Sure, I suppose I agree (though I fail to see how that's relevant).

Not to be callous, but I do a lot of Project Management at work - so a compelling argument for taking down a section of the page is going to have to be more than frankly handful of anecdotal complaints from people who are otherwise unaffected by its being there. Is it causing site lag or affecting signups is more what I mean?

At the end of the day, a site is never going to please everyone. I think a feasible argument can be made for moving it lower in the list (provided that's not an unnecessary drain on Mahz's time and resources) but you have to ask yourself *why* it makes you angry.

Could it be tweaked? Sure - but any tweaks should be data driven as much as possible, and not just driven by whim.

(Sorry if that comes off as rude at all.)

It is a comparison between how people are using Expanded Horizons and how it was intended to be used. The fact is that there is only one actual RP going on. Subsequently, RPs are not crossing over or interacting, which was the whole point of EH in the first place. The sole active RP is doing well on its own, which begs the question, why bother having it in Expanded Horizons? It appears to be self-contained, and even if it wasn't, it wouldn't matter. User-created worlds are of no value if the GMs in charge of them are not maintaining them. The GM of the active RP would be better off redesigning that world on their own. It is a gigantic project, posted above all the other RPs, with a huge scale and fantastic plans, and it is very dead, to the point that members here consider it an eyesore. RPGuild is promoting a deserted section above all the other RPs, and it's a darn shame.

I want to do those things as soon as there is enough activity for it though. Even if there is only one thread at a time, I would plan on maintaining a continuity between those threads. I think it is good for there to be somewhere where people who are interested in a persistent setting have an outlet to try it, even if it is only a minority of total users. If there was somewhere else that I could go which was more active than EH that would be one thing, but there isn't. I encourage people who are bothered by its inactivity to join it so that it can be active enough to live up to its potential, not try to get it deleted.

As for gain and losses, the site is improved by having RPs correctly organized again. It helps activity and streamlines the main page, and it ultimately removes what is ultimately a failed endeavor from the main page, where it is proudly displayed for a vast majority of players to disregard. If you would examine the rest of this thread, you'll notice that leaving it as it is already upsets quite a few people, who would rather have it removed or scrapped rather than changed.

Other people being triggered that something merely exists doesn't matter. If you have an RP that you are enjoying, and aren't breaking any rules, it doesn't matter how many non-involved people I can round up who think it's a garbage RP and should be deleted. It would be wrong for it to be deleted just because a crowd of otherwise unrelated onlookers say they personally don't like it.

Another acceptable outcome, already accepted by everyone else, would be for Expanded Horizons to be moved below the Roleplay section so that it doesn't detract from the other 99% of RPs that are actually progressing.

I don't really see how its position in the ordering detracts from anything, since it's apparently not drawing many if any people away from the other sections, but sure I guess. The ordering isn't a big deal imo.

I do agree with CoyoteLovely that I would prefer less rules and the most open-world/free setting possible. However the profile approval and "rules" are very sparse and not a major issue. I had no issue making a quick profile that got accepted and there hasn't been any case of arbitrary rules interfering with anyone's writing that I have seen.

I'm not much one for debates with strangers, and would honestly like to stay out of this thread entirely, but since I was tagged, I'd rather not my silence be taken for acceptance.

So, I'll at least say that while I recognize its flaws, I like EH and would like to stay there.

I'm not going to do a full post as I haven't been mentioned and will only give a solid reply if someone wants more reasoning from my angle, but I should note that my advocacy has nothing to do with actually removing the content. I have been in favor of a) restructuring the way the forum works, to give it more of a founding point, b) move the threads to another section, or at the least c) moving the section down in the forum tabs to be more in line with the rest of the site and having a serious look given to it regarding where it actually wants to go.

There is no 'anger' or 'being triggered' or 'I want it all to burn down' as far as I see.

And further, as this seems to be unclear, I make no petition for outright deletion.

@Ruby @Rilla @Holy Soldier @Mattchstick @ArenaSnow etc ...

There are two things I think should be noted.

1. Retention policy. RPGuild staff are NOT in the business of removing content without good reason. There are posts still accessible from over a decade ago. Deleting the work the contributors to Expanding Horizons have put in, even if they have become inactive, lacks precedence on this site and merit in general. As such, deleting Expanding Horizons, as some people have intimated, is almost certainly off the table.

2. Related content. In the last two or so years, Expanding Horizons has accumulated a lot of related content that is designed to have interplay and accessibility to all of the players involved. Above, I've seen suggestions ranging from dumping everything into another subforum to merging everything into a super-thread. While both options are feasible, they likewise have drawbacks that ultimately end in confusion and disorganization relative to what the current Expanding Horizons user experience is (not that it is great, but it is at least fairly accessible). Some of the better options I've seen and support involve maintaining the intactness of Expanding Horizons by moving it to a less conspicuous location, perhaps as a sub-subforum of Casual Roleplay or just lower down on the page.

Please see my posts in the earlier thread as some of my other points remain relevant.

