[OOC] The War of the Three

[Ryonara]

Done with the collab. Goodnight everyone.

[KoL]

@TheWindel, @Lonewolf685, @Lucius Cypher, @Flamelord, @Ryonara, @Unlucky0013, @Awesomoman64, @Mega Birb, @floodtalon, @The 42nd Gecko

---

Stop it for a moment. This battle isn't taking a single step forward before I get a few issues solved.

- 1st: Why is it that everyone in the area shrugged off the effects of the Leviathan's attack as if it was nothing? I admit that it takes a bit to be willing to just let your character die in one post and sit back for the rest of the battle but, no one took any real damage for it. I find this impossibly vexing.

- 2nd: Unless, either you @The 42nd Gecko give me a good justification, or @TheWindel and @Lonewolf685 are willing to let this continue, Miyu's last turn was completely void. Simply because she keeps pulling items that she has no access of. On her CS currently there's, the Mecha, its weapons, a pistol and a pair of glasses, not speed boats and air strike weaponry, I let the boats go because Lone asked, saying that you wouldn't escalate the issue, but I can't put up with you doing this anymore.

- 3rd: Know that, even if you drop the meteor now, it'll be useless. On the next Update the Leviathan will be strong enough to shoot it down before it does any damage/works at all. I'm telling you this, before, so that you know don't complain when that happens. Furthermore, if all players could shrug off his attack before, why couldn't it, who's a boss, use its power to shrug off the rock?

- 4th: The Ascalon can one shot the Full Powered Leviathan only if you can find a way to strike its heart, otherwise it's greatly damaging, but not instant doom for it.

I think these cover most of it. I would really like avoid these public calls, but I find it very uncomfortable to watch the battle going as it's. I supposed that playing fair would be more entertaining, thus I even let a good attack kill Victoire, despite the fact that she was doing great by following the rules while securing the victory of the Demons with precise moves, and I trying as best as I could to coordinate actions in the OOC and clear doubts, as I did with @floodtalon a few times, to ensure Victoire and Henry were on the same pag. However, it was not enough to inspire people to at least try to play fair and fun, since my main reason to have a character going it to serve as an example, in case people need directions to follow.

Again, I apologize for those who don't need to be called like this, but this is a message that should be handled publicly.

---

On another note, some issues (or better possible issues) rose up yesterday, while some of us were having a talk at a chatroom:

- 1st: Breaking off any faction's winning streak by forceful means (ie: compulsory defeat rules) to keep the RP balanced between the faction and avoid complaints about how someone always loses. Example: the Demons being barred to win the next battle (in case they win this one going), no matter how well they perform, or how lazy the enemy plays.

- 2nd: Building up on the above, to see if everyone was willing to comply with such ruling. In other words, acknowledge that, even if you play very well (or your enemies are lame), you might end up losing because of some Deus/Diabolus ex Machina, for the sake of keeping the War balanced between factions.

- 3rd: To avoid what happened on this battle, where one of the Factions was put at a heavy numerical disadvantage, to set up a minimum number of troops for every faction in each battle.

- 4th: Building on both of the above, to force players to not use the same character on each battle, having to rotate between at least two. Meaning that some players will have to create more characters, if this rule goes up.

- 5th: Continuing the above, that the limit of characters per player per battle would be lowered to one, to better accommodate the previous rules, without forcing players to create a troupe of characters (possibly shallow ones) just to use on this RP.

- 6th: To be sure that, whoever complies with these proposals for their advantage, also be sure that they can come around and bite you in the back, after you gave up on the right to complain or ask for a review.

So, that's the boiled down conversation and one of the choices was to ask everyone about it, so I'm taking the chance to do so (while no problems are happening), before these rules have to be tacked on the RP to solve any temporary hubbub and cause more damage than they help. What's everyone's opinion about this? Any suggestions are appreciated as well, as long as you mind that anything that gets officially agreed upon, will be the rule for everyone on the RP, as long as they are on a fair fight environment.

[The 42nd Gecko]

@KoL

1. By my math, Miyu was certainly 100% dead. Then Stark started firing at me. Unless Stark is supposed to be established as a blithering retard, he would probably not fire at an enemy that had just been crushed into in a 3 by 3 ft pile of scrap. Seeing Stark is Windel's character, I took him firing at me as an answer to my "hey, how strong is that attack?" question to be "not really, seeing Stark's firing at you" So, I thought it was clearance to survive from a GM.

