Special thanks to [@Cynder] and @Grimhildr for kickstarting the process. Special thanks to everyone else that participated in a deliberation on how we can improve the guild. Your efforts are appreciated and valued, because only through discussing things can we reach new ideas and solutions to the problems that festered and continue to fester in RPGuild - as a community and as a forum.
This was how I started my thread to brainstorm suggestions and ideas with the community five months ago. Looking at the front page, it's easy to assume nothing has changed. After all, most of the front page is still the same (and the same goes for most other parts of the forum that is visible in one go). But how much has really changed, and how much of the priorities have actually been handled?
I have decided to do it this way, as it seemed to have better effects last time and discussion on discord seems impossible at this point in time. I will set out, once again, to do so within the boundaries of the rules as they are written down, and to do so within sense and reason, and above all, I will do so with the goal to include the community in this effort. If you are unaware of the topic from five months ago, I would strongly suggest reading at least the first two posts. Thank you.
Special thanks again to [@Cynder] and @Grimhildr for providing the basis for this thread and in part opening discussion.
Special thanks to @Nytem4re and @Briza for providing a proof-reading to improve the thread and wording.
Please keep these pointers in mind when discussing ideas.
o No flaming
o No ad hominem
o Act according to the Rules of the Guild and act according to the spirit of the rules, not the letter of the rules.
o Constructive criticism only, naming an issue is one thing, complaining and whining another
o Motivate your answers
o Try to think of solutions as well as problems
If we can all keep to these pointers, the discussion from here on forward should be pleasant and enlightening as opposed to a flamefest.
To avoid starting on a bad foot, I want to start with the things that have been completed. Then, I will move on to the 'partial' section where I will list things that are partially complete. Then the subjective section for 'subjective' things that I cannot answer in good faith because I believe I am biased. I will add my own opinions in hiders to avoid swaying people who aren't interested in what I think personally. Finally the things that aren't completed no matter how you look at it.
Keep in mind that these were user suggestions. The moderators are under no obligation to follow these. They were not to be seen as a checklist even if they have been called that by an administrator. Never the less it is strongly suggested that the moderators and admins look at these for ideas.
What has been completed:
Bear in mind these are direct quotes from previous thread, with both the priorities and regular suggestions sections being quoted, and as such there may be duplicates.
✓ PM system is considered 'top priority' as a deletion method for PM's is to be included ASAP
✓ Preferably a way to filter out mature 1x1's could be added which, at the height of escalation, could become it's own subforum
✓ Rules need to be rewritten to be more clear and less vague. What is 'Fonz cool'? 'Just don't be an asshole?' Too vague to reasonably use as rules.
✓ Someone or some group could write up a guide on how to GM and not kill their RP's.
✓ A karma system/blacklist system. Karma system was criticized for potentially ostracizing people for OOC reasons not related to roleplay.
✓ Make the existing fan-hosted discord into an official RPG discord by displaying it on the front page.
✓ More complicated captchas to help discourage the spambot plagues
✓ No trust in community to 'elect' moderators either. Popularity contest.
✓ A blacklist (off-site) for people that are known to ruin RP's with hostility and other problematic things.
✓ Report system fails because moderators constantly refer to the rules, but the rules state outdated concepts like 'pressing the report button' of which there is none. Rewrite the rules.
✓ Maintain the current system of simplicity that makes RPG feel 'like home' compared to other sites that 'try too hard'.
✓ PM System is horrid and needs to be revised. Deleting PM's is to be #1 priority for Mahz before doing anything else.
Although rudimentary at best and with it's fair share of flaws (namely the strange way deletion is handled + the way we get back accidentally deleted PM's) the deletion method is implemented and you can now effectively delete PM's. The mass deletion button is a nice touch.
✓ Preferably a way to filter out mature 1x1's could be added which, at the height of escalation, could become it's own subforum
The 18+ tag is in place and can be used to filter out mature 1x1's in theory. All that remains is to make the search function better so that we can actually use it.
✓ Rules need to be rewritten to be more clear and less vague. What is 'Fonz cool'? 'Just don't be an asshole?' Too vague to reasonably use as rules.
Besides some additional comments on this, I have nothing to add as to the way the suggestion was written. The way the rules are written is more clear than before and the actual rules themselves are decent enough.
✓ Someone or some group could write up a guide on how to GM and not kill their RP's.
Completed, with thanks to @Lady Amalthea.
