Might get some hate for this one.


This might change with the release of the recent remaster, but this has been my favorite Final Fantasy for years. It's an incredible game (just like everything Ivalice and Matsuno), and I wish more than anything that it'd been allowed to reach its full potential as per Matsuno's original vision. I think it would've been praised as a masterpiece. Even still, it's wonderful, and I think unfairly maligned. It strove to do something different with the Final Fantasy series, and I think it succeeded. It has incredible art design, and some of the best graphics on the PS2; great music by Hitoshi Sakimoto, one of my favorite video game composers (I really hope that the remaster will change the perception that it had bad music); an incredible translation (seriously, the writing is so good) by Alexander O'Smith and perhaps the best dub in JRPG history (WARNING: Spoilers; a fascinating storyline about the consequences of vengeance; a massive world to explore; FUN as FUCK Hunt sidequests; and great gameplay (imo), the Gambit system was great, fuck the haters. The game has serious problems (pacing, sound design, lack of character development), but I still consider it a flawed masterpiece.


WARNING: SPOILERS
Don't get me wrong. I really, really enjoyed this game. I did. And it's certainly better than most JRPGs that've come out in the past few years. But I think people are seriously overhyping it, especially in terms of story. Okay, sure, the story is perfectly fine, serviceable; I enjoyed the ending, I enjoyed 9S in the latter half of the game, and I loved the sense of mystery and atmosphere in the first route. But...best video game story ever it is not. The writing, in my opinion, was very...cliche, visual novelesque, especially in terms of the romance. The game's attempts at philosophizing are...unfortunate. And while I love the concepts and the scale (if nothing else the game excels at amazing spectacle and setpieces), it didn't wow me...mostly because I've read/watched things with strong existentialist themes that were, well, far better executed than in Automata. That might sound somewhat condescending; I'm not trying to tell people who love this game to read a fucking book, but...at the same time, I think that Automata's attempt at existentialism is just kind of trite and not very well done. The reason doesn't necessarily lie in the writing, I think, but rather in the lack of connection I felt with the characters. The relationship between 2B and 9S just wasn't believeable imo. I didn't feel any emotion for their plight, I didn't feel anything towards A2...the characters aroused absolutely nothing in me, though 9S' "fall" was really good. I know that a large part of this is because, as per usual, Yoko Taro relegates the most important material regarding his world to side stories, novellas, concert scripts, what have you. And like, imo, that's fine if what you're writing about reveals information that's not ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to the central plot and characters. But in the case of Automata, the most important shit is in side material, most of which is either mediocrely translated or mediocrely written. I just couldn't believe that I was supposed to feel something for 9S and 2B and their """"""""love"""""""" when I knew next to nothing about their pasts. It would've enriched the game, and my enjoyment of it, had that been accessible IN-GAME, as is a lot of content regarding the world. I have no problem with important shit being in books. Morrowind, for instance, basically requires you to delve into the in-game books to figure out what the hell is going on. But Automata? No. It just feels like a sucker punch, and on the part of Taro, kind of presumptuous. "Har har har, I'm so mysterious, I'm so zany and whacky, I'm so non-conventional, my games are so intricate and multifaceted, there's 297842348927349 endings, hehehe, so crazy amirite?" It's just become a meme at this point. In NieR it worked, because that game really made you feel invested in the characters. You wanted to know more about the world, so you really sought out the side materials, because you were hungry for more. Because you felt engrossed. I think that Automata commits a cardinal sin in that it believes that by making the characters go through emotions, the audience must feel emotions as well. Because I'm denied crucial information about the characters, there's nothing anchoring me to the world, nothing that drags me in, other than the mystery of what is really going on, which I think ultimately doesn't really come to much; it got dispelled far too quickly, and in an unsatisfying manner to boot.

That said, I think it's a good game. I'd rate it an 8.5/10 at the very least. I loved the gameplay, the atmosphere, the huge setpieces (I mean, come on, giant boxing robots) the MUSIC, the art design and graphics, the side quests. I just was pretty disappointed in the story.

I just couldn't believe that I was supposed to feel something for 9S and 2B and their """"""""love"""""""" when I knew next to nothing about their pasts.

