The Unpopular Opinions Thread.

[Weird Tales]

Andy Dalton is a nerd

[Dolerman]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

also the Amazing Atheist isn't MRA.

@Weird Tales

But a lot of his fans are.

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

It seems like you're cherry picking. Classic SJW tactic

@Weird Tales

ess jay dub

[Weird Tales]

<Snipped quote by Weird Tales>

But a lot of his fans are.

<Snipped quote by Weird Tales>

ess jay dub

@Dynamo Frokane

SJW starter kit

[Vilageidiotx]

where are you guys buying all these starter kits?

[Weird Tales]

where are you guys buying all these starter kits?

@Vilageidiotx

A cool little place in Seattle WA, they also have stores in California and Portland Oregon

[Jotunn Draugr]

SJW's are socially inept lunatics. Likewise, most people who base their lives around the internet and identify as MRA's show signs of Asperger Syndrome. This makes SJW's look even worse, in my opinion, because their only method of attack is to stereotype their opponents as having an actual disability. For a group of people who use the term "ableist" a lot, they sure are pretty fucking ableist.

Also, if you think racism and sexism are actually still problems in western society, go to any other fucking place on Earth, and talk to the people there. If you want to see real racism, go to a small city in China, into the poor parts of South Africa, or to Romania. If you want to see what real sexism and homophobia looks like, go to Saudi Arabia, or Egypt, or Afghanistan, or Iran, or fucking India. Talk to a man from Nanjing about the Japanese, a Romanian about the Turks, or a South African about white people, if you want to hear what real hatred sounds like.

When Americans freak out, because someone dares state a preference against black people, for whatever reason, Chinese people just laugh. This kind of political correctness is why many of them think of white people as simple-minded, spineless pussies.

[Jotunn Draugr]

<Snipped quote by Vilageidiotx>

A cool little place in Seattle WA, they also have stores in California and Portland Oregon

@Weird Tales

They're on every corner in Toronto.

[Vilageidiotx]

Also, if you think racism and sexism are actually still problems in western society, go to any other fucking place on Earth, and talk to the people there. If you want to see real racism, go to a small city in China, into the poor parts of South Africa, or to Romania. If you want to see what real sexism and homophobia looks like, go to Saudi Arabia, or Egypt, or Afghanistan, or Iran, or fucking India. Talk to a man from Nanjing about the Japanese, a Romanian about the Turks, or a South African about white people, if you want to hear what real hatred sounds like.

When Americans freak out, because someone dares state a preference against black people, for whatever reason, Chinese people just laugh. This kind of political correctness is why many of them think of white people as simple-minded, spineless pussies.

@Jotunn Draugr

I don't think the law should be "There isn't a problem if somewhere somebody else is doing worse." I mean, you don't stop a murder trial because the murder rate in Somalia is higher than it is in your western country.

The thing with SJW's is all a matter of optics. There are a lot of people in that field that are rather level headed and focus on things with some level of philosophical consistency, then there is a lot of teenagers and college freshmen who just want to yell at people. The MRA movement might be the same way, though I admit I've only ran across MRA's in the context of complaining above feminism. But if you show me an MRA who is actually focused on, like, child support reform or something like that, then I think most of us would agree that guy is cool.

So really the thing is you gotta keep in mind not to judge a movement by its most extreme example. Can't judge SJW's by the echo chamber part of tumblr. Just like you can't judge Christianity by WBC, can't judge the right by Neo-Nazi's, the left by Stalinists, or the Trump campaign by Donald Trump.

[Jotunn Draugr]

<Snipped quote by Jotunn Draugr>

I don't think the law should be "There isn't a problem if somewhere somebody else is doing worse." I mean, you don't stop a murder trial because the murder rate in Somalia is higher than it is in your western country.

The thing with SJW's is all a matter of optics. There are a lot of people in that field that are rather level headed and focus on things with some level of philosophical consistency, then there is a lot of teenagers and college freshmen who just want to yell at people. The MRA movement might be the same way, though I admit I've only ran across MRA's in the context of complaining above feminism. But if you show me an MRA who is actually focused on, like, child support reform or something like that, then I think most of us would agree that guy is cool.

