[OOC] Champions Have Arrived in the New World: A Problem Children and No Game No Life-Inspired Isekai RP (Page 4)

Figure of Hourai

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We've been trying to give feedback on powers. What you've then done is start arguing with conclusions, dismissed the premise of the feedback you've received, and made a new character. Feedback is a two way street; if you're just going to argue how people are wrong then there's no point trying to help.

Hidden 5 yrs ago → 5 yrs ago Post by The Red Seelie

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@Randomness
Ok so I've gone through each of your sheets before so I could bring up the issues as of current as I see and as how I think Vita is interpretating them. But firstly please understand that using characters from other RP's is really not a "Good Idea" for this rp, and while it may fly in other rps you've been in, It is down to the GM's discretion if they are allowed.

Your first character was denied as a result of it simply falling completely outside of what the GM would allow for in-universe powers. Having a world hopping character simply didn't fit the concept of the roleplay, His entire concept was simple not a healthy thing for the continued life of the rp.

Your Second Character to put this simply, would be an obstrusion to rp flow, The point is allowing key RP interactions to occur as a result of magical methods, if you yourself are completely immune to such things in a sealed suit of armor, this forces the GM to have to work around your 'placed' obstruction. Things such as a widespread illusion do not work. What if a enemy wanted to play chess with you and it was through an illusion that the chessboard was playable. You yourself unaffected by illusion magic would be unable to participate, creating more problems then you solve.

Your Third Character was simply too simplified for the RP, As Isekai'd characters need to have a certain degree of power. If you had taken the GM's advice, you could of had some fun amping it up a little. But you moved on from that. You could of had cool energy blasters or an inbuilt reactor powering your almost 'super robot' level stuff. The issue with him was that he was too 'weak' for hero status.

Your Fourth Character infringed onto the boundaries of the overseers of the game (Due to his rule related abilities), but also nerfed himself to the point where he fell into the trap of the third character. He is simultanously too overpowered (if you remove the limits) and too weak (if you kept the limits as is), as his 'rules' can make or break an engagement.

Your Fifth Character, The Treehugger fellow. Would likely be denied for completely invalidating the reason for the games to occur, as he himself is able ot quite literally solve the 'infertile land for harvest' crisis by his mere existence, Which takes out one of the original hooks for the rp quite quickly. 

All of your characters had issues you could of addressed without fully changing your sheet! So If I was you, I would of taken the character closest to working (Three) and amp'd him up a bit.

Hidden 5 yrs ago → 5 yrs ago Post by Randomness

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@Raineh Daze

All you’ve been doing was calling a power a headache or too weak. If all I’m presented with is “it doesn’t work because it does what it’s supposed to” then of course I’m going to defend it. Perhaps you don’t understand what I’m going for.

That’s something I’m working on, trying to explain things coherently with less words. 

@1Charak2

This is more in line of what I’m looking for, thank you. 

I’m not going to push my first character. I mainly want his power to not be misunderstood. He’s not from another RP, his story is those RPs, but I digress. 

The second character, your explanation is the point. Not to obstruct the Rp, but to influence the story. I can see Silver Sun using that as an advantage to move on and perhaps gain a victory from those challenges if presented as you described. I defend him because the argument against it has not differed from yours. From a story telling perspective it’s a good fit. I’m willing to compromise with him if I can keep some element of anti-magic. Two compromises I’ve thought of is limit his powered gained, or make it work on a give and take situation where he can only absorb so much, but uses it whenever he does something, like attack. Otherwise I’m going to move on. 

Understood on the third character, I can improve upon him as necessary to better his strength and story. 

Fourth character fits in with the second in my opinion, hence the self restrictions. I was trying to find a happy medium and undershot. The restrictions can be tweaked, but I’d prefer the GM to give me an idea where that could be. 

As for my latest, I don’t think so. He can amend that problem, but he can’t solve it. Also he won’t be satisfied. He’ll want to take root as close to the center as possible. If the Silver Sun decides to settle where they are, he’d move forward on his own. Also revived plant life will not live long in such bad soil. Theoretically if he goes, so does the farmland. Alternatively I can tune back his revival abilities. Perhaps he can only revive a plant if there is a part of it still living. I’m willing to tweak these powers as well, I just need a sense of scale preferably from the GM.

Hidden 5 yrs ago Post by Raineh Daze

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Sigh.

Here's the problem: I don't like writing huge walls of text over very simple things. 

Let's focus on the second character, because that's the easiest example of where you're way, way off base on trying to judge your own power level. I can assure you that the number of people happy to run a game where they have to consider every action in light of one character who would utterly negate half the options but would be flattened by going for an alternative is slim to none. This is only exacerbated when we consider the other characters already accepted; if we have one character who can shrug off any magic shoved in their direction but several characters perfectly suited for all physical challenges there's no tension and no drama.

It's actually a very common trap in fantasy roleplapys, magic immunity. "Oh, it's just one thing, and just directed." Well, now you're immune to most magical attack, all magical debuffs, any illusions that would prefer to interfere with the senses, autonomous defences... and depending on the wording, conjured attacks. Which, notably, winds up being every way that a magically-focused enemy can win directly. It's bad enough on its own; but to go and combine it with melee ability and armour and power absorption. Essentially, a magical enemy will be unable to utilise any of their abilities, lesser melee characters are evenly matched. And then you get eaten by Godzilla or something because the whole concept is hinged on one thing.

