Geomancy: Create a massive hole underneath the opponent and then bury him under a ton of rocks

Noxomancy: A field of pestilence of an airbourne disease. or fuck that. DEATH ON SIGHT!!!

Aeromancy: Create a tornado that sucks the air out of the environment.

Everything is fucking unbalanced if you take a few minutes to think about them.

WitchChild said
Sure, there would be a limit to it. Such as time that is needed to sort through the memories, implant the memories etc etc. Nothing instantanious. But how fair is it to be up against a Pyromancer that can melt your face with a thought? Or an Electromancer that can manipulate magnetism which is control of everything metal. Hell, using Magnetism to become a human rail gun for Gods sake. Nothing is fair when you take time to think about it.

With psychomancy, you could implant horrible painful nightmares in said electromancer or pyromancer, or knock them unconscious. It's true, psychomancy itself doesn't harm, but it disables the fighter that can't do anything is a dead fighter. If you can immobilize or incapacitate your opponent, you win.

Lucius Cypher said
I think I can work with Rtron and Lucius to create one, what do you two think?

That would be a logical course of action.

Also, all magic has their weaknesses and strengths. There are some areas will one type of blood excels naturally the best in, and others where it must struggle to keep up. Trying to stay just within the area of your ability is what's known as a "Crippling Overspecialization": by that point you're going to make up your own weaknesses. Even Psychomancy, for all their bells and whistles, don't have any means to stop themselves from bleeding to death.

WitchChild said
Sure, there would be a limit to it. Such as time that is needed to sort through the memories, implant the memories etc etc. Nothing instantanious. But how fair is it to be up against a Pyromancer that can melt your face with a thought? Or an Electromancer that can manipulate magnetism which is control of everything metal. Hell, using Magnetism to become a human rail gun for Gods sake. Nothing is fair when you take time to think about it.

I think Witch has a point here, all bloods have some pretty powerful effects. Like vitamancy, with the ability to damage a person by using their magic on their insides. How would one defend against that without a rune or something? Psychomancy's counter is mental wards, but I think runes are the only thing that would work there.

WitchChild said
Geomancy: Create a massive hole underneath the opponent and then bury him under a ton of rocksNoxomancy: A field of pestilence of an airbourne disease. or fuck that. DEATH ON SIGHT!!!Aeromancy: Create a tornado that sucks the air out of the environment. Everything is fucking unbalanced if you take a few minutes to think about them.

Again, the master psychomancer instantly disables the opponent with a thought, thus winning by default. That master geomancer doesn't look so tough when you can slice his neck while he sleeps huh?

EliteCommander said
I think Witch has a point here, all bloods have some pretty powerful effects. Like vitamancy, with the ability to damage a person by using their magic on their insides. How would one defend against that without a rune or something? Psychomancy's counter is mental wards, but I think runes are the only thing that would work there.

Attack the rune, damage it and it fails. there isn't anything like that with psychomancy right now, but again, they're working on it.

Freeshooter92 said
With psychomancy, you could implant horrible painful nightmares in said electromancer or pyromancer, or knock them unconscious. It's true, psychomancy itself doesn't harm, but it the fighter that can't do anything is a dead fighter. If you can immobilize or incapacitate your opponent, you win.

Or, if you are a pyromancer and get teh first draw, you can turn the psychomancer into charred carcass within 5 seconds.

Or if you are an electromancer against someone wearing armor and you fry the fucker

Aeromancer that summons a massive gale of wind to sweep the psychomancer off his feet and 50 feet into the air

Noxomancer that hurls DEATH AT YOU!!!

Geomancer that summons SPIKES OF FLINT from the ground and up the psychomancer's ass.

Lucius Cypher said
That would be a logical course of action.Also, all magic has their weaknesses and strengths. There are some areas will one type of blood excels naturally the best in, and others where it must struggle to keep up. Trying to stay just within the area of your ability is what's known as a : by that point you're going to make up your own weaknesses. Even Psychomancy, for all their bells and whistles, don't have any means to stop themselves from bleeding to death.

True, but the problem is if you abuse it enough that won't happen. I'm worried that something will abuse it, and I think there needs to be a failsafe against it.

WitchChild said
Or, if you are a pyromancer and get teh first draw, you can turn the psychomancer into charred carcass within 5 seconds. Or if you are an electromancer against someone wearing armor and you fry the fuckerAeromancer that summons a massive gale of wind to sweep the psychomancer off his feet and 50 feet into the airNoxomancer that hurls DEATH AT YOU!!!Geomancer that summons SPIKES OF FLINT from the ground and up the psychomancer's ass.

None of those are faster than thought. Hell, the psychomancer can use an illusion of oneself as a decoy and mind-slave the other guy as soon as he's distracted.

Freeshooter92 said
True, but the problem is if you abuse it enough that won't happen. I'm worried that something will it, and I think there needs to be a failsafe against it.

IT's called GM POWAHS!!!!

Freeshooter92 said
None of those are faster than thought. Hell, the psychomancer can use an illusion of oneself as a decoy and mind-slave the other guy as soon as he's distracted.

And Noxomancers, at death, can use ALL Their power reserves just before dying to give you fucking cancer. What is your point? EVERYTHING can be abused.

Freeshooter92 said
None of those are faster than thought. Hell, the psychomancer can use an illusion of oneself as a decoy and mind-slave the other guy as soon as he's distracted.

And you are presuming that EVERYTHING that a psychomancer does is instantaneous.