So really the thing is you gotta keep in mind not to judge a movement by its most extreme example. Can't judge SJW's by the echo chamber part of tumblr. Just like you can't judge Christianity by WBC, can't judge the right by Neo-Nazi's, the left by Stalinists, or the Trump campaign by Donald Trump.

@Vilageidiotx

As far as all movements having a range, you're not wrong. There are plenty of reasonable people who consider themselves feminists, and even warriors of social justice. Heck, a good friend of mine is a die-hard Maoist communist, and he's one of the most level-headed people I know. Likewise, one of the most respectable men I've ever known, a former boss of mine, is a Pentecostal Christian who believes the Illuminati control the government. There are people in any subset of humanity, who can still be wonderful human beings either way. I'd even go so far as to say you can't judge all Neo-Nazi's, all Stalinists, all Wesboro Baptists, or all Donald Trumps XD

As such, maybe I should frame the argument in terms of popular trends. There is a popular trend among self-identified feminists and SJW's, to describe MRA's as essentially having actual debilitating disorders. For a group of people who supposedly uphold values of inclusiveness and support for the downtrodden and the socially unaccepted, it seems odd that such an insensitive trend would be so prevalent. So prevalent, in fact, that we all immediately recognize it, and get the joke. I'm not saying I personally have a problem with it, but it just seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Also, pardon me. I didn't mean that it's okay to be "X" because someone else is even more "X". Looking back, I realize I didn't articulate it that well. I was more thinking along the lines of "Chinese people are extremely racist, and even then it's hardly a problem. If it's hardly a problem, in countries that we'd consider to be extremely racist, it surely isn't a problem at all in the West".
As a non-Chinese person, living in a smaller Chinese city, you constantly have people staring at you, making off-hand comments about "foreigners", trying to overcharge you when you buy things, and occasionally wanting to befriend you simply due to the novelty of it. None of this affects the actual important aspects of your life in any meaningful way. If you are qualified, and now how to impress the locals, you can get a job without difficulty. If you speak their language and pander to their culture, you'll have no problem shopping, eating, or traveling. If you take care of yourself, and are charismatic, you can find friends, connections, and a wife. Black, white, brown, asian, hispanic, these things are true for all races in almost every country.

When there isn't actual institutional oppression like slavery, the fight against bigotry almost always comes from a certain wealthy class of people, who don't have to worry seriously about comfort, health and security. Instead of fighting for success and safety, they start fighting for petty minor comforts and peeves. You only start complaining about the old racist/sexist/homophobic men on the bus who keep staring at you, when you've got a satisfied stomach, and you're traveling from a nice home to a nice job.



Basically, my point is that no actual black people were harmed in the making of this commercial, nor will they be harmed because of it. This type of content panders to actual racists with actual bigoted opinions, and yet still, no notable harm is done. Now take the West, which is the least racist part of the world by far. Any kind of racial discrimination is already illegal, and racism is so hated, that actual racists are either in hiding, or are pushed out of society. Even still, you have certain SJW's complaining about "racism", and raising a fuss. At this point, I think their protests and complaints serve to only make movements for social justice look petty and unnecessary, rather than actually highlighting any worthwhile concerns.

[Vilageidiotx]

There is a reason to worry about the racist/sexist/homophobic man staring at you on the bus though. If it were true that all angry staring can ever amount to is angry staring, or that all racism could ever amount to is awkward jokes, then I'd probably take it all less seriously. But there is in a hateful stare the thin possibility of real violence. And if somebody is constantly dealing with thin threats of violence like that all the time... yeh, they are going to say something.

I think this might be a key to understanding some of the shit the left says. Nobody knows if, or when for that matter, the passive aggressive everyday sort of bigotry might explode into a full blow extermination campaign (barring sexism obviously lol). It's ridiculously unlikely of course, but if you are a Mexican or a Muslim watching something like a Trump Rally and you see all these people spewing hate of you and your kind, how can you not be worried that this might escalate? And if it does escalate, well, you're the target.

I think its kind of like reading something like the SCUM manifesto if you are a regular guy. Sure, there is no chance that will happen, but the idea of it is uncomfortable even if it mostly seems like reading a train wreck. Well, with minorities the possibility of a pogrom of some sort isn't impossible. It has happened. Plenty of times.

