze could cull half of the necessary new employees.

The implication is that we would be insanely understaffed, which is fun to imagine (this is assuming a grown up doesn't spoil it and lead Trump by the hand once he is in office to make sure he doesn't do this sort of thing.) For me, it would be hella overtime. I mean assloads of overtime. I'd be getting so fuckin' paid! I mean, realistically people wouldn't be getting their tax returns for a looong time, but in the mean time I get to rake in that fuckin' time-and-a-half 60 hours a week shit. I've been wanting to go on vacation to the east coast sometime when I could save up the money, and this would make it easy.

Sure, I wouldn't sleep much, but who can sleep when the American Tax Payer wants to reward me for having had the foresight to get a federal job before 2017?

@Vilageidiotx on the photo, good point and I stand corrected.

As for the policies, I don't think they're that insane. For instance the 'China is a currency manipulator' thing has been known and has been 'proven' true numerous times.

Also, his withdrawal of UN funds for climate change is smart. Flint was a disaster. Perhaps it's a smart move of him to fix that shit. IDK, I don't really think all these are insane as said before, nor are they propaganda.

Most of them also aren't really policies, lol.

@Vilageidiotx on the photo, good point and I stand corrected.

As for the policies, I don't think they're that insane. For instance the 'China is a currency manipulator' thing has been known and has been 'proven' true numerous times.

Also, his withdrawal of UN funds for climate change is smart. Flint was a disaster. Perhaps it's a smart move of him to fix that shit. IDK, I don't really think all these are insane as said before, nor are they propaganda.

Most of them also aren't really policies, lol.

They aren't really insane so much as tone deaf, and that is hit and miss. I actually agree with some of them, in that I think we are rushing into TPP, and controlling lobbyists is not a bad idea even if he makes it sound like they are a group you can just sorta fire. Like I said, the Federal Government freeze is the one that jumps out at me, and only because I am in the trenches there and know why it is dumb.

I don't think it is completely unfair to call it propaganda (some of it is, in the sense that some of it is there to create a narrative that favors Trump. His promises are worded in a way that makes him sound like a crusading hero rather than presenting problems as they truly are, especially important since Trump tends to drown when he gets into details.) It might be clearer to call them "Campaign promises", because as a populist that is what he is dealing in. If you're Joe Schmuck and you really think government employees literally do nothing but stare at the ceiling and collect pay checks, then sure, that plans sounds great (incidentally a narrative Joe Schmuck likes because it strokes his own ego, making him think he is really the hard worker and everybody else needs to be made like him). But in reality government jobs are just jobs, where people are hired to do work that needs to be done. His approach is gobbledygook that would mostly force managers to bend over backwards for employees they already have, thus making the government employee stereotype more true as we get loads of overtime and a free hand to be shitty because we can't be replaced. Absolutely useless policy, but it looks good on a piece of paper because it paints a picture of an entire field of employment corrupt all the way to the root that only Trump can fix.

And that tone-deaf approach to policy tells me that Trump isn't a Ross Perot with charts and graphs giving us a real, detailed list of whats and hows. Trump is dealing in paper-thin populism, suggesting he is either 1: A common politician, promising shit just to get in office, with no real plan to do any of it once he comes in, or 2: A guy who has no clue what he is doing. And honestly I don't really know with him because I don't really understand his angle. Like, I don't know why he wants to be president, considering he didn't really follow the cursus honorum and came entirely out of left field (or, uh, right field). If he is just in there to exercise power for his own interests and rob the bank like every other politician out there, then he's probably number 1. But if this is literally an ego thing, number 2 is entirely possible too. He's the type of public figure who is hard to read because his main skill is being a celebrity, so it is hard to tell what is really him, and what is just him maintaining his celebrity-ness

Now I have to say like I've said before; I have no dog in this race. I don't like Hillary. I just also happen to not like Trump. For different reasons, but there it stands.

The truth is that I don't really like both candidates, but I will be voting for Trump rather than Clinton. Clinton wants to put a no-fly zone over Syria which will raise tensions between both Russia and America. If a no-fly zone happens and Russia disobeys it, then we could have ourselves a third world war or another Cuban Missile Crisis. I hope to God that Clinton thinks hard before doing something stupid that could cause us the entire planet. Plus, she hasn't changed her views on gay marriage as she's still privately against it thanks to Wikileaks for leaking that email.

Trump needs to shut up and mature up before he pisses one of America's allies off. I understand that he doesn't have a political background. That's why he must get cabin members and others that know about politics to aid Mr. Trump before he fucks something up and dooms us. Maybe once he enters the Oval Office (if he wins), he might realize that being President is a serious job and he needs to stop his twitter wars. I don't know.

If we have to pick between those two, I can't wait until the Election of 2020 has in store for us.

The truth is that I don't really like both candidates, but I will be voting for Trump rather than Clinton. Clinton wants to put a no-fly zone over Syria which will raise tensions between both Russia and America. If a no-fly zone happens and Russia disobeys it, then we could have ourselves a third world war or another Cuban Missile Crisis. I hope to God that Clinton thinks hard before doing something stupid that could cause us the entire planet. Plus, she hasn't changed her views on gay marriage as she's still privately against it thanks to Wikileaks for leaking that email.