Put EH lower down on the site and call it a day.

I JUST got tagged in this, so I'm coming in without knowing what's been said but...

I haven't seen any talk to DELETE Expanding Horizon. We don't delete much on the Guild, anyway.

It'll probably get replaced as a PW and be moved to a normal RP thread. That's what I've seen.

Put EH lower down on the site and call it a day.

This+1

Move it down and create a fantasy one and I'll be happy. Otherwise top, bottom, middle, I don't really care. It doesn't stop me from getting to the Arena or Advanced when need be.

Move it down and create a fantasy one and I'll be happy. Otherwise top, bottom, middle, I don't really care. It doesn't stop me from getting to the Arena or Advanced when need be.

The current storyline is a fantasy storyline.

@Rose There are literally zero actual moderators for the EH's IC and OOC tabs (Harb and Zy lost interest like a month into the project). That needs to be addressed.

@Circ Um what? Did you mean to tag someone else?

<Snipped quote by Rilla>

The current storyline is a fantasy storyline.

@Rose There are literally zero actual moderators for the EH's IC and OOC tabs (Harb and Zy lost interest like a month into the project). That needs to be addressed.

PM me about it.

As one of the folks that likely got labeled as an inactive, I currently am not invested in EH enough to really care if it stays or goes. Main reason I created a character for it in the first place was I thought it was a cool concept and wanted to check it out.

I do, however, feel like with such a small playerbase in the grand scheme of things, wouldn't be a bad idea to look into downsizing the project. Having spent some time with a group that did dedicated Discord RP, I feel like it might function very well on the Discord server as it's own sub-group of channels or something (or maybe exist as its own server).

Anyways, my 2 cents worth.

I JUST got tagged in this, so I'm coming in without knowing what's been said but...

I haven't seen any talk to DELETE Expanding Horizon. We don't delete much on the Guild, anyway.

It'll probably get replaced as a PW and be moved to a normal RP thread. That's what I've seen.

I just read your updates in EH. I appreciate you taking an interest in addressing this. Coming from a flash game site where the community moderators couldn't give half a crap about member concerns, it's really encouraging to see actual feedback and action.

Put EH lower down on the site and call it a day.

yup

I am however also in favour of reworking the system significantly to make it more appealing, and more active.

<Snipped quote by Ruby>

I just read your updates in EH. I appreciate you taking an interest in addressing this. Coming from a flash game site where the community moderators couldn't give half a crap about member concerns, it's really encouraging to see actual feedback and action.

We try.

<Snipped quote by Mataus>

yup

I am however also in favour of reworking the system significantly to make it more appealing, and more active.

As I said earlier, I would rather see Expanding Horizons moved down lower from its current position. I don't agree with it being deleted, nor am I in favor with it being a free-for-all, lawless jump-in RP as some had suggested earlier.

That being said, allow me to expand my stance further. As of the time I am typing this, I have yet to participate in a thread in the EH section, but I have looked around several times within the section, with even some threads sparking my interest such as the Cambria one that is taking place right now. While some threads have caught my eye, as @Antarctic Termite said, in its current state, it needs to be more appealing/active for me to consider joining.

I do feel as EH tries to be too much while having too little. From an outsider's perspective, Expanding Horizons appears to be bogged down by series upon series of rule sets, which makes it less attractive for me to join. On top of that, outside of @Circ (who I must commend for trying his hardest to keep EH alive), I haven't seen the currently listed moderators active within the project itself outside the first few weeks EH existed. Without an active moderation staff (outside the forum staff in its entirety) and a dwindling playerbase, Expanding Horizons feels empty, dead and hollow... and frankly I'm not keen towards joining a RP (or a RP setting/universe) that appears as if its on its last legs.

As a final point of mine, @Ellri summarizes it nicely:

Our impression of it, is that it is trying (and failing) to bite off too much at once. That it would be better to start up a single persistent world in a single setting and RP type, be it sci-fi, fantasy or whatever, rather than trying to establish a persistent world for all settings at once.

that opinion was in part formed before it even got started, but unfortunately it hasn't been disproven.

Rather than having "fantasy planet" "superhero planet" "sci-fi planet" "tentacle love planet" and so on, we'd suggest going for just one of those, let that grow up properly before even considering to add anything else.

Which setting to start it with should be decided by the community to a certain degree.

Just as I said in my last post, I believe Expanding Horizons would have a better time focusing solely on one setting at a time. The idea of a PW where you can do or be practically anything is a noble idea, but it can be messy when trying to combining multiple settings or push some people away. If there was large enough and active moderation base for EH, then I can see a multiple genre PW or even separate PWs for, say, fantasy or scifi, and so on.

If we had had time to spare, we would've followed up on an idea from a few months back when someone contacted us about establishing a Star Wars persistent world. But alas we don't have the spare time to plan anything like that.

If such were to be started, we at least would've wanted it to be locked to star wars only. Initially locked to only one time period in that universe. We'd suggest something long before the movies, as that means one can avoid all the pesky issues that come together with canon characters.