[OOC] The Prophecy

[cthulu]

I'm away until Sunday so I won't be able to post in the collab until Monday but I'l ltry and check in on the OOC/collab as much as I can.

[Dark Jack]

Shienvien said Hmm... Average adult human typically has a skull 16-18 cm wide, with a depth (distance from forehead to the back of head) of 20-22 cm. (6.3''-7'' and 7.9''-8.7'' respectively.) Skin, hair, et cetera would only add to the measurements... In other words, human skulls are pretty big things, and their jaws would have to be capable of opening up pretty wide to accommodate. And swallowing (I actually didn't go that far, I just pictured them taking half a head between their jaws) would be an entire different matter, especially since it has been stressed that they cannot expand their jawbones like snakes do... Neck-wise it would be okay, it's only jawbones that are questionable.
As for the yth width matter (aside of head) - I understood that the ten inches was at their widest. My statement was mostly derived from the fact they appear to be have fairly large heads, followed by three or four inches until the arms, which have been stated to be as thick and strong as average human arms (my own upper arms are maybe three and a half inches thick, so let's go with that for simplicity) begin... Well, there is not too much yth left after the arms. From the back of head to the underside of the last pair of arms would be over a foot. You'd also have to take account of the fact that the long arms make their upper bodies very massive, and accordingly, the hind body must be quite powerful to be of any use while moving or rearing up...

Yeah, I see what you mean... I'll admit that when I designed yths I did so more hurriedly and abruptly than with most of my other original species (usually I'll get the idea and ponder on it, thinking every detail over for at least several days and trying to picture it in my mind all the while before I even try to write a description) and I realize now that I was definitely off with some of the proportions because I only saw each part of the creature separately at the time and didn't try to make them match; even worse than that, I didn't even stop to think about whether I could have made a mistake after I'd designed them, I just went with it. Clearly some of the yth-dimensions will have to be altered, I see that now, and feel somewhat annoyed that I didn't realize this myself much, much earlier.
First of all the head clearly needs to be smaller; I'd say that if an adult yth can open its jaws 15 cm/5.9 inches that would be somewhat appropriate... This won't make them ridiculously oversized, I think, and will mean that they definitely can't go around swallowing people's heads but will still be able to bite down on most limbs and the throat. That's probably the best compromise in that regard, I think. Its body probably also needs to be a little thicker, particularly in the torso, so if I adjust that to average a full foot in width (excluding "shoulders") but only nine inches thick, that seems to suit it better... at least in my mental image. If the tail is then made a little thicker - let's say that rather than there being a sudden narrowing beneath the torso, the tail will rather adjust its width to more closely match the thickness of it and then narrow towards the tip of the tail at a constant rate. And finally let's add an extra foot to the length of the tail (which I realize now, horrifyingly, is actually close to an increase of 30% its previous length even with the head being downsized), bringing an adult yth up to a total average length of six feet. The arms will remain as they are now.
Hmm... in my head that seems more realistic. What do you think?

[Ashgan]

All right, accompanying my latest IC post: first of all, I made a few mild assumptions on Gerald's most likely behavior regarding the casting of his spell. I wasn't comfortable with it, but I don't think I wrote anything majorly inappropriate, and left room for elaboration. If you want me to edit any of the descriptions concerning that, I'll do so at once. The reason I went on is because I finally wanted to write the joint spell of the two, having waited for months to finally get it down. The uh, description is relatively flavorful and makes Jillian sound more powerful than she should be I think, but aside from the choice of words being a tad powerful, none of the descriptions were inaccurate, so I guess it's fine after all. Also, been a long time since I saw the compendium (would love to have access to it again), so I'm not 100% on whether or not I included all the necessary symptoms of almost-lethal magical exhaustion near the end.

[cthulu]

And back.

[Shienvien]

Note: got 2/3 of my posts written out, but since I was distracted, I couldn't finish. Will post and answer everything once back late today evening.

Edit: Apparently, I was more tired than I thought...

[cthulu]

Posted up Thaler, I'll wait for DJ to let me know if her attempt is successful or not now.

[Shienvien]

Okay, I am ... somewhat alive now. Maybe. I wonder whether I should withhold posting Aemoten until Jack's given the confirmation? Probably not... Aemoten is not really interacting with with Thaler in the part I already had typed out when Hymusia posted besides shouting her name in a half-shocked, half-surprised tone as she drops onto the stairs in front of him. He starts to go after her, but kind of freezes up when part two of Rilon shows up.

(Why, and she's cruel towards both Koraakan and Aemoten...)