Well that's because it wasn't love. And considering the reveal and the whole reasoning behind certain dialog in ending A/B and the reveals therein, you know exactly enough about their past to make the entire back half of the game much more resonant. The most important stuff isn't in supplemental material unless you're talking specifically about A2's backstory which is contained within a stage play, but even then that mostly just tells you why she's so done with the Bunker and such and her seemingly out of place nightmare scene. Not once did the game deny players critical information about the characters. It just didn't spoon feed it directly and had enough faith in the player to accept more subtle characterization and themes. The supplemental material for NieR gave more information and background about the character of Nier as well as its world that were arguably the more interesting parts of NieR's/Drakengard's lore. Yoko Taro has an interesting take on game design but he's not pulling a Bungie and leaving out literally all the interesting stuff. He's weird and slightly insane but he's not stupid.

Ending Y is the true ending anyway.

Don't take my avatar/signature as some sort of bias towards the game tho.

@Fabricant451 Fair enough I suppose. I guess that I just missed some of the stuff about 2B and 9S's relationship in-game, or if I did, it just didn't resonate with me enough to make it sufficiently believable. Yes the characterization is subtle (in the case of A2, subtle enough to make it non-existent), but I thought that the thing that was hidden behind the subtlety just wasn't all that compelling, or not very well written. 9S I do think is a pretty good character and probably the best-written in the whole game, but 2B and 9S just seem so flat to me. I thought Operator had a deeper character than 2B (okay only half-memeing here). In general I just think, subtlety in-and-of-itself is fine--in fact, in most Japanese literature it's the name of the game--but I thought that in Automata it wasn't executed very well. Ending C truly made me re-evaluate my opinion of the game. Like, of course the whole "humans are ded" twist was telegraphed from early on, but like the back-to-back gut punches really, then this moment were really awesome. Maybe I'm so disappointed because endings D and E didn't deliver that much on the promise of ending C...Like it felt like it was building to something, and then you get some really cool stuff in the tower, and 2B's descent into despair, and then it just kind of ends. To be fair I never got ending Y so maybe there's stuff that I've missed.

I think there's a fine line between subtlety and poor writing, and Automata straddles it. I believe that it could've been an overall better story if there had just been greater focus on the characters. That's my biggest problem with Taro tbh, he has fascinating worldbuilding and great concepts, but some of his writing and characters are just really cliche (NieR is a victim of this too, though I still love that game). I definitely liked the game though and I recognize that I'm probably thinking too much into it, a minority opinion, and maybe a bit "elitist". Not trying to come off that way, and you make some very valid points in your post.

Ending Y is the ending that concludes Nier's story.

So it's the best ending by default.

Oooh I love talking about this type of stuff. I could go on and on. But I'll stick to one game each.

Underrated: Beyond Good and Evil

I dont mean to be that guy, but wasn't this game very highly praised?

@Garattee It depends on how you look at it. When it came out it was very underrated, but recently it's gotten to be popular, especially because of the sequel that was supposed to come out. But now they changed gears and are making a prequel instead. However, it had a cult following for a bit, but in terms of overall popularity, I would still consider it underrated.

Dream fall chapters

<Snipped quote by FantasyChic>

I dont mean to be that guy, but wasn't this game very highly praised?

Only on the internet and even then only among a niche crowd. It wasn't until the HD Re-release a couple years ago that people talked about it in some capacity other than pointing to it as an example of a game with a female protagonist and it wasn't until Ubisoft flat out lied and said "Nah we ain't showing BGE 2" that it re-entered the minds of people. It was reviewed well critically but was a commercial disaster. But that said, critically praised games can still be underrated since I'm assuming the metric isn't necessarily 'games critics didn't like but you did' since I mean like...Titanfall 2 and Final Fantasy 6 were mentioned in the topic.

Dream fall chapters

underrated or overrated?

<Snipped quote by DeadDrop>

underrated or overrated?

Under

Underrated, I have a few on my list

Clive Barker's Jericho

Were the gaming mechanics clunky, I guess. I never experienced that much trouble with it. The fact you could switch to different team members and use their powers for different situations was cool. The concept and story was cool. And dat cliffhanger ending tho. I want more of this game and everyone just dissed on this game, which I personally loved the visuals, the story, the everything.

Darkness 2

I fucking love this game. I just. There was so many things that felt right about this game. And it did poorly in sales. The studio went out of business and everyone else seemed to disliked the cliffhanger ending. IDK why because Darkness 1 was already established to be a good game, Darkness 2 polished everything right with Darkness 1 and I was forgiving of the cliffhanger ending because I would have bought the third game.

Kingdom's of Amular

From the visuals. To the storyline. The colors. The quest. The writing. It wasn't just your generic fantasy RPG. It was just a fun romp and I enjoyed traveling to the different worlds and the different places.

