Again, that's just subplot stuff. That'll be things like if the White Fang wants to deal with Gren again, or something along those lines. Which I guess is fine since it's important to Gren, but who'd honestly give a shit about what happens to him if the problem doesn't drag them in with it?

And that second bit is also the other reason I'd favor an overarching plot. A subplot would have to actually to involve others for it to be relevant, otherwise I'd just look like a douche having Gren fuck around by himself if no one is interested. An overarching plot however will happen regardless if there are players who take part, and it will affect them whether they choose to ignore it or not. While I'm always in favor of making things player centric, the world does not revolve around our characters. Lives go on regardless if we're paying attention to it or not, and the spontaneous of when it all comes to head sounds more interesting than picking apart our own character's flaws or an excuse to have a empathetic SoL chapter.

Not only that but with that Bianca subplot, again that's more relevant to Bianca and those who are friends with her. Which is fine because back than we still had (And I think we're still using?) that point-based system, and it's not exactly all inclusive. You can debate if it's just cooperation or bad story telling if we had say, Sapphire insert herself into Bianca's cruise subplot just because Seraph was hypothetically interested in it.

An overarching plot gives those of us without friends or simply can't keep track of all these private story stuff something to do. And if we at some point want to do something more focused about our characters, than sure we can make a subplot. I just don't want to have nothing to do but subplots and stories that are extremely character focused.

I don't have any strong opinions about moving to a new thread or staying on this one. As for things I'd like to see in this RP, I do admit a more centralized plot would be nice. Now with our teams looking rather broken due to everyone we lost, I don't really care for the traditional "Go do missions with your team" thing we did before. At the very least I'd like the ability to go on quest or jobs with people aside from our own teammates, just so we could fight alongside other characters.

I'd also like to try and redo Yue's CS. I don't really like who she is now because I had to change major parts of her to satisfy the previous GM's. I'm hoping the new management would be more interested in letting players enjoy themselves than to make competitive PvP characters.

This isn't an anarchy dood, we can't just let people have fun willy-nilly.

@Ryonara Feel free to make changes to your character! Of course, top-tier levels of broken would be a bit much, but I think we can certainly be more lenient with looking over ideas.

That doesn't mean it will be guaranteed since balance is still necessary, but I'm certain you can enhance your character's image and personality.

It's mainly making Yue a more competent maid and emotionally stable. Also to make her semblance not eat her own HP just to use.

This isn't an anarchy dood, we can't just let people have fun willy-nilly.

Darn, guess I have to delete Anna

An overarching plot however will happen regardless if there are players who take part, and it will affect them whether they choose to ignore it or not. While I'm always in favor of making things player centric, the world does not revolve around our characters. Lives go on regardless if we're paying attention to it or not, and the spontaneous of when it all comes to head sounds more interesting than picking apart our own character's flaws or an excuse to have a empathetic SoL chapter.

This isn't a plus.

A subplot is as relevant as the people involved want to make it, but the point is that that is a choice. Making a plot that affects people whether or not they want it is a poor way to make people want to stick around.

Whether or not what you do is relevant to everyone else should be irrelevant. In and of itself. That's just ego.

have you tried having friends

<Snipped quote by Lucius Cypher>

This isn't a plus.

A subplot is as relevant as the people involved want to make it, but the point is that that is a choice. Making a plot that affects people whether or not they want it is a poor way to make people want to stick around.

Whether or not what you do is relevant to everyone else should be irrelevant. In and of itself. That's just ego.

Please don't escalate the discussion, I don't think any of us want this to turn in to a full blown argument. Your last statements were out of line and not civil.

My counter argument is this, the whole point of an overarching plot is that it throws some previously unforseen twists into play that we, as our characters, have to adapt to. That said, that doesn't mean that major things will happen to the characters that the players don't agree with, but its not wholly up to us. The GMs should ultimately run things and nearly everything short of grevious wounds or death is within their right. The players do still have a choice in the matter but what you are describing is anarchy, or at the very least, a bunch of disconnected stories that take place independently of one another that just happen to be in the same chat room. Hell, your choices already do and should affect other players, from the personal level, say an angry word to another, to the plot level. Saying that your choices are irrelevant to others is incorrect because that is how players interact.

Edit: Another point of a plot is to make a reason for the players to get personaly invested. Watching a story unfold and wondering what will happen next is a great way to keep people around.

<Snipped quote by Krayzikk>

Please don't escalate the discussion, I don't think any of us want this to turn in to a full blown argument. Your last statements were out of line and not civil.

Nah, they were pretty on point I think.

I'm always a fan of escalating things. Why seek a compromise when you can win it all?

<Snipped quote by Lucius Cypher>

This isn't a plus.

A subplot is as relevant as the people involved want to make it, but the point is that that is a choice. Making a plot that affects people whether or not they want it is a poor way to make people want to stick around.

Whether or not what you do is relevant to everyone else should be irrelevant. In and of itself. That's just ego.

