But wait, how is Hayim going to be physicallly effected by the plant aura when he is already a plant?

@Leotamer From my understanding, he's an animal "disguised as/happens to look like" a plant.

@Stern Algorithm I wouldn't dream of it >.>

@Leotamer - The aura affects plants too. It makes them bigger, more powerful. That's not to mention the longer he spends in the aura the closer he comes to changing to the Plant domain.

@Leotamer - The aura affects plants too. It makes them bigger, more powerful. That's not to mention the longer he spends in the aura the closer he comes to changing to the Plant domain.

Not really sure I look forward to seeing Hayim go from smol to swole

@Lmpkio

It would be worth it in her eyes.

@Stern Algorithm



BEWARE THE MIGHT OF THE PLANTS

Really wish I had found this sooner, cause it looks like a blast! Kinda wishing I had the time to join right now, but maybe later.
That aside, would a god/goddess of change be possible?

@Stabby - I'm glad you're interested. When you feel you have the time to join in you're quite welcome to.

As for the choice of domain I'm afraid change is a tad tricky. It'd depend largely on what the Change is applied to. A deity of metamorphosis in insects for example would be an acceptable choice, as would a deity of transmutation regarding physical matter. Change regarding the natures of gods and things that apply mainly to them however simply wouldn't appear.

I'd be happy to discuss the idea further. Let me know if your schedule ever opens up enough for this rp and I'll help work out the kinks in whichever concept for a deity you wish to pursue.

@Dealdric

Ok, so Dirka said Gammaton could questions about the contract she wrote for him.

Should I ask you IC or OOC?

Because the contract really is so poorly written that I really have no idea what happens if Gammaton signs it or doesn't sign it. I also feel that Dirka is being too unreasonable. Yeah, I get it, goddess of emotion and whimsy and all that, but why does she hate Gammaton who has literally done nothing? Or is she just THAT afraid of being manipulated by him? And wouldn't it be in her best interest to at least hear him out and extract information from him? She has things she wants to protect, getting pissy at Ragnagedon for attacking her dragon and such, so she behaves rationally for the most part, except when you as a player, decides she doesn't, which feels inconsistent, or meta-gaming, especially since Gammaton's supposed threat level comes only from OOC suspicion, (him having literally done zip IC). I mean, she's not Deadpool (TM) for crying out loud. Heck, even The Joker (TM) can be negotiated with. I just want to know so I can determine if I should stop wasting time trying to make sense of the character or not.

Or does she need to see the benefits of Gammaton's proposed system before she will consider joining? Is there anyway way she can at least be negotiated with, or are you, as a player, just obstinate?

Is there another god Gammaton that has to go through first? Because quite frankly, I'm getting a little frustrated. Throw me a bone here. This is supposed to be collaborative storytelling.

EDIT: Sorry, I am actually frustrated, but I hope I don't come off as offensive. My criticisms are meant to be 'technical' not personal.

@Stern Algorithm



BEWARE THE MIGHT OF THE PLANTS

Man

Whenver I look at this I can't not giggle xD

@Stern Algorithm
tbh I feel as though Dirka is just set on being the chaos to his supposed order.

Meanwhile Iva doesn't want to be part of any side so he's gonna try and play both. He's mostly interested in learning what this supposed threat Gammaton keeps talking about. It's enough to get his interest and temporary co-operation at least.

If Dirka wasn't so flighty I'd have Iva have a nice long chat with her about the importance of planning things in advance, heh. Oh well.

@Stern Algorithm

Dirka is emotional madness. Her personality flips back and forth for it has very little basic form, like her domain. She builds and is smart, but she is irrational in some situations, and her hating gammaton is that irrationality. She also takes influence of the personality of others around her in order to be in tune with what's around her. Her personality is supposed to be inconsistent.

As for her accepting gammaton's idea, the reason why is because she believes wholeheartedly that bringing such order will cause chaos. She likes things as they are between the gods. Yes, skirmishes and harsh words, but she thrives in it. And she thinks that contracts limiting the rights of others is worse than sin.

The contract if signed by Gammaton, only does two things to him: Makes him believe it's his fault and if she does anything based on what the contract has her do, he wouldn't be able to counteract. She wrote those in order to convince him not to sign it. Plus it was purposely written badly because Dirka doesn't naturally write in the common language. All the times she says a weird word is that language coming out. Basically she, like her domain, is foreign and otherworldly.