[cthulu]

Yeah she is being cruel at the moment but its true from her POV.
Her friend, someone, that despite being her younger, she REALLY admires is dying. When her deal was that Koraakan would keep them SAFE. Which he isn't if Jaelnec's been poisoned. Olan and him could both still die and ultimately the only one it will affect badly is Thaler. Aemoten just accepts death and Thaler CAN'T. The whole place could be burned to the ground by Rilon and the only one that would walk out would be Aemoten. I've never seen him accept responsibility for any wrong doing, they don't listen to Thaler or even contemplate her POV. No matter what she thinks she's made to feel stupid and evil for thinking that way, or has done since the beginning of this in game morning. Where as Olan despite saying 'yeah get rid of the sword' at least did it without belittling her at the same time and Jaelnec, from what I can tell, just doesn't want her to feel bad/sad/guilty for anything at the moment (might change when he realises this is 'all Thaler's fault' in Aemoten's opinion).
She's breaking and Aemoten hasn't done anything to help that fact what so ever, in fact he's fanned the flames more than Rilon has/had just by the way he's spoken to her.

[Shienvien]

Jaelnec isn't dieing, he is just largely paralyzed (which Aemoten told Thaler is the effect of yth venom; without him telling Thaler wouldn't even know yths have venom, since based on your previous posts they were unknown beings to her). And Koraakan very concretely told Thaler that Rilon is going to show up and intercept, and that the deal will only go in effect once the sword has actually been obtained since the one cannot hold enough sway over the Blood God himself without it. - Thaler also never asked for their safety in general, just for protection from Rilon and his schemes and whatever minions and beings he sent at them.

As for Aemoten admitting when he is wrong, then he does do it, and has done so repeatedly during the course of the RP, both to others and himself. He tends to rant and say not particularly well thought-out things when he is angry or - in the given case - terrified out of his mind and afraid to lose everything he has once more, granted (there is however still a filter between what he might think and what he says - are you certain you don't attribute some of the narrative to the dialogue? I really can't explain where she's coming from otherwise...), and he is already a miserable mental wreck at the moment... Then again, Thaler herself has not exactly been reasonable, either. Aemoten never actually belittled her (though interpretations may vary) and has made certain to keep his voice down at all times, and doesn't actually believe she did anything wrong besides talking a bit too loudly (if you recall, Aemoten's response to Jaelnec's inquiry about what was going on was "Rilon happened," not anything that would set blame on Thaler), and actually repeatedly tried to reassure her and asked what she thought they should or could do under the given circumstances, which she just completely ignored. For the most part he's simply been "I will stay beside you whatever you do, but please get rid of this thing before everyone realizes you have it [...] and don't do that, that is a bad idea." (And has probably repeated it more than just a few times too many.)

Oeh... Let's just hope it'll be over soon. They all need a break. Seriously.

[cthulu]

Yeah, they really do but I don't see Zerul holding any peace for them honestly.

[Dark Jack]

Eh... Two things about the Koraakan-post, the first of which is that it can hardly be said that Rilon did nothing to stop the One's tail and tail-spikes from tearing his arm apart when fire is venting through his wounds, and the tail is pretty much wrapped around a very much wounded arm. The second and more worrying thing is concerning the fact that Koraakan just named itself all-knowing in regards to all things past and present, citing that the only advantage the Oracle had was in knowing the future (which she doesn't, per se... she can only see the consequences of choice, and calculate the odds of events taking place and their outcome depending on decisions made). I can't help but to feel that the One having unlimited knowledge of all things is somewhat overpowered (especially considering that its knowledge is apparently so detailed that it knows what Rilon is thinking at any given moment) and that there being some kind of limits to its knowledge would probably be fair... but I'm also (still - I think I mentioned this already, long ago) concerned about it seeming a bit illogical that the group - Aemoten in particular - would undertake their quest in the first place when it would be much faster and easier to just make a bargain for a cure for the Withering, since Koraakan - being all-knowing - would obviously know exactly how such a thing could be accomplished.
Unless of course you explained to me why that wouldn't work back then and I just forgot, I think there needs to be a reason why such a thing could not be done.

(On another note I can also point out that Koraakan was definitely downright wrong in one of his observations about Rilon: the Blood God definitely cares about family. Very much so. His sister is very important to him.)

[Shienvien]

I did notice the bit about the flames, but concluded that the same as applied to the rest would apply to Koraakan's tail, too - as in, the flames would be passively burning off the scales, layer by layer - which would have lesser effect due to the fact that the One is actually actively growing addition to that part of oneself.