✓ A karma system/blacklist system. Karma system was criticized for potentially ostracizing people for OOC reasons not related to roleplay.
We can now ban users from our threads.
✓ Make the existing fan-hosted discord into an official RPG discord by displaying it on the front page.
Although I am not a fan of the way (some of) it happened, I must admit the suggestion was met and the end result is passable and good enough for me.
✓ More complicated captchas to help discourage the spambot plagues
I believe this suggestion was met through disabling sign in at certain hours, but I could be mistaken. Not an optimal solution and more work is required but it satisfies the original need I suppose.
✓ No trust in community to 'elect' moderators either. Popularity contest.
This didn't happen. Thus the suggestion was met.
✓ A blacklist (off-site) for people that are known to ruin RP's with hostility and other problematic things.
Was attempted for a short while, but it was found to be useless because it'd require manual updating and for people to read it, plus suggestions were made for arbitrary reason and/or falsehoods.
✓ Report system fails because moderators constantly refer to the rules, but the rules state outdated concepts like 'pressing the report button' of which there is none. Rewrite the rules.
As mentioned before.
✓ Maintain the current system of simplicity that makes RPG feel 'like home' compared to other sites that 'try too hard'.
If 'maintaining' something was the end goal then we succeeded.
✓ PM System is horrid and needs to be revised. Deleting PM's is to be #1 priority for Mahz before doing anything else.
As mentioned above.
What has been partially completed:
Bear in mind these are direct quotes from previous thread, with both the priorities and regular suggestions sections being quoted, and as such there may be duplicates.
- Moderators need more capacity to do things or otherwise a secondary co-admin with equal or slightly less powers should be appointed
- The forum should be more aesthetically pleasing.
- Community events (videogame night, story telling night, etc.)
- Actually reporting people to the Moderators as needed in order to make the website feel less "lawless".
- Nobody reads the rules and even if they do, there is no enforcement anyway so why follow them?
- A feeling of uselessness of discussion and debate about the state of RPG has arisen, because nothing ever happens and the moderators don't talk back.
- The most pressing problem with the site is the lack of updates from the site or Mahz.
- We should as a whole venture more into the introduction area and greet newcomers,ask them how they are, what kind of role plays they like, and generally make them feel like they're entering into a positive community.
I was going to place this in my 'bias' section but I remember Hank himself told me that despite his status as co-admin, he can't actually do much with the powers. With my knowledge of code being limited I can still say confidently that I think the fix to this would tke about 2 minutes of copying code from one place to the other. I understand that Mahz is still busy, but I don't find it unreasonable to expect small changes like these to occur in a timely manner instead of being left waiting for five months for a new role (co admin) only to have it result in no real changes.
- The forum should be more aesthetically pleasing.
I like the new buttons. I still think improvements could be made left and right.
- Community events (videogame night, story telling night, etc.)
We had that '10 years of RPG' thing and then nothing happened with it. The big celebration was getting to read that people wrote things about RPG.
- Actually reporting people to the Moderators as needed in order to make the website feel less "lawless".
I have no way to check this aside from actually just saying 'maybe????' I feel like nothing still gets reported so this may as well be a non-reached goal but I'll cut some slack here.
- Nobody reads the rules and even if they do, there is no enforcement anyway so why follow them?
With the big button that says 'guild rules' I feel it is hard to say 'I didn't see the rules' anymore. The reason I didn't give this a pass is because the rules were removed from sticky in every single subforum. I honestly don't see a reason for them to be unstickied, which is not user friendly and should be reversed back for clarity sake.
- A feeling of uselessness of discussion and debate about the state of RPG has arisen, because nothing ever happens and the moderators don't talk back.
Promises were made. I don't think we have much to show for them but.. in the future?
- The most pressing problem with the site is the lack of updates from the site or Mahz.
This was fixed for approximately one-to-two (maybe 3) months before Mahz disappeared again. Those who do not use discord are unaware of why. None of the moderators decided 'lets post a public statement about it for him so nobody wonders where he is.' We're back to square one.
- We should as a whole venture more into the introduction area and greet newcomers,ask them how they are, what kind of role plays they like, and generally make them feel like they're entering into a positive community.
We have a new introduction bot in the discord that alerts people to new introduction threads. A high-tech attempt to improve this (I suppose) that doesn't really actually help because to my knowledge nobody actually responds to these.
What is subjective:
Bear in mind these are direct quotes from previous thread, with both the priorities and regular suggestions sections being quoted, and as such there may be duplicates.