WitchChild said
Or, if you are a pyromancer and get teh first draw, you can turn the psychomancer into charred carcass within 5 seconds. Or if you are an electromancer against someone wearing armor and you fry the fuckerAeromancer that summons a massive gale of wind to sweep the psychomancer off his feet and 50 feet into the airNoxomancer that hurls DEATH AT YOU!!!Geomancer that summons SPIKES OF FLINT from the ground and up the psychomancer's ass.

I would like to point out that the armor thing doesn't work as you say with electricity. Metal armor acts like your own personal Faraday cage, essentially. Electricity takes the path of least resistance to the ground, and the metal of the armor has much less resistance than flesh. Contrary to popular belief, that is why cars are safe in lightning storms. It has nothing to do with rubber tires.

Edit: of course, if the electricity heats the metal enough to melt it, then you have a whole new and different problem, so electromancy would still definitely be useful.

It needs to be in the rules, not just GM power. If it's not in the rules, somebody might try to abuse it anyway, and it's a huge pain in the ass as well as not very fun when it comes time for the GM to drop the hammer. I think they'd like to minimize that.

WitchChild said
And you are presuming that EVERYTHING that a psychomancer does is instantaneous.

Exactly. because that's how it works. 'thought' doesn't really have a perceptible travel time.

If in real life, you put a tank pilot against a jet pilot, both of equal skill, you can be sure the jet pilot will have an advantage. It's the work of countering. If every blood counters the other, what's the fun of it? Your character would never be afraid of any other blood and the magical battlefield would be stagnant.

It's obvious that master mages would be, well... Lethal, but keep in mind that very few people actually reach that level of power, and the ones that do, are often too aware of the destructive potential they possess, to the point of refusing to use their powers to their full extent most of the time.

Besides, masters know their weaknesses. A pyromancer would know fighting an aeromancer is pretty much certain death to them, as would a hydromancer know that an electromancer is very dangerous to them, due to the conductivity of water.

Psychomancy can disable most, if given time. But their actions require such a level of focus that even a single distraction can disable their offensive capabilities for the time required to kill them. Freeshooter, you're putting psychomancy on a pedestal. They truly aren't that special. You think they're OP, but in reality, just flick their nose or send one mentally trained pyromancer aided by a rune at them, and they're done for.

EliteCommander said
I would like to point out that the armor thing doesn't work as you say with electricity. Metal armor acts like your own personal Faraday cage, essentially. Electricity takes the path of least resistance to the ground, and the metal of the armor has much less resistance than flesh. Contrary to popular belief, that is why cars are safe in lightning storms. It has nothing to do with rubber tires.

Huh. Even I didn't know that. Learn something every day.

WitchChild said

Or, if you are a pyromancer and get teh first draw, you can turn the psychomancer into charred carcass within 5 seconds.

Or if you are an electromancer against someone wearing armor and you fry the fucker

Aeromancer that summons a massive gale of wind to sweep the psychomancer off his feet and 50 feet into the air

Noxomancer that hurls DEATH AT YOU!!!

Geomancer that summons SPIKES OF FLINT from the ground and up the psychomancer's ass.

Dodge it then would be idea then? Or fact Psychomancer can create illusions to fool their enemies into attacking thin air? Not to mention each blood has it's negatives and positive traits. Vitamancy can hurt you with a look, but unless that PC has flesh, muscle, or skin, then it won't have an effect. Not to mention you blind them, a possibly with Psychomancy, then that ability IC negated completely. You're also forgetting there's metals that negate magical effects like Mythril and Mage Bane, being mage is pointless at stage. Not to mention you're only mentioning master abilities without considering the fact Psychomancy, if you're being fair, is also mastered.

As Free mentioned and I and Lucius have, we're working on a balance so try not to let this debate escalate guys.

Frettzo said
If in real life, you put a tank pilot against a jet pilot, both of equal skill, you can be sure the jet pilot will have an advantage. It's the work of countering. If every blood counters the other, what's the fun of it? Your character would never be afraid of any other blood and the magical battlefield would be stagnant. It's obvious that master mages would be, well... Lethal, but keep in mind that very few people actually reach that level of power, and the ones that do, are often too aware of the destructive potential they possess, to the point of refusing to use their powers to their full extent most of the time. Besides, masters know their weaknesses. A pyromancer would know fighting an aeromancer is pretty much certain death to them, as would a hydromancer know that an electromancer is very dangerous to them, due to the conductivity of water. Psychomancy can disable most, if given time. But their actions require such a level of focus that even a single distraction can disable their offensive capabilities for the time required to kill them.

Yes, counters are important.
But what if that jet had the advantage against everything? that's the problem, Psychomancy has advantage: all right now, but not in a traditional sense.

Fallenreaper said
I suppose it never occurred to you to dodge it then? Or fact Psychomancer can create illusions to fool their enemies into attacking thin air? Not to mention each blood has it's negatives and positive traits. Vitamancy can hurt you with a look, but unless that PC has flesh, muscle, or skin, then it won't have an effect. Not to mention you blind them, a possibly with Psychomancy, then that ability IC negated completely. You're also forgetting there's metals that negate magical effects like Mythril and Mage Bane, being mage is pointless at stage. Not to mention you're only mentioning master abilities without considering the fact Psychomancy, if you're being fair, is also mastered. As Free mentioned and I have, we're working on a balance so try not to let this debate escalate guys.

Hint taken, shutting up now.