It's not about making people stick around so much as giving them something to do for those of us who don't otherwise have a personal investment in other people's subplots, or vice versa. Call it ego or selfish if you want, but I'd like to be able to get involved in something that doesn't require having a preexisting familiarity with someone. I'd just want to make sure that what I'm about to do is actually going to be big or important, and not just some one-off thing that's going to be shelved and forgotten because no one cares about it.

I'd gladly just drop in on whatever story or plot you all might be having, regardless if it makes any sense or if you even want someone like me involved, but out of courtesy I don't. But that does leave me in a predicament where there isn't anything I can do aside from twiddle my thumbs, hope someone takes interest in me, or stir shit up myself. Which is basically a subplot that I apply beyond just my own character but as many people as I can, which is essentially an overarching plot but without GM oversight.

have you tried having friends

I did. Didn't end well. They're all gone and now I'm missing a lot more stuff.

<Snipped quote by Crimson Raven>

Nah, they were pretty on point I think.

Calling him out for being egotistical when they were simply stating their opinion was rude and wrong. There was nothing egotistical in what they said.

Even if they were, calling them out for it like that is going to cause tempers to flare even more.

If we were subtle about our opinions we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place, @Crimson Raven. I appreciate your concern. But change won't happen if we don't hurt someone's feelings and escalate things to a destructive level.

I'm always a fan of escalating things. Why seek a compromise when you can win it all?

You too, don't goad them on. Whatever your personal beef with them is, try to set it aside. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't the first time you two have butted heads, is it?

Edit: I saw your last post. Why don't we save that as a last resort and keep the peace talks going? Its been pretty well so far, and since I really started it, I would hate to have people alienated on my account.

<Snipped quote by Krayzikk>

I'd gladly just drop in on whatever story or plot you all might be having, regardless if it makes any sense or if you even want someone like me involved, but out of courtesy I don't. But that does leave me in a predicament where there isn't anything I can do aside from twiddle my thumbs, hope someone takes interest in me, or stir shit up myself. Which is basically a subplot that I apply beyond just my own character but as many people as I can, which is essentially an overarching plot but without GM oversight.

Right here is a large problem with what you are saying, @Krayzikk. I've tried to do that more then once and it didn't work out well, my character just ended up being redundant, irrelevant, and an annoyance to the other players. So I stuck out my own subplot, which ultimately worked out well but it was lonely.

Jesus you guys make it sound like it's hard to make friends with people here and start doing stuff.

It's not.

Jesus you guys make it sound like it's hard to make friends with people here and start doing stuff.

It's not.

See, that is not helping. The old "why can't everyone just get along?" always comes up. Well, unfortunately when you are dealing with people, it doesn't happen. What does happen is a lot of discussion and conflict in a small scale and large scale. People have different opinions and different ideals. When they disagree, they clash, with words, or with actions. That is the only way we know how to resolve our differences.

I'd like to think that we are friends. Maybe this is ego, but I'd like to think that I'm friends with all of you. Friends still fight though. The difference between when friends fight and when strangers fight, is friends make up afterward, no matter the outcome.

Ok.

@Crimson Raven

I honestly don't remember. This isn't the first time we've squared off, and certainly not just with Krayzikk. Regardless it doesn't really change anything.

Without a central plot or equivalent, subplots are inherently lead by ego, or rather, whoever is the most popular at the time. A GM can offer guidance and oversight, but if they're not going to make any semblance of a central story than those of us who have the misfortune of disagreeing with other players are going to get shafted, or simply forced to do as Crimson mention and stick with their own subplot and hope that someone takes an interest in you. Because as Krayzikk said, subplots shouldn't be relevant to others, which gives everyone a convenient reason not to care about each other. Regardless if your subplot is as important as somehow getting your hands on some sort of WMD or as menial as going to the beach.

@Abillioncats

It's not hard to make friends, it's just easier to make enemies. Usually just by doing stuff by yourself.

Keep the personal, edgy shit out and keep it professional. I make the mistakes of getting too personal frequently ( even recently ), but this talk of ego and "destructive feedback" or whatever the hell it is can stop.

For now, we're most likely not going to change too much because the general consensus is that we should focus on character development while thinking of bigger ideas that wouldn't be simple missions. I respect both sides' opinions, but realistically speaking, IC's been abonimally slow- something I know I should fix ASAP with Write's help. Admittedly, I think one of the biggest faults of the old missions was that they took forever and amounted to a small-ass development because they were technically supposed to be short missions. We should try fixing that and see the effects of a more effective IC in general before deciding whether or not we should make big changes.

We can also see to it that we can rectify any problems people are having with nothing to do, because honestly, you just need to ask. Bias can exist, but it's nothing impossible to fix as long as we try working from others' perspectives too.

tl;dr Lets wait longer before we decide whether or not we need major changes, and focus on delivering an organized and more proper version of the current "missions" system. As non-linear as it is, this is both a game and a story that's different from most RPs. Let's treat it with its uniqueness properly for now.

Lugu was building some sort of central plot, I even made six profiles for NPCs for that. But then he just stoped communicating and left.

I should just use those NPCs for a subplot honestly.