Two Worlds 2

I admire this company, yes was Two Worlds 2 kind of generic. Kind of, they did have fantasy alternate Japan and Africa. But I liked it. They were the company that fixed everything wrong with the first game and redeemed themselves, That's why I like this game so much. That's why I appreciate this game so much. Because the company took all the complaints, all the negative criticism and made their game better. We should have supported companies like this more. That is respectable. Two Worlds could have become something.

Overrated

Assassin Creed 1

I know know. What a hispters putting Assassin Creed on this list. But I am not even talking Assassin Creed every other game. I am talking the very first game when it first came out. I will never see the appeal of this game. It didn't stand out to me. It didn't capture me. The story was Okay. But Idk. Maybe it was because I was the jaded sci-fi guy who had seen this plot in Star Trek and other sci-fi franchises that some guy who relives his memories in a machine as a super cool assassin just seemed kind of lazy. I like what they are doing with the origins game. I might have been more forgiving if AC didn't try to be bigger than what it was. But it tried and it shows in the first game, this was their flagship of lacklusterness.

Underrated:

Skies of Arcadia

Back in 1999 - when Sega was still a somewhat reputable developer and possessed a modicum of creativity and passion for video games - a certain division of Sega decided that it would be an awesome idea to develop an RPG based around being pirates, not of the sea but of the sky - sky pirates, if you will. The result was a lighthearted, colourful and entertaining adventure with a plethora of happy-go-lucky characters who want nothing more than to roam the skies above the world.

Naturally it doesn't quite go that straightforward and it isn't long before our band of air-faring rogues (the Blue Rogues to be exact) are wrapped up in an adventure to save the world from the oppression of the Valuan Empire. Did I mention that the opening scene is more or less inspired by the beginning of Star Wars: A New Hope?



You also acquire your own ship to navigate the skies and can recruit an entire crew of characters, and eventually establish your own base of operations. One of the best RPGs that not many people played unfortunately, and one of the better creations to come from Sega. The sequel will never happen though.

Overrated:

I'll probably post something about this later when I'm not quite so lethargic, rest assured there's no shortage of titles to choose from.

Kind of surprised I did not mention this yet

Underrated (relative to popularity rather than how much people liked it)

Supreme Commander, the first one and it's expansion. An RTS from 2007 with Land, Air , and Naval forces. The relative strength of any given unit/structure is determined by which of the four Tiers it is in starting at T1 and progressing to T3 and the Experimental T4 units. The Three factions are similar in the first Tier, but the other technology branches offer unique units following the Doctrine of the specific faction. The resources are not fixed, rather fluctuating and generally increasing in rate over the match. Higher tiers grant more efficient resource gathering structures (generators for power and mass extractors for mass). Power is of little importance, as generators can be placed freely but there will be heavy contention in the mid game for the limited mass deposits. Time also becomes a minor resource as units and structures can be built or assisted by other engineering units in order to increase the speed of construction at the cost of draining resources faster. Why produce 3 light assault bots every minute when you can have one factory build twice as much in the same time? The only restricting factor is the rate you produce mass/energy and the time it takes for a unit to leave a factory upon being built. A fairly controversial tactic is to load up any transport aircraft with a couple of them light assault bots and harass the enemy engineers while trying to rush mass deposits with little protection. What's that? no, we are not going to attack from the ground like a fool. The LABs have the unique ability of having functional weapons even while being transported, you have just made a ghetto gunship. Next up, Naval units are particularly noted for having some of the strongest weapons outside of Tier 4 units, the crafty Cybrans noticed this and gave some of them legs effectively creating an amphibious fleet of death. The scale gets pretty epic too, almost cinematic when a few hundred units on both sides smash against each other till one is left standing. Lastly, in a fight between evenly matched opponents, where neither side is gaining much ground, there are the 'game ender' units. My favorite being the 'Yolona Oss' introduced in Forged Alliance. A T4 Experimental Missle Launcher that builds special missles so large, it requires two anti-nuclear missles to impact it before it is eliminated. Along with the fact that it builds not only Nukes on steroids, but in 1/8th of the time as a standard Strategic Missile Launcher. This means the enemy needs EIGHT anti-nuclear missle launchers constantly producing anti-nukes to counter one of these. The only downside is the massive time and resources required to build the launcher in the first place and the amount of energy it drains when producing one of its missiles.

I have played other RTS games like Starcraft or Company of Heroes, but this is one I regularly return to as the sheer scale is epic and it has some nice UI features that other games lack. UI features like the ability for a factory to repeat it's Que until stopped or for a transport to automatically ferry fresh recruits to the frontlines.

Here is one of my favorite videos to use to describe the sheer scale of the game. I was not kidding when I said each player had hundreds of units.