@A Lowly Wretch - Thank you.

I figured it would be tricky, given how broadly encompassing change itself is, so I started drafting it out once I really began to figure out the idea and have been refining what I have in mind. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it got shot down, so I'll try to think of some other deities I might want to play.

As would I. I'd like to get the idea fully fleashed out, or shot down, beforehand for when the time becomes available. As such I'm wondering if it would be ok for me to pm what drafts I currently have on hand over to you.

@Rune_Alchemist @Dealdric

Right, but from the beginning, the GM shot down my ambiton to being god of order. The GA is not the formation of a new government, just a 'please sit down while I tell you something', followed by a 'and if you think that thing I just told you is important let's all agree to some basic ground rules so the most important things to us can be protected'. It is a lot more democratic and hands off than I think a lot of people are assuming. Gammaton has no delusions of actually ruling over his siblings with an iron fist. Skirmishes and harsh words would continue but the most sacred things to each of the gods would be protected. It would just be a safer status quo. But by categorically ignoring every plea, Dirka has no way to find this out.

And I understand that she's mad, but it really doesn't make sense that nothing he's offered is even the least bit tempting. Unknown knowledge concerning threats to the gods? Absolute honesty for the duration of a conversation? The second one at least should move even the most stubborn heart, and even someone who was heartless would jump at it for the opportunity to exploit someone. I just feel that Dirka's opposition has gone beyond the excuses of madness or differences in principle, to the point that I thought, incorrectly, that I was being snubbed personally as a player. I've seen her grab at advantageous opportunities before, so she's clearly rational in the things she wants. She even makes deals with others. And when she teaches magic, she teaches that magic has rules. She knows that without rules, her followers would be blowing themselves up with their spells. She sees that rules have a place.

Anyways, I'll lay off, but I just want to point out that the most basic games have you solving every obstacle with violence. Better games, whether they be RPGs, open world, or even conquest games, give more options for solving obstacles through non-violent means. I don't want to play a game where a nonviolent solution is irrationally impossible. You can make it extremely difficult, but I want to know that the probability of success exists. I've little interest in scrambling for divine cords or building armies, since that is not the build that I am going for. Will you at least say that it is possible later in the RP if things work out after the GA, thst another god might be able to convince Dirka? For example, the GA offers protection to Sveiand's lovers. This should interest Dirka who has a lover of her own, and may seek to protect him from the likes of Hyperion.

One last point. The contract. Does the contract, if signed, actually force Gammaton to believe that he's at fault? Or is he merely a knowledging that he has done 'something' wrong? I don't think thoughts of other gods can be forced, not even through magic. And one cannot admit guilt to an unknown crime. What is the crime? Existing? You also said, "if she does anything based on what the contract has her do". What actions would fall under this category? And finally, what happens if Gammaton doesn't sign the contract? Will you permit that as the god of Law, Gammaton has the ability to analyze the full legal ramifications of the contract and the ability to void and nullify the contract if he finds it faulty, thus rendering any consequence of signing or not signing moot? Other than Dirka's anger at him, he can't prevent that since that is true regardless.

EDIT: Sorry if things got heated and if I used some unnecessarily harsh language. Also, thanks for taking the time to engage with me and explain.

@Stern Algorithm
Just dropping my own two cents in on this, though I might be wrong.

I'd say that though what he offered might have been tempting, he caught her at a bad time in a bad mood. Not only that, but she's made a deal with Anu to promote war, which though laws and order could give rise to organized military governments, it would eventually end on peace treaties, which as much as I may or may not understand her motives, would in the end likely be counterproductive to the deal she made with Anu.

She wants order through chaos after all, not chaos caused by rigid order.

@Stern Algorithm

The rules are only to keep them alive. The magician culture doesn't have many rules other than don't kill without permission. I see you're point, but I still made her do it. Not an attack on the player, but rather something to enforce the plot. Because, even though the contract was made and signed, she could break it at anytime because it was made of magic rather than divine energy. And she can disrupt any spell using magical energy since that is her domain. I was trying to further the plot, because Dirka dislikes you're character's ideals. Gammaton, if quick enough with his tongue, could convince her to break the contract. And Yes, while she is sometimes an opportunist, it's only for a long term plan, and she refuses to alienate people in such a manner as to take away their choice. The contract she made was her taking away any indecisiveness she might have in the future. And be spiteful to Gammaton's plans.

Plus what this person said was actually correct.