2. If you wanna say I don't have access to normal grade Machina technology other than my Mecha and upgrades to it. That's fine. I assumed it was under the "generic reinforcement" powers that everyone has access too. Where another person might go "Hey, squad XYZ of NPC angels, charge with me" or "Hey, we'd probably have an anti-air guns on the Elicitor with awesome explodey rounds, even though that's not explicitly spelled out, let's fire it at said charging angels", I figured calling in some turrets from my cache of machina technology would be ok as long as they're not too special (And I figured not having auto-targetting or shields would be enough to say they weren't at Bastion Turret level). Can I at least call in say a care package of explosives so I can rig some traps?

3. If that's what you wanna do. Can't stop ya.

4. Righto.

Remaining Statement: Yup, the Demons did great, even while outnumbered.

~~

1. Has anyone been complaining about this? Also, Machina and Angel players have been wanting to team up vs the demons constantly. If the demons keep winning, that's a good motivation for that to happen.

2. Why is keeping the Status Quo a goal worth doing that for? I'm alright with Deus Ex Machina for good reasons, like, say, plot progression, but Deus Ex Machina to maintain our actions being meaningless seems less awesome.

3. So, a tool to force players to play characters/sides they don't like as much to enforce a degree of numerical equality, when in this battle the least numerous force is absolutely dominating?

4. ^

5. ^

6. I'm asking for a review, seeing I'm disagreeing with pretty much every point.

In summary, I'd really like to know what the problems you're trying to fix with these are, before giving counter suggestions.

The ones I can see are "Numerical Superiority" which is odd when the least character numerous faction is probably going to win this battle. And "Complaining about one Faction Winning" which I haven't seen happening. And "Things changing as a result of player actions" which I vehemently disagree with about that being a problem.

[KoL]

@The 42nd Gecko

Well, addressing everything in order:

- These posts are not written at the same time, sometimes even happen to be posted in a way that one doesn't mesh with the other very well, as a matter of everyone not being able to stay online at the same time. Furthermore, IC-wise, everyone acts at the same time, Stark shoot at Miyu, while the explosion was going off, or the Maids swimming nearby, it's not like the world stops from a post to another.

- If Miyu had used Angel reinforcements and NPCs, I wouldn't have asked about it, but, if you want her to have constant access to Machina weaponry that's not approved to her, have Miyu change factions. Also, no is my answer for your second question.

The rest is just opinion, so it doesn't matters for for the time being, to I appreciate your input about our discussion. It's not a problem that we were trying to fix, we were just curious to see everyone's opinions about those questions, nothing more. Those aren't rules we plan to apply right now, or ever, just hypotheses we were working with.

[The 42nd Gecko]

@KoL

1. "the orange arrows ricocheting off the ice to hit the targets of Miyu, Henry, and Dora" It's clearly established that the ice attack was finished before Stark attacked. He's even standing on a broken of shard of ice floating away from the center of the icy burst, implying some time has passed.

2. Aright. Well, thanks for giving me the speedboat shoes, or I wouldn't have been able to participate. I'll have to write up all the techno-gear her weapons factory she owns has produced, because her having access to angel subordinates is counter to her backstory.

~~

Also, if you wanted to guarantee each faction a win, one way to do so while serving a purpose other than balance would be to have each faction's leader show up for a fight to establish their awesomeness. We haven't even gotten to see the Imperator yet.

[The 42nd Gecko]

@floodtalon Well, it looks like my turrets aren't canon anymore. Do you want to collab and come up with a new fight scene for us? Or assume that Miyu was just using dummy looks-like turrets to try to scare people?

[TheWendil]

1. "the orange arrows ricocheting off the ice to hit the targets of Miyu, Henry, and Dora" It's clearly established that the ice attack was finished before Stark attacked. He's even standing on a broken of shard of ice floating away from the center of the icy burst, implying some time has passed.

@The 42nd Gecko

Actually I wrote that because the area is surrounded by ice. So the arrow bounced off all the ice because the area is fully of icy ice, right? No time passed with my post.

[KoL]

@The 42nd Gecko

- @TheWindel wrote that right after getting back from his vacation, he wasn't aware of everything going around, even then I don't think it damages the flow. Either way, I'm just help people realize that action goes on a smooth fluid, but this isn't a live action online game, on general, the same common rules from any RP should apply here.

- No problem, I just thought that there was a limit for how much she could pull without being an ally of the Machina. But, allowing people to play and enjoy it is our priority in the end.

---

You know what? This is actually an interesting suggestion, depending on what @TheWindel and @Lonewolf685 think, we can arrange this for the next battle, with either Eos or Deva dropping by, after a victory streak from the Demons.

[Awesomoman64]

<Snipped quote by The 42nd Gecko>

Actually I wrote that because the area is surrounded by ice. So the arrow bounced off all the ice because the area is fully of icy ice, right? No time passed with my post.