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as far as Overrated games, that would be a matter of opinion on my part. I've played a fair amount of good games that I did not enjoy for one reason or another. The Witcher 3 is one example. Good story, Good amount of content, but the combat system felt god-awful to me. Played it once, beat it, have not touched it since. Even when the DLC came out (and I have the season pass as I generally trust in my judgement) I have not played it besides that one time.

@Prawn Dude....Skies of Arcadia was the bomb! I would so love to play that game again...

Anyone ever played this gem?


I still own the guidebook to this day, though it's ratty as hell. Ogre Battle 64 had you taming beasts and recruiting troops to fight an insurrection against crown, as well as more nefarious foes later on...

Such a good tactics/strategy game!

Some Underrated Gamecube games

Killer 7

Need I say more. Not only is finding a copy of the game rare. It was just such a unique concept for a game.

Gheist

Is another I'd say I enjoyed a lot.

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind and its expansions are underrated. Now you might say, "The fuck are you talking about, Hank? Morrowind is highly regarded, received massive critical acclaim upon release and is constantly brought up as people's favorite game!" Yeah, I know all that -- but it's not enough.

Seriously, Morrowind was groundbreaking on so many levels and most of those are acknowledged, but it doesn't receive nearly enough attention for the esoteric mysticism, mythology, Dunmeri culture, deliberately self-contradicting narrative and sheer originality and creativity that it contains. Vvardenfell is the most engrossing and interesting fantasy world ever put to screen in any medium in the history of mankind and the conflict between the Sharmat, the Tribunal, and the Hortator (past and present) is unparalleled in RPG storytelling to this day. Even Bethesda themselves never lived up to this masterpiece of writing and gravitas.

Credit for most of that goes to Michael Kirkbridge, by the way, a completely insane but utterly riveting and brilliant writer who contributed heavily to the Morrowind project but left Bethesda after that.

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind and its expansions are underrated. Now you might say, "The fuck are you talking about, Hank? Morrowind is highly regarded, received massive critical acclaim upon release and is constantly brought up as people's favorite game!" Yeah, I know all that -- but it's not enough.

Seriously, Morrowind was groundbreaking on so many levels and most of those are acknowledged, but it doesn't receive nearly enough attention for the esoteric mysticism, mythology, Dunmeri culture, deliberately self-contradicting narrative and sheer originality and creativity that it contains. Vvardenfell is the most engrossing and interesting fantasy world ever put to screen in any medium in the history of mankind and the conflict between the Sharmat, the Tribunal, and the Hortator (past and present) is unparalleled in RPG storytelling to this day. Even Bethesda themselves never lived up to this masterpiece of writing and gravitas.

Credit for most of that goes to Michael Kirkbridge, by the way, a completely insane but utterly riveting and brilliant writer who contributed heavily to the Morrowind project but left Bethesda after that.

I absolutely agree. To me Morrowind really capture an "Alien" concept, without being so alien, it alienated its audience. [i swear I didn't do that on purpose] I liked Morrowind because at the time it was unique from all the other fantasy worlds out there.

I am also going to add and say I find Oblivion a little underrated as well. Now I know what some people are going to say. But I think Oblivion had some kind of finer balance of even making a generic fantasy setting feel unique and special and in its own universe that it felt different enough. The concepts were strange and I still regard Shivering Isles to be one of their best expansions besides the Morrowind ones. Shivering Isles to this day has a special place in my memory. I also found Oblivion had the perfect system to balance hard core players and the mainstream players.

But back to Morrowind. Morrowind is this wonderful magical place. That I crave. I wish more fantasy worlds would just me into an alien world and let me become immersed into its world. Without having to hand hold me into exposition. I want more fantasy that feels unique and individual. Like Morrowind did.

Like sure Shadows of Modor is an awesome bloody game, but its the same fantasy fair because Tolkein literally created the mainstream fantasy popularized today alongside DnD. And I like Dragon Age Inquisition, a lot.

But to me Fantasy always embodied, Fantasy. A world created by imagination that is near limitless and is only limited by what you imagining it to be.

Morrowind was that unique special gem. That I wish more fantasy games would strive to live up to.

Some Underrated Gamecube games

Killer 7

Need I say more. Not only is finding a copy of the game rare. It was just such a unique concept for a game.

I actually made an RP based around the concept of multiple assassins sharing one body.

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I actually made an RP based around the concept of multiple assassins sharing one body.

It seriously a great game. The game was so rare. I was lucky to even find the copy I did.

I would love to do a RP based on the concept of Killer 7.