@Stern Algorithm
Just dropping my own two cents in on this, though I might be wrong.

I'd say that though what he offered might have been tempting, he caught her at a bad time in a bad mood. Not only that, but she's made a deal with Anu to promote war, which though laws and order could give rise to organized military governments, it would eventually end on peace treaties, which as much as I may or may not understand her motives, would in the end likely be counterproductive to the deal she made with Anu.

She wants order through chaos after all, not chaos caused by rigid order.

as for the contract, it won't change his thought, just means he is acknowledging it like you said. But the contract was made by means of a curse, not actual law. While gammaton's power is over law, this is not law, but magic. And actions such as ruining an assembly, preventing him from traveling, tricking him, etc. Things like that.

And she doesn't want anyone to even know he exists. I'm using that as a plot furthering situation for future interactions. She may make deals, but she doesn't think all the gods should join.

And I'm not eliminating a non-violent option. I'm just putting it on Halo's legendary mode with all skulls on. :)

(P.S. What harsh language?)

@Dealdric

The GA is also just to set enough laws to keep the gods alive. I think the problem is, having not given Gammaton a chance to truly speak his mind, Dirka doesn't even know what Gammaton's ideals are to be able to hate them.

But by presenting it in the form of a contract, I think it falls into the realm of law, especially since signing it or not signing it changes the ramifications. I would count this as a situation where Dirka accidentally plays into Gammaton's court. By creating it in contract form in order to spite him, she has inadvertently put it firmly in his realm. But I still need to know what not signing the contract means. If not signing it doesn't change anything, he won't destroy it. Would she trust him more if he does the stupid thing and signs it? That doesn't make sense because it means acknowledging her as his enemy, which is precisely what he is trying to avoid. If he signs it, it allows her to restrict his choices, which is precisely what she said she didn't want to do because "she's not him".

As for what @Stabby said, people keep jumping to the conclusion that Gammaton's laws are going to be rigid. Yes, he may be OCD and desire order in his heart, it's not what he's going to act upon. And are Anu and Dirka promoting war between gods or between mortals/humans?

As for the harsh language, I used the word 'metagaming'. I know some people bristle at the accusation since it's kind of a 'bad word' on the Guild. But again, I bring it up as a way to technically distinguish Dirka's actions from what I incorrectly perceived to be 'player whimsy'.

Unfortunately I'll have to bow out from this thread for now, once again I apologise for my late note ~

@Stern Algorithm

As for what @Stabby said, people keep jumping to the conclusion that Gammaton's laws are going to be rigid. Yes, he may be OCD and desire order in his heart, it's not what he's going to act upon. And are Anu and Dirka promoting war between gods or between mortals/humans?

But the thing is that unless they chat and get to know Gam', most will assume that the laws he writes will be rigid, given that the first thing that comes to mind when they hear "Law" is a rigid system that doesn't always do good for all of the times it intends to do good. Like with what was mentioned in his conversation with Iva, it's hard to write a set of laws that can't be abused by someone who wants to minimise risks and maximize gains. Doesn't mean it isn't possible, just that it's uncommon and poorly represented within the idea of law itself.
After all, the only point of reference most gods would have for understanding law would be humans themselves, and I'm pretty sure most human laws present are fairly rigid right now.

Edit: I will apologize for having made assumptions, but given his domain it's kinda hard not to.

@Stern Algorithm

<Snipped quote by Stern Algorithm>

But the thing is that unless they chat and get to know Gam', most will assume that the laws he writes will be rigid, given that the first thing that comes to mind when they hear "Law" is a rigid system that doesn't always do good for all of the times it intends to do good. Like with what was mentioned in his conversation with Iva, it's hard to write a set of laws that can't be abused by someone who wants to minimise risks and maximize gains. Doesn't mean it isn't possible, just that it's uncommon and poorly represented within the idea of law itself.
After all, the only point of reference most gods would have for understanding law would be humans themselves, and I'm pretty sure most human laws present are fairly rigid right now.

What you stated defines 'jumping to conclusions'. Also, the humans in the world still live in tribes, so human law is at its infancy, and hasn't developed into anything even remotely totalitarian. Based on his actions, all he's done is try to negotiate rather than dominate. So I'm giving people the opportunity to chat and get to know him. I just feel that given what information is currently available in the game, this degree of aversion is unwarranted. The reason I brought up metagaming it because it can be perceived as if player bias and player knowledge is influencing character behavior.