I actually covered the bit about the limitations of the Weighter's omniscience in the old OoC - namely, there is no "would be" for Koraakan at all, not even in terms of painfully obvious things. (If I picked my teacup up, held it next to myself above the bare floor, and then asked whether it'd hit the floor if I let go of it, it would yield no result whatsoever. That question cannot be answered.) The only way the Six-Eyed God has anything akin to predictions or logical derivations from the events of past or present is through the karakon (which is actually what is being used here, too; also note that during normal bargains, you won't get a karakon's assumptions, you essentially get what could be considered raw data, which incidentally might simply tear your mind apart depending on the type and quantity) - and the karakon, while having access to the knowledge and being immune to simply going insane from it, are otherwise as slow in sorting through it and as capable of making false conclusions as any mortal. (As it is, there is obviously a focus set on what Rilon is thinking.) - Here I will also note that I am writing Nkaa Raakan in a bit more ... humanized way than the One actually is. I could try to give a more apt depiction, I suppose, but it wouldn't read as conveniently...
Am I making sense?

(Removed the bit about Rilon not caring about family ties, though.)

[Dark Jack]

Hmm... so in other words Koraakan does not only lacking knowledge of the future or anything that has not yet been carried out or done already, but lacks even mundane foresight into events? It is incapable of telling whether anything will happen before it already has? In other words, if Rilon was to swing his fist at Koraakan, the One would not actually view the swing as a punch or consider it a threat altogether until the moment the fist made contact? Or do you mean that the One will simply not share antyhing that it doesn't know with certainty?
I'm also thinking that since Koraakan is apparently in possession of the knowledge and thoughts of all other beings (or at least the ones it concentrates on), wouldn't the fact that several beings throughout the Planes know what causes the Withering mean that the One knows as well? And wouldn't the fact that another several beings strongly suspect - and at least one knows for certain - how to end the Withering mean that Koraakan knew this, too? What's stopping the One in just focusing on the Oracle and learning everything she knows by knowing what she... ugh, that one got weird quickly.
And I presume that Koraakan's tail-spikes are unaffected by the flames altogether?

[Shienvien]

Well, more or less... As long as it is not unbendable - and nothing set in the future is - then Nkaa Raakan oneself does not deal with it. It is because of that why the One as the Weighter is essentially using another mind (or, well, two actually, but this would get even more complicated to explain) to determine how the physical form will act.
Uhh... And how exactly does Nilick's mind and predicting work? I kind of assumed that she would draw the information up and do the probabilities when asked, not calculate in advance... And how would it all with interact with her slumber?
(Meanwhile, I'll try to come up with an eloquent explanation as to how the management of information with Koraakan actually works - as I woke up around four in the morning, I am pretty much feeling like going back to sleep right now. In any case, the sheer vastness of the amount of information in the world makes the handling of it - as it would reach mortals - that much more complicated.)

As for the tail-spikes, then the damage done to those within the time-frame those have been subjected to the flames can be considered insignificant.

[cthulu]

@DJ does Thaler haz pet?
@Shien I hope she's not successful because she's gonna be even more pissed if Aemoten goes and kills the closest thing to a weapon they have XD

[Shienvien]

How does yth make weapon? Yth bite god?

(...It would take a whole deal of power and complexity from her words to control this supposedly highly intelligent and driven-mad beast for more than two or three seconds. I somehow imagine it would be as hard - if not even harder - to control as the average human.)

[cthulu]

Which she can do, or don't you remember that is kinda the point of her words. People do what she says. For a limited time frame anyway.
And yeah pretty much, it bite gewd. She sets it on chibi Rilon, they all escape through the roof hatch and leave the two childish gods squabbling for X amount of time before they realise that they've left.
Then they all go to Zerual and have a big street party and light lanterns and have fun.
It'll be like a musical..less like the opera its turning into. :P

[Shienvien]

And in the end, the only reasonable person in the group is Etakar, since he's been trying to suggest just leaving through the hatch and simply getting away from the battling gods for a while. XP

(Yes, I recall what her words do... It's just "go and bite that person there, and not any other; also don't walk over those guys lying on ground and just ignore those other guys trying to poke holes in you, m'kay?" is much more complex than "back down", "sleep", "stop", "kneel" or some such command, and making it last for long enough on a half-mad being that's all "Freedom!!!" and isn't even humanoid (at least in my mind, mind-controlling things that are different from you is always much more hard to do than controlling ones similar to you) will only add to the load. Back in the old RP, you stated that using the word thrice in one day is pretty much her last limit...
Hmm... And what's stopping Rilon (as a much more powerful user of proper true words and the one who first convinced the beast to get free) from simply going "Oh, you want to play this game? Okay! Stop. Turn. Kill." Or just making the yth's head explode, making himself immune to being bitten, or doing any other counteractive thing being a deity makes relatively easy - appearances are deceptive with them, after all, and the only reason Rilon might be a bit weaker now is the fact that the main part of him is trying to not lose the Black Thorn against another deity. ...Ehh, Shien, just stop thinking, will you?)

[Dark Jack]

Shienvien said Uhh... And how exactly does Nilick's mind and predicting work? I kind of assumed that she would draw the information up and do the probabilities when asked, not calculate in advance... And how would it all with interact with her slumber?