Trump needs to shut up and mature up before he pisses one of America's allies off. I understand that he doesn't have a political background. That's why he must get cabin members and others that know about politics to aid Mr. Trump before he fucks something up and dooms us. Maybe once he enters the Oval Office (if he wins), he might realize that being President is a serious job and he needs to stop his twitter wars. I don't know.

If we have to pick between those two, I can't wait until the Election of 2020 has in store for us.

You don't have to vote for either. Let me point you in the direction of your alternatives:

Evan McMullin
Jill Stein
Gary Johnson

If your intentions to vote for Trump is to break from the political mainstream, then you'd be serving your conscious better voting for the three other alternatives in the race. True, you may argue that "they're third party, so it doesn't matter". But if you dislike either or as much as you say you do: then any of these three have to be ideologically better and more personable than Trump or Clinton.

You might also say, "Well any vote not for X is for Y". But that's a tag-line the Republicans and Democrats drag through the dirt to scare people into voting into the two-party system. The reality of the situation is more that if enough people of either camp vote for any of the others then it'll sap their voter base away and cast the election into too much uncertainty for them to be comfortable; since we haven't had any major third - or fourth - parties in this country since its birth or even in forever.

The next strategic alternative would be to vote your real party on down-ballot elections to counter-act a vote for Trump so as to populate Congress with representatives and senators that will make the reality of his - or reverse for Clinton - difficult to do. What they say on the trail is not an absolute reality, and truth is they have to go through Congress first to make any significant gains in any field. If you think Trump will break the back of "career politics" but still don't like his actual policies; but will support him for the former then the best you can do if possible is to do your part to do both: vote for the norm-break, but put a strong check and balancing individual into Congress to water down or block the extreme measures.

@Dinh AaronMkI'm an independent so I agree that third party isn't necessarily wasted usually, but I think the only time it's not wasted is if they have a big following near the beginning of a campaign. It's way too late in the game for it to effect anything really, atm.

@POOHEAD189

You're fooling yourself. Deny both the Big Parties if you really hate them at this time. Or the alternative is to play real politik: vote Trump to fuck Hillary, dem down ballot to fuck Trump.

Secure the local elections for the Glorious Revolution.

@Dinh AaronMkI'm not fooling myself. Just seeing this without prejudice.

@POOHEAD189

Pretty sure you're just thinking what they want you to think, and they have been chanting. You let the Party sink in early on, or after the primaries.

"A VOTE FOR THIRD PARTY IS A VOTE FOR THE OTHER".

Whip some shit up. Lay a ground-game for 2020 at least.

Trump needs to shut up and mature up before he pisses one of America's allies off. I understand that he doesn't have a political background. That's why he must get cabin members and others that know about politics to aid Mr. Trump before he fucks something up and dooms us. Maybe once he enters the Oval Office (if he wins), he might realize that being President is a serious job and he needs to stop his twitter wars. I don't know.

This is sorta the main thing that worries me about the Trump support now. I get if you don't want to vote for traditional glad-handing politicians like Hillary, but at the same time is it wise to vote for a guy who you believe is literally incapable of doing the job and will require assistance? And is Trump's a demeanor you can be certain will even listen to his cabinet? Like, the guy is seventy years old, he is who he is, you can't really vote for a person hoping they'll become the person you want them to be once they get behind the resolute desk. Like I said, I totally get not voting for Hillary because I'm also not voting for her, but there is also...

@Dinh AaronMkI'm not fooling myself. Just seeing this without prejudice.

...voting third party as a vote of no confidence. That's what it is. Saying "I have an opinion and am willing to vote, but I will not vote for who you are running."

McMullin, Stein, and Johnson. You got choices. They'll never become president, but they'll stick in the craw of those who fucked up the choices this year.

@Dinh AaronMkNo my friend, it's just literal math and statistics. I hope a third party candidate wins someday, but Gary Johnson is the most popular one, at 10%, and even then, his policies aren't that good.

It's literally like you needing to choose between Coke and Dr. Pepper, and you choose one and are standing at the line just about to check out. Then your friend goes "WHY DON'T WE GET 7 UP!?!?!?!?" and you're like "dude we're at the check out line. I'm not going back."

If 3rd was gonna win, they shoulda made a bigger showing of themselves a year ago, back when it mattered. Though, Bernie Sanders kinda sucked up everybody that didn't want to vote for Trump or Hilary so, maybe 3rd wouldn't have done well this time regardless. But like I said, Gary Johnson isn't a good choice anyway, from what I have heard.

...voting third party as a vote of no confidence. That's what it is. Saying "I have an opinion and am willing to vote, but I will not vote for who you are running."

McMullin, Stein, and Johnson. You got choices. They'll never become president, but they'll stick in the craw of those who fucked up the choices this year.

It's not about 'sticking it to the man.' It's about making sure america has a commander in chief that won't be terrible for it.

It's not about 'sticking it to the man.' It's about making sure america has a commander in chief that won't be terrible for it.

Then you have a preference and are playing coy. If you like Trump or Hillary, then just come out and say you like them. If you don't like either of them, then you aren't really making sure we have a good President if you are voting for somebody you think would be a bad President.

@VilageidiotxI already said I'm voting Hillary, yet don't like her and am not a democrat. My only reason is because I think Trump has all of Hillary's flaws, and is also inexperienced and racist. That doesn't change the fact I am an independent and don't like Hillary.