/ Moderators are too inactive
/ Moderators need to be present in the community more
/ New faces in the moderators are desired if not downright required
/ Free-, casual-, and advanced names need to be changed to better represent not the skill but the dedication to a roleplay required within. Tags will replace the skill requirement notifier.
/ Not unimportant, guides should be pinned to roleplaying forums where they can be useful i.e. GMing guides or roleplaying guides in roleplay sections, arena guides in arena section, etc.
/ Communication skills of the community itself.
/ Actually reporting people to the Moderators as needed in order to make the website feel less "lawless".
/ Nobody reads the rules and even if they do, there is no enforcement anyway so why follow them?
/ A feeling of uselessness of discussion and debate about the state of RPG has arisen, because nothing ever happens and the moderators don't talk back.
/ Moderators appear uncommitted and seem 'okay' with how things are now even if the community disagrees and has stated they are not satisfied.
/ RPG moderators seem unaware of or uncaring towards the problem that a lot of problems occur offsite and are carried over into RPG.
/ Moderator applications can be considered but are not seen as the end-all tool for finding new and dependable moderators because it raises the problem of people wanting to gain power for the purpose of gaining power.
/ Agreeing that we need to change doesn't mean people will change, because we cannot control other peoples actions and words.
/ Moderators need to be present in the community more
/ New faces in the moderators are desired if not downright required
/ Free-, casual-, and advanced names need to be changed to better represent not the skill but the dedication to a roleplay required within. Tags will replace the skill requirement notifier.
/ Not unimportant, guides should be pinned to roleplaying forums where they can be useful i.e. GMing guides or roleplaying guides in roleplay sections, arena guides in arena section, etc.
/ Communication skills of the community itself.
/ Actually reporting people to the Moderators as needed in order to make the website feel less "lawless".
/ Nobody reads the rules and even if they do, there is no enforcement anyway so why follow them?
/ A feeling of uselessness of discussion and debate about the state of RPG has arisen, because nothing ever happens and the moderators don't talk back.
/ Moderators appear uncommitted and seem 'okay' with how things are now even if the community disagrees and has stated they are not satisfied.
/ RPG moderators seem unaware of or uncaring towards the problem that a lot of problems occur offsite and are carried over into RPG.
/ Moderator applications can be considered but are not seen as the end-all tool for finding new and dependable moderators because it raises the problem of people wanting to gain power for the purpose of gaining power.
/ Agreeing that we need to change doesn't mean people will change, because we cannot control other peoples actions and words.
What is subjective:
Bear in mind these are direct quotes from previous thread, with both the priorities and regular suggestions sections being quoted, and as such there may be duplicates.
x Moderators are too inactive
x New faces in the moderators are desired if not downright required
x Moderators need more capacity to do things or otherwise a secondary co-admin with equal or slightly less powers should be appointed
x A report button must be added to increase the amount of actual reports being filed to deal with the problem of nobody reporting anything due to a feeling of uselessness
x Free-, casual-, and advanced names need to be changed to better represent not the skill but the dedication to a roleplay required within. Tags will replace the skill requirement notifier.
x Custom tags and tabs for threads would be a nice addition.
x Not unimportant, guides should be pinned to roleplaying forums where they can be useful i.e. GMing guides or roleplaying guides in roleplay sections, arena guides in arena section, etc.
x RPGNews is inconsistent, but a fanmade and hosted version could be made. Potentially riddled with the same problems as old RPGN.
x Updating/adding guides to the appropriate section and linking newcomers to them.
x Reviving the Contest function and/or creating our own (include other forms of art, I intend to host a giveaway of some sorts in the future).
x Community events (videogame night, story telling night, etc.)
x Mods are (too) inactive for their position, to the point where users are unaware of their existence. (Recurring mentions, almost unanimous agreement on this subject).
x Free-, casual-, and advanced sections separate the userbase into a non-enforceable 'made up' idea of who is free and who is advanced.
x Preferable seperation based on commitment where free roleplay becomes low-commitment roleplay and advanced and casual merge into high-commitment RP.
x 'Tag' system replaces existing free, casual and advanced sections and thus the distinction in skill remains.
x We need new faces in the staff/moderator board that are more capable of engaging and actively enforcing rules.
x The most pressing problem with the site is the lack of updates from the site or Mahz.
x Pin relevant guides to the relevant subforums i.e. GMing 101 could be pinned everywhere.
x Moderators themselves agree with the community that more moderators, and specifically more active moderators are required.