All of which is a bit too rock-paper-scissors-y in the first place, but step back from the magic/melee/ranged viewpoint for a second. What you essentially negate is any ability that is not about literally smashing you into a pulp. Instantly. Not enough fun limits to exploit. No point trying to use characters that rely on it because there's no challenge and they instantly lose.

High tier anti-magic just isn't fun to DM around or workable. It takes most of the fantasy toolkit and kneecaps it. "This is too easy and won't work." It's doubly bad in a  high magic setting.

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I see your point, and it does help me understand the issue at hand. That is a lot of magic that would be negated. I’m resigned to the reality Doric just won’t work. 

That said, direct magical ability is only half the magic involved. There are a plethora of magical abilities that don’t directly affect someone. Conjugations, projected illusions, buffs to the opponent, abjuration, evocation, and summons are a few. Not to mention changes to the environment, charms or illusions to allies, potions, and direct attacks using magic as the propellant. 

Hidden 5 yrs ago Post by Raineh Daze

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Mmm, but you're forgetting; the GM isn't having to balance around only one character. What you're proposing is essentially restricting the effective uses of magic to "buff allies" and "shoot things at people." Again, we have melee characters--in fact, in a multi-character roleplay it is completely implausible to wind up with only magical specialists or the like.

One character who can negate all magic to themselves and one character good at dealing with, essentially, brute forced buff melee or physical ranged attacks would negate all direct threats. Out of those proposed, only indirect illusions and environmental effects remain and trying to construct an entire roleplay out of those limited circumstances is a headache. Plus it completely undermines what is supposed to be a high magic scenario where characters are really, really good at what they do and specialised by default.

It's worth noting that complete magical negation barely ever makes it into RPG rulesets. Out of many editions of Dungeons and Dragons, I think only the Iron Golem gets away with just shrugging off literally any magic you might put in its general direction and it's an intentional slow and hulking mage killer. Other magic resistance can be pierced and overwhelmed (whether it's the monster's toughness or the caster's ability depends on the edition) and the cases where something BENEFITS from absorbing magic are extremely limited. Doubled by the Beholder being one of the most fearsome enemies for all its absurd appearance because it spams magical negation and magical attacks in tandem. Strong and drawback-free magical immunity wildly imbalances any magical setting to an impractical degree because it restricts magic to doing things you could already do with just a bigger monster.

Hidden 5 yrs ago Post by VitaVitaAR

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Anything I could say has really been addressed by everyone else. ^^;

Hidden 5 yrs ago Post by Styrgwyr

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It's been a while since I last RPed and this sounds like an interesting place to start RPing again (If you'll have me) 

Name: Dorothy Baskerville

Age: 12

Gender: Female

Race: Human 

Appearance:

Personality:
Dorothy is equal parts haughty and childish. While she knows proper court etiquette and how to act with respect, she is too used to people around her humoring her whims as well as her blunt speech.

Abilities:
Dissolution - The pre-requisite ability of Alchemy. Performing alchemy requires breaking down objects and items into a cauldron of boiling liquid, mixing them, then reforming them into something new.

Appraise - As long as she can perceive it with her senses, she can identify the properties of an object. Though taste and touch are preferable and much more effective. 

Skills:
Alchemy - Dorothy is a peerless alchemist. She can make wonder items by combining the properties of more mundane items. She can take this to another level by combining two wonder items into an even more magnificent item and so on and so forth. The resulting product of her alchemy can come in the form of a potion, an item, a magical device or even a living creature like a homunculus.  

Backstory:
From the moment she had learned to speak, Dorothy had been called a prodigal genius. She was the pride and joy of the prestigious Baskervilles and it shows. At the mere age of 9 years old, Dorothy became a peerless alchemist. She concocted potions that cured any known disease, made items that can turn the every-man into legendary heroes, and her most popular feat: letting the elderly regain their youth, both in appearance and health. 

However, while her accomplishments were something to be celebrated at first, the consequences of her miraculous items were far-reaching and, for the most part, devastating in the long run. The potions that made old age a curable disease had rendered the inheritance system obsolete, triggering an age of rampant succession wars in the aristocracy. The potions that cured diseases increased the life expectancy of the general populace, setting off a population boom that the Kingdom was ill-equipped to accommodate. Resources quickly became scarce, and the economy was set to collapse. It was in this time of turmoil that the flags of rebellion were rose by the opportunistic enemies of the kingdom, its leaders armed by Dorothy's items.

These combined Crises broke the Kingdom, fracturing it into warring factions that sought to obtain the very origin of all this chaos, Dorothy Baskerville. 

It was then when her family home was surrounded and under heavy fire, that she received the letter. In her desperation, she didn't think much before slamming her hand on the word "Yes". 

Origin: Isekai

Well, this is my application.
She doesn't have any combat ability yet but I hope I can let her make some defensive items later in the story.

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And of Aspen? If plant revival is an issue, I can tweak it.