So I guess to paraphrase, the reason I think the left gets so worried about these things is because, for them, in the back of their minds, they are worried society is one step away from the right wing going rabid and committing a mass murder. Or for women, whether or not what they have won might be reversed in another conservative revolution of some sort.

[Jotunn Draugr]

@Vilageidiotx

I know what you mean, and I understand why the Left thinks the way it does. Generally speaking, I do consider myself to be left-wing.

However, I do think that the left is fulfilling their own prophecy. The hyper anti-racism mentality in Europe, that is informing supremely lax immigration policies, is only creating more and more racial tension and disenfranchised white people, which is just fueling the fire for actual Fascists, Nazis, and white supremacists. Out of fear of the Right, they've swung so far to the Left that they're actually making Neo-Nazis look like the more reasonable choice to a lot of people.

Likewise, I genuinely believe that Trump is a monster of the Left's creation. If they didn't push so hard, and so far, with immigration, with affirmative action, with economic globalization, with race hyper-awareness, with social justice education in school, with gender quotas, with language policing, they wouldn't have alienated so many people. They wouldn't have pushed so many people into Trump's camp, simply because he's SOMEHOW become the safer, more reasonable option. If Billy-Bob wasn't homeless, because Chinese immigration and overseas housing speculation made housing prices so high that he can't even afford to rent, he wouldn't be voting for Trump. If Jenny-Jane hadn't gone 10 years without a raise, because Mexican guest-workers are willing to work just as hard for minimum wage, she wouldn't be voting for Trump. If Jamisonson Pennyworth wasn't blocked from attending the university of his dreams, because they were required to accept more women and minorities instead, even though their grades were lower than his, he wouldn't be voting for Trump. If Marko Stromboulopoulos wasn't banned from Facebook and Twitter for protesting against Islam's treatment of women, he wouldn't be voting for Trump. If Brock Logan wasn't fired from his job, simply because word got around that he was upset his daughter was dating a black man, he wouldn't be voting for Trump.

And if all these people were allowed to say what their problems were, without being called "racists", they wouldn't be voting for Trump.

I think if people really wanted to stop the rise of Nazism, and Fascism, and wanted to prevent an actual race-war, they'd stop being such giant, totalitarian pussies. I know Marxists, Racists, Sexists, Nazis, Feminists, Christian fundamentalists, Sikh fundamentalists, Jews, Buddhists, black and white South Africans, and even a Satanist, and they're all completely reasonable people... so long as nobody is stepping on their toes and getting in the way of their day-to-day life. It's when you threaten them, and vilify them, and set up systems to silence and restrain them, that they start organizing and actually hurting people.

Edit: And violence is already illegal. The policy of making the punishment significantly worse, simply because the race of the two parties is different ("hate-crimes"), only serves to make people more and more hyper-aware of racial differences. If you want people to stop paying attention to race, stop talking about race all the damn time!

[Vilageidiotx]

@Vilageidiotx

I know what you mean, and I understand why the Left thinks the way it does. Generally speaking, I do consider myself to be left-wing.

However, I do think that the left is fulfilling their own prophecy. The hyper anti-racism mentality in Europe, that is informing supremely lax immigration policies, is only creating more and more racial tension and disenfranchised white people, which is just fueling the fire for actual Fascists, Nazis, and white supremacists. Out of fear of the Right, they've swung so far to the Left that they're actually making Neo-Nazis look like the more reasonable choice to a lot of people.

Likewise, I genuinely believe that Trump is a monster of the Left's creation. If they didn't push so hard, and so far, with immigration, with affirmative action, with economic globalization, with race hyper-awareness, with social justice education in school, with gender quotas, with language policing, they wouldn't have alienated so many people. They wouldn't have pushed so many people into Trump's camp, simply because he's SOMEHOW become the safer, more reasonable option. If Billy-Bob wasn't homeless, because Chinese immigration and overseas housing speculation made housing prices so high that he can't even afford to rent, he wouldn't be voting for Trump. If Jenny-Jane hadn't gone 10 years without a raise, because Mexican guest-workers are willing to work just as hard for minimum wage, she wouldn't be voting for Trump. If Jamisonson Pennyworth wasn't blocked from attending the university of his dreams, because they were required to accept more women and minorities instead, even though their grades were lower than his, he wouldn't be voting for Trump. If Marko Stromboulopoulos wasn't banned from Facebook and Twitter for protesting against Islam's treatment of women, he wouldn't be voting for Trump. If Brock Logan wasn't fired from his job, simply because word got around that he was upset his daughter was dating a black man, he wouldn't be voting for Trump.