x Moderators fail to communicate their priorities and problems and as a result create the feeling that the mods are just resting on their laurels doing nothing while this is not the case, purely because of failure to communicate.
x Some people want to split casual into low-medium-high casual respectively & most people don't want to spread the forums even wider and would rather see it condensed (admittedly it wasn't a point that was discussed a lot) & Revert free to original title 'beginner roleplay' & Reduce the number of sections to the old free, casual, advanced.
x Things go unreported because 'walking away' or 'handling it yourself' is seen as the better option (potentially linked to the perceived lack of punishment/follow up on reports)
x People think another large issue is the defensiveness people have of their own cliques.
x There were mixed feelings about arena, tabletop and nation RP. On the one hand people agreed that they were too different to be merged with other forums, on the other hand there was the question that they are not active enough to warrant their own forums, especially when you consider that arena had new functions added that are barely used and/or updated.
x Changing decorum and communication tactics can be a fix to activity problems.
x Bans are not handed out often and when they are are often reverted due to a preference for warning rather than banning seems to exist, and users that say they are very sorry will be granted the request to remove the ban.
x NRP seems more willing to merge with advanced RP than tabletop and arena, perhaps because NRP is more comparable. Overall NRP'ers are afraid that the creativity has stagnated and hope that the merge might introduce new ideas.
x Moderators raise the point that their 'job description' is one of janitor but alternatively, the position of mod isn't one you get paid for, but one that you take because you like the community and/or are connected to it, therefore taking the extra step to engage with the community and remain a part of it is to be expected for at least a few members of the mod team & Engaging the community should in fact become part of the moderators' job because it builds community and breaks down the ivory tower that exists at the moment, while also ensuring that people become more aware of their presence (compared to now where certain moderators are entirely unknown).
Hard to say anything has happened with this, as mentioned above, you have 7 moderators, 2 have been gone for 3 days or more, 2 have their online status hidden, one maintains his persona as 'the lazy mod' so do the math.
x New faces in the moderators are desired if not downright required
Old moderators were 'rehired' and nothing has really changed as a result of that beyond more arguments.
x Moderators need more capacity to do things or otherwise a secondary co-admin with equal or slightly less powers should be appointed
I realize I also put this under 'partial' completion but what use is a co-admin if he can't do anything an admin can do. There was no point to this new role otherwise.
x A report button must be added to increase the amount of actual reports being filed to deal with the problem of nobody reporting anything due to a feeling of uselessness
Give us the ability to report things in an easier manner. I guarantee you will see an increase in reports.
x Free-, casual-, and advanced names need to be changed to better represent not the skill but the dedication to a roleplay required within. Tags will replace the skill requirement notifier.
No comment required.
x Custom tags and tabs for threads would be a nice addition.
Seems to not be an option momentarily, so no hard feelings over this one.
x Not unimportant, guides should be pinned to roleplaying forums where they can be useful i.e. GMing guides or roleplaying guides in roleplay sections, arena guides in arena section, etc.
Takes five minutes.
x RPGNews is inconsistent, but a fanmade and hosted version could be made. Potentially riddled with the same problems as old RPGN.
No comment needed except that RPG news is really dead now.
x Updating/adding guides to the appropriate section and linking newcomers to them.
Perhaps the intent of this was unclear. It meant for the relevant guides to be stickied to the relevant forums, i.e. GMing 101 would be linked to the roleplaying forums, etcetera.
x Reviving the Contest function and/or creating our own (include other forms of art, I intend to host a giveaway of some sorts in the future).
Technically, the suggestion is erroneous in nature. There is no need to revive it. There are two ACTIVE contest mods. I don't see any reason why there are no contests being held if both of these mods can be active in other areas (I am unsure about the situation of one of these mods, but the other is active in discord daily as a chat moderator, so again, no reason not to consider a contest.)
x Community events (videogame night, story telling night, etc.)
Purpose seems lackluster to me, but it was suggested and it can't do harm. Just need someone to shoulder the responsibility. GCS (unofficial chat server) had impromptu games that attracted a lot of people. If anything, RPG Official has more capacity and should therefore be able to host this even better. Not really a requirement, but it is a suggestion.
x Mods are (too) inactive for their position, to the point where users are unaware of their existence. (Recurring mentions, almost unanimous agreement on this subject).