Hidden 5 yrs ago Post by Raineh Daze

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Certainly, anything that would allow the players to directly solve the issues threatening the community without engaging in any games undermines the premise. Though maybe that's just a flat impossibility and any changes will revert until permission is gained.

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He cannot solve the problem. He can help lessen it. Aspen can grow a plant in bad soil, but he cannot make bad soil fertile. Just as well, the edge of Nova Terra could be in such a state that not even he can grow anything there. It’s another world with its own rules. 

In line with his story and the premise given about the world in the OP, Aspen would not just stay there at the edge. He seeks a new place to take root and become a world tree. Anywhere but as close to the center as possible will not suit him. Basically he agreed to help under the assumption doing so will bring him closer to the center. He has a very valid story reason to move forward. If the Silver Sun chooses to settle, he’d move on his own leaving them behind and with him any amendments he brought to their situation. I figured he be used like a utility, not a solution. The silver Sun is in a horrid state, having an apple tree won’t suddenly improve their situation. He’s not a one man forest (yet), there is only so much he can do.

I can understand the folly of my previous characters. But cherry picking powers so that no one can help a struggling civilization beyond fighting to get back to the top seems a bit ludicrous.

I’m waiting for what the GM has to say, but I have no problem removing his ability to revive plants, making it so he can only grow and cultivate living plants. This way if things are as bad as described they’d have to move forward before he can make any meaningful impact.

Hidden 5 yrs ago Post by VitaVitaAR

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@Styrgwyr: This is a bit of a nitpick, but using Cagliostro for your faceclaim kind of throws me off given I know the character and how she acts. ^^; If you're willing to switch I'm willing to help you find something else, there's plenty of smug loli images.

I also think you need to punch up her skills a bit. We already have some natives who can address medical needs, so I think a good angle would to be going all in on her prodigal nature as an alchemist.

@Randomness: Going to have to say no to being able to grow plants from nothing and stuff. One of the big things is going to be regaining the land's fertility from the beginning, directly solving that immediately kind of hurts the RP.

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Again, he cannot directly solve the problem. Bad land will always be bad land until something changes. He also can't make plants spontaneously appear.

That said, I don't mind removing those particular abilities, the one where he can revive plants and the one where he can grow plants in bad soil (from a post-game / post-story perspective, he'd probably gain that ability once he becomes a world tree). Would he be eligible if his only power to plant-life were to grow and cultivate existing plants assuming they're alive. If the plant is living in bad soil doing so would only accelerate its death. In exchange to not undermine his power since he is a plant himself more or less, use his own body to grow fruitless weapons such as thorns, vines, and acids, perhaps armor made of bark?

Also I might be missing something, did the Silver Sun physically change locations with each loss, moving them to the literal edge of the world? Or is it more symbolic for how much they lost?

Hidden 5 yrs ago Post by Styrgwyr

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@VitaVitaAR

I was actually a bit iffy on using Cagliostro myself. I'd be happy if you can find me a similar pic or even just point me in the right direction. Though besides smug loli, I'm also looking for (anime)medieval fantasy attire~

As for punching up her skills. Wow, I don't think I've ever been told something like that before in an RP. I supposed this IS an Isekai after all.  XD

----

Actually, looking back at the sheet... are you sure? I may have been too subtle with how I typed her skills and powers. 
She has a lot of untapped potential hampered by her lack of inspiration. 

Maybe I should say what I have in mind for her future.

I mainly based her alchemy on the Atelier series, only more suped-up that normal. 

Besides health potions and youthful potions. She can make armies of intelligent homunculi that can be gifted with properties from materials(this could range from making them a little more durable to giving them abilities like pyrokinesis). Make weapons that can turn normal people into Heroes. Create Alchemical beasts or golems as war/heavy utility machines. Building materials that repair and adjust themselves.

Should I give her some powerful initial objects like a spatial ring or the like? Giving her powerful weapons from the start would negate her desperation to escape via isekai letter.

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Edit: Also you could also have made her a native to the place so she could have that amazing growth arc too! >-> just in case isekai growth is a little much

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@Styrgwyr: This clarifies a lot for me. As long as it's pretty clear she'll be able to do that even if she can't right now, she'd be considered someone valuable who could help restore Silver Sun.

We're going to be operating at a pretty high level very quickly, which is why I was looking for characters decidedly on the strong side of things.

As for images, sure, I'll start looking!

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And for the slight rework done to Aspen?

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@1Charak2
Sorry, not feeling this one.

And lol, I'm just too used to dampening my char's powers in RPs.

@VitaVitaAR
I did think of one other ability that she can use. 
Which is memorizing "properties" of materials she had used before and applying them to future alchemy products even without those materials. 
I could limit it to raw materials or 1st or 2nd level alchemy products or not put any limit to it at all. 

And for the equipment. Would a dimensional storage bag(filled with materials) be okay to carry over? 

EDIT:
I forgot to specify that her Homunculi are also capable of performing alchemy under her instruction(though not at the same level as her), even independently if need be.  

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@Randomness: It's better, but I'd need to see it properly written out.

@Styrgwyr: That works just fine.

As for images, how about this?

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