And if all these people were allowed to say what their problems were, without being called "racists", they wouldn't be voting for Trump.

I think if people really wanted to stop the rise of Nazism, and Fascism, and wanted to prevent an actual race-war, they'd stop being such giant, totalitarian pussies. I know Marxists, Racists, Sexists, Nazis, Feminists, Christian fundamentalists, Sikh fundamentalists, Jews, Buddhists, black and white South Africans, and even a Satanist, and they're all completely reasonable people... so long as nobody is stepping on their toes and getting in the way of their day-to-day life. It's when you threaten them, and vilify them, and set up systems to silence and restrain them, that they start organizing and actually hurting people.

Edit: And violence is already illegal. The policy of making the punishment significantly worse, simply because the race of the two parties is different ("hate-crimes"), only serves to make people more and more hyper-aware of racial differences. If you want people to stop paying attention to race, stop talking about race all the damn time!

@Jotunn Draugr

I generally agree with you sorta kinda, though I think the real problem isn't so much that the social stuff has veered too far into unnecessary shit, but that the real problems everyday people face are not getting taken care of. And you pretty much alluded to the same thing yourself with your individual examples. The left, having became so afraid or unwilling to go back to a serious criticism of capitalism (especially in the United States), has got into this habit of ignoring the realities of working class life. This is the main reason I don't consider myself a Democrat. They aren't offering real answers, or even properly addressing the looming economic problem that we are running headlong into. So no matter how blatantly dangerous Trump may be, its hard to get on board with the other side because there is no evidence that Clinton would do anything for anybody outside of her social circle.

It is dangerous to tell people there is no problem when they clearly see and feel a problem. The left is failing, or at least only making anemic attempts, to handle this element. So whereas I think some of your people in your examples are wrongly diagnosing the problem (No Jenny-Jane, the cause of your lack of a raise isn't immigration, it's wage stagnation), their misdiagnoses are understandable. The Dems are telling you everything is fine. Trump is telling you the problem is easy to fix, and that all you have to do is build a wall and drag some abuelas out of their apartments to toss across it. His answer might be useless, but at least he is giving you a fucking answer.

[Dolerman]

I do think that the MRA crowd especially when overlaps into the Gamergate and libertarian spehres is where you get these, Beta Male, Roosh V supporting, Pseudo-Rightwing numbnuts like the ones described in my starter pack.

If I see a normal egalatarian male who is generally concerned for the custody rights of men and is getting off his ass to do something about it, if he were to describe himself as part of the Men's rights movement, I'd have a lot of respect for him.

But when you get these blank identity college age reactionaries. Who struggle with women and need a trollish cult like movement to be part of to make themselves feel important.

I think @Weird Tales has an issue with me because while he cant deny that he is a Pro-gamergate Libertarian, MRA, I can actively assert that I'm not a Socialist, SJW, Feminist.

I can actively say I dont agree with Anita Sarkeesian or Russel Brand

He cant actively say he doesn't agree with Roosh V or Milo Yiannopolous

I can actively say I dont support #BlackLivesMatter

He cant actively say he doesn't agree with 'race realism'

This is the problem when you tie yourself to a group and ideology, you become suffocated by the politics of your own movement. Rad-Feminists and Regressives do suck. But by siding with dickheads like Roosh and Stefan Molyneux and supporting Bias dumb-dumb Canadian troll bait like The Rebel you are making yourself look stupid by association.

Just ditch those groups and think for yourself.

[Fabricant451]

ALL Video Games Suck since 2014

@Dynamo Frokane

And here I thought hating on video games and popular things was MY shtick!

[Dolerman]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

And here I thought hating on video games and popular things was MY shtick!

@Fabricant451

Well not when you look at the title of the thread.

[vancexentan]

I strongly feel that the gm shouldn't be the only one contributing too the story. A GM sets the ground work and he or she shouldn't be the only one moving the plot along. Players should interact with, and alter the plot with character choices, and interactions. However people are often too afraid to do so, too complacent to do so, don't want to incur the gm's wrath, or are simply too lazy to bother.