The problem with Nilick is that she doesn't really actively think about the things she wants to conjure knowledge about in the sense that she has to remember them or otherwise concentrate on them to make them fresh in her mind; rather her knowledge of everything that has ever happened, is happening and may ever happen is always fresh in her mind and always readily available. The sheer enormity of the stress this puts on her is why she needs to sleep a thousand years every time she spends one day awake, because if she didn't, her mind would pretty much just... I don't even know. Cease functioning altogether, probably, reducing her to a drooling vegetable, which is close to happening at the end of each of those single days she spends awake anyway. Even when she sleeps all of the Oracle's knowledge is still there, in the foreground of her mind, but she is not conscious of it... Her mind is shut off during this time, and there is literally nothing left in her but all knowledge about everything.

cthulu said @DJ does Thaler haz pet?

Shienvien said (...It would take a whole deal of power and complexity from her words to control this supposedly highly intelligent and driven-mad beast for more than two or three seconds. I somehow imagine it would be as hard - if not even harder - to control as the average human.

Shienvien said (Yes, I recall what her words do... It's just "go and bite that person there, and not any other; also don't walk over those guys lying on ground and just ignore those other guys trying to poke holes in you, m'kay?" is much more complex than "back down", "sleep", "stop", "kneel" or some such command, and making it last for long enough on a half-mad being that's all "Freedom!!!" and isn't even humanoid (at least in my mind, mind-controlling things that are different from you is always much more hard to do than controlling ones similar to you) will only add to the load. Back in the old RP, you stated that using the word thrice in one day is pretty much her last limit...

See, this is where it all comes down to the difference between Thaler's True Words and the deities' True Words... for one thing the sentence Thaler spoke just then - "Serve me" - has no power in the deities' True Words because their commands are firstly always single-worded, and secondly because only True Verbs and a few names of epic importance have power in it, whereas the rest are simply there, mundane aside from being the equivalent in all other languages in existence. For another, while the deities' commands are controlled and directed by the will of the speaker so that only the speaker's interpretation has any influence over it, it was once determined that Thaler's commands rely more on the target's interpretation. And finally, while the perfect True Words command reality itself and bend the Planes to them (more or less), Thaler's imperfect ones only command the minds of beings, and only do so if the target cannot muster the will and strength to resist.
That said, I don't know for certain whether her command would work yet... I think I will write a post once I feel capable of doing so, and will assume direct control of the yth as I do that to better understand it and know whether it would succumb. There are several things that should be pointed out about this yth, though: this particular specimen is approximately ten feet long and nearly two feet wide across the shoulders, and its entire form is swelling so enormously with muscle that it's pretty much fit to burst; it is by no means as intelligent as the yth Aemoten fought, and even less so than the one Jaelnec killed, although it is pretty much fearless; and finally, it is a lot less concerned with freedom than it is with "HUNRGY! THIRSTY! NEED PIAAN!"... Yeah, as that last bit would suggest this yth is actually quite stupid and impressionable, but it is also absolutely frenzied and experiencing piaan-withdrawal, which is not pleasant.
Will it serve Thaler? Depends on how it ends up interpreting her command, and what it thinks of it. And regardless of whether the Words actually work or not, "serve" is indeed a lot more complex than many other single-action commands... I doubt that it would actually make the yth enter servitude under her, even for a short time, as much as it would just confuse it.

Shit is still on my plate here so I can't pull myself together to post just yet, but hopefully things will calm down soon so I can get my head back on straight and find my characters somewhere in there.

[cthulu]

@Dj No problem as I'm said totally here if you need me
@Shien it was either try or die, she tried. I don't think her words are all powerful and never have its why she uses them sparingly and i always tell people she uses them on that they may not work because they are imperfect. Don't try and make me feel bad OOC because yeah I was pretty sure it would fail but IC Thaler has no weapons and no other way of stopping a Yth of this size. I'm playing her realistically and realistic people are flawed. A quote I heard recently is rather befitting of Thaler in fact, 'I'm made up of flaws held together by good intentions'. I don't and never will play an all powerful never makes a mistake always wins servant of the light that never falters because they're boring. And my comment about her sending it to bite Rilon's chibi form was her plan, which is no better or worse than making her give up the sword or not sanctifying the area or so on. Just want you to realize just because she's making mistakes doesn't mean I'm delusional or thick, I'm playing as her not as a computer controlling her. She's flawed, broken and suicidal, your pretty lucky (it took me 3 days to convince her!) she didn't just leap on the Yth and let it rip her in two.
@All Just because Thaler's acting like an imbecile doesn't mean I as her player can't see what she's doing, just thought I ought to point that out.

DISCLAIMER: As the internet doesn't carry emotion, I'm not implying (or trying to imply anyway) anything nor am I trying to have an argument with anyone, just felt that there was some stuff that needed pointing out.