I feel like the moderators are more visible, but it might purely be because of discord + the fact that their names are hard to miss in the rules. Not because they are more active. Perhaps a bit biased, I don't know. Regardless, I've had agreement on the point that the current mods are too thin spread and can't muster the activity to really do their duties properly, so I'll assume that it's also agreed upon in the mod team that having more hands on board wouldn't hurt. I'm left wondering why nobody is recruited. Again, I'd love to be explained this. There is, perhaps, a really good reason for this.
x Free-, casual-, and advanced sections separate the userbase into a non-enforceable 'made up' idea of who is free and who is advanced.
x Preferable seperation based on commitment where free roleplay becomes low-commitment roleplay and advanced and casual merge into high-commitment RP.
The suggestion was made but so far not used.
x 'Tag' system replaces existing free, casual and advanced sections and thus the distinction in skill remains.
As far as I know this is currently one of the highest priorities but it is simply put unfinished and not even remotely close to the existing 'browsing' strategy for finding RP's. I don't see any reason to currently use this system.
x We need new faces in the staff/moderator board that are more capable of engaging and actively enforcing rules.
We need new faces in the staff/moderator board that are more capable of engaging and actively enforcing rules.
x The most pressing problem with the site is the lack of updates from the site or Mahz.
I'm double-posting this one because it's important and fits two roles. The solution seems simple - have moderators or other staff make a somewhat consistent post about the state of RPG and the end goal.
x Pin relevant guides to the relevant subforums i.e. GMing 101 could be pinned everywhere.
Easy thing to do. It can only help, not cause harm. No reason not to try it.
x Moderators themselves agree with the community that more moderators, and specifically more active moderators are required.
This problem persists even with the re-entry of old moderators which might be a cause to think if you don't need more people. Even if it is only to moderate the discord, and not the site itself.
x Moderators fail to communicate their priorities and problems and as a result create the feeling that the mods are just resting on their laurels doing nothing while this is not the case, purely because of failure to communicate.
I don't often see communication about what is going on, even if I am directly involved. It seems users are constantly left out of the loop.
x Some people want to split casual into low-medium-high casual respectively & most people don't want to spread the forums even wider and would rather see it condensed (admittedly it wasn't a point that was discussed a lot) & Revert free to original title 'beginner roleplay' & Reduce the number of sections to the old free, casual, advanced.
Nothing was done with the sections. Not a high priority but worth considering as it occurs really frequently on the list yet nothing has happened with it.
x Things go unreported because 'walking away' or 'handling it yourself' is seen as the better option (potentially linked to the perceived lack of punishment/follow up on reports)
Seems to still be the case in most cases by my experience, seems o be based on rough interpretations of what a report actually is in other cases according to others
x People think another large issue is the defensiveness people have of their own cliques.
I haven't seen an improvement of this yet, although some of the more 'famous' clique's have completely vanished. Might just be me seeing things?
x There were mixed feelings about arena, tabletop and nation RP. On the one hand people agreed that they were too different to be merged with other forums, on the other hand there was the question that they are not active enough to warrant their own forums, especially when you consider that arena had new functions added that are barely used and/or updated.
Nothing has happened here, although perhaps the arena section has become slightly more active. Might be my eyes betraying me, though. It's still not a very active place.
x Changing decorum and communication tactics can be a fix to activity problems.
x Bans are not handed out often and when they are are often reverted due to a preference for warning rather than banning seems to exist, and users that say they are very sorry will be granted the request to remove the ban.
I've seen more bans being redrawn over the past 5 months than in the time I was on here in the years before that. Not necessarily a bad thing, just an observation.
x NRP seems more willing to merge with advanced RP than tabletop and arena, perhaps because NRP is more comparable. Overall NRP'ers are afraid that the creativity has stagnated and hope that the merge might introduce new ideas.
AFAIK the idea hasn't been discussed whatsoever and perhaps the sentiment is not alive anymore at all. Altogether nothing has happened with this, which may be a good thing, or may be a bad thing.
x Moderators raise the point that their 'job description' is one of janitor but alternatively, the position of mod isn't one you get paid for, but one that you take because you like the community and/or are connected to it, therefore taking the extra step to engage with the community and remain a part of it is to be expected for at least a few members of the mod team & Engaging the community should in fact become part of the moderators' job because it builds community and breaks down the ivory tower that exists at the moment, while also ensuring that people become more aware of their presence (compared to now where certain moderators are entirely unknown).
Honestly, I don't even know if it's my own bias or not, but I have not seen anything like this. Feel free to correct me if you think otherwise.
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