[ClocktowerEchos]

When Americans freak out, because someone dares state a preference against black people, for whatever reason, Chinese people just laugh. This kind of political correctness is why many of them think of white people as simple-minded, spineless pussies.

@Jotunn Draugr

As a Chinese person I can sort of confirm this. I know I've had moments as well as Asian friends who honestly don't know what the fuck is happening anymore except there's some big clusterfuck that we've some how managed to avoid for the most part luckily but we can kinda see that neither side is right but both sides are wrong moments.

On one hand you have BLM which has always made me wonder why asians don't have something close to it. I ain't putting anyone down historically, but Asians also got shit on a lot in America in a similiar fashion to Blacks but I don't see anyone spouting "Chinese Lives Matter" signs anywhere nor any Asians protesting about their unfair treatment in America. (sidenote, I've always been told that Asians do have a disadvantage in America by Chinese parents but Asians have always just ignored it and said "fuck your standards, lemme show you how its done" and never really complained about it and this has some how made Asians into a "model minority". Dunno how true this statement is though.)

On the other hand you have whites on both the right and the left. The right Chinese people tend to hate for the most part for obvious reasons (KKK, historical discrimination, etc, all that good stuff). The left however is also looking a bit stupid since you got BLM and anti-racism things except most of that doesn't apply to Asians. Again, no ALM or banning of the word Chink or Jap. It might just be my upbringing but I see the left's idea of "safe spaces" and censorship to be very, very stupid. If you don't want people to be offended, make them personally stronger and teach them to laugh at people who want to insult them, don't let them stay weak if there's a way to make them strong.

I'm left-wing myself although I will admit, social justice is one of those things that sound good on paper and is a good marketing ploy to young people but once you get into to the details and execution, shit just goes south quick. While I won't say all black people are aligned with BLM and its jank ass goals and ideology (they were complaining that while people were praying for Nice after the terror attacks that they were "fighting a civil war in America for their rights and freedoms") or that all white people are KKK in sheep's clothing or part of the SJW inquisition, I will say that as an observer in the whole social mess that's going on in America right now, I'm both glad that I don't have to deal with that shit and afraid of where the fuck this is leading up.

Seriously, if people could just learn inner personal strength and dedicated perseverance I'd think that most of this BLM/SJW stuff wouldn't be nearly as crazy as it is right now. Its work for us Asians for the past century or so and I'd like to say as a race in the America melting pot we're doing pretty well.

/endramblyrant

[Vilageidiotx]

In theory BLM is mostly about the entire getting shot phenomena.

Also, in my experience the people most racist about Asians is Asians. I think at least half of the Asian jokes i've ever heard have been told by Asians. And I am being conservative... if it turned out to be more like 80% I wouldn't be surprised. And that is not even bringing into account the inter-Asian racism thing. I remember a long time ago I worked with a girl from Hong Kong who was in the States as part of some sort of college work program, and she made it a hobby to dis the Chinese at every opportunity. It was bizarre for me as a Midwesterner who just sort of assumed Hong Kong was part of China, but she made sure to nip that assumption in the bud real quick.

[ClocktowerEchos]

You gotta remember, HK was seperated from China for a solid 100 years or so plus it never really got on with the while Maoism the rest of China got on with.

[Jotunn Draugr]

China's in this weird place, where its size changes depending who you ask. You ask someone from Beijing, and he'll tell you China rightfully owns Taiwan, Hong Kong, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, and a series of islands below Japan. You ask someone from Taiwan, they'll say they live in an independent nation. You ask someone from Japan, they'll say China has no right to the islands. You ask someone from Tibet, they'll say they're in the military-occupied state of Tibet. You ask someone from Hong Kong, they'll say Hong Kong is self-governing, and only technically a part of China.
Heck, you ask someone from the northern province of Nei-Mongol, and they'll tell you that they're Mongolian, not Chinese.

And yes, there's nothing an old Chinese man hates more, than an old Japanese man. Nothing an old Taiwanese man hates more, than an old Beijing man. And nothing a Chinese business-man hates more, than an Indian business-man.

Here's a question, for those who understand American law: If a Chinese man attacks an Indian man, will they call it a hate-crime? Or will they both be written off as "Asian"? Or will the Chinese man get off easy because he's a minority?