@TheWindel

I'm gonna have to say yes and no. It's established at the beginning the area is in the tropics and the waters are warm, making it impossible for there to be any ice until after the Leviathan uses its magic. And the ice before that was simply a burst of it as the Leviathan awoke. You could argue, however, Stark didn't take the time to see if Miyu was alive before firing?

@The 42nd Gecko

- @TheWindel wrote that right after getting back from his vacation, he wasn't aware of everything going around, even then I don't think it damages the flow. Either way, I'm just help people realize that action goes on a smooth fluid, but this isn't a live action online game, on general, the same common rules from any RP should apply here.

@KoL

I've actually been compiling a list of things that need some fixing/altering (in my opinion of course) and this is actually one of them. I was planning on posting it after the battle but since the subject is up would you want me to post what I've got so far?

[TheWendil]

I'm gonna have to say yes and no. It's established at the beginning the area is in the tropics and the waters are warm, making it impossible for there to be any ice until after the Leviathan uses its magic. And the ice before that was simply a burst of it as the Leviathan awoke. You could argue, however, Stark didn't take the time to see if Miyu was alive before firing?

@Awesomoman64

Or I can just say it's the ice from the Leviathan's initial burst of power?

[Awesomoman64]

@TheWindel

just before an icy eruption, like a glacial volcano, followed by a roar like that of no other beast made it clear,

@KoL

To me this sounds more like it's a bunch of ice shards and a few large chunks which yes you could bounce and arrow off of, but it doesn't match up with Stark standing on a glacier while firing.

[TheWendil]

To me this sounds more like it's a bunch of ice shards and a few large chunks which yes you could bounce and arrow off of, but it doesn't match up with Stark standing on a glacier while firing.

@Awesomoman64

I mean, a glacier is just a large ice chunk.

[Awesomoman64]

<Snipped quote by Awesomoman64>

I mean, a glacier is just a large ice chunk.

@TheWindel

...Well, you're not wrong.

Edit: Google can't decide either.

[Lucius Cypher]

@Awesomoman64

It's just semantics. Large chunk of ice, glacier, the point is that it's big enough for Stank to stand on so he can shoot his targets. We shouldn't get worked up about descriptive choices unless they are critically vital, and I doubt what kind of ice cube Stark stood on mattered. Hell, considering he's essentially robot legolas, he could have probs pulled off the shot in mid air.

[KoL]

@Awesomoman64

Erm, but the ice wouldn't melt in the same instant it was created, I mean it was enough quantity to bombard the whole sector with spikes big enough to destroy ships. It takes time (a few update posts for it to go away), especially once you figure what the Leviathan's real power is, for the ice to melt away.

Furthermore, this can just as easily be handwaved in the name of not overtly complicating the battle, just like with things such as movement and attack range, lets just not make this worse.

[Awesomoman64]

@KoL

Sorry, I must not have been very clear. What I meant was due to the climate of the area, there wouldn't have been any ice for Stark to stand on or aim until after the Leviathan's attack created it. However I think we've agreed the ice that came from the initial burst that was created upon it's awakening would be enough to achieve this.

Hey, if D&D has taught me anything, it's not an RP until someone pulls out the rule book and starts an argument XD

[KoL]

Hey, if D&D has taught me anything, it's not an RP until someone pulls out the rule book and starts an argument XD

@Awesomoman64

Actually, that was one of my favorite part of playing, since I'm kind of a rules lawyer. I just think that any rules that are in effect, exist to be followed. If you do a mistake, you are the only responsible for that.

Ad long ad the rules aren't bent on anyone's favor, the game is fair. Of course there are exceptions to this but they are few and far between. The game and having fun comes first than the rules but, without rules there's no way to arbitrate and without GMs no one can have fun.

*Drops the D&D 3.5 Rules Compendium over the desk.*

[TheWendil]

<Snipped quote by Awesomoman64>

Actually, that was one of my favorite part of playing, since I'm kind of a rules lawyer. I just think that any rules that are in effect, exist to be followed. If you do a mistake, you are the only responsible for that.

Ad long ad the rules aren't bent on anyone's favor, the game is fair. Of course there are exceptions to this but they are few and far between. The game and having fun comes first than the rules but, without rules there's no way to arbitrate and without GMs no one can have fun.

*Drops the D&D 3.5 Rules Compendium over the desk.*

@KoL

Ew. You're a Lawful Neutral? ಠ_ಠ

[Awesomoman64]

@KoL

That's how I feel about it too. Unless a house rule says otherwise you go by the book, else we descend into anarchy and chaos!

*Sets Pathfinder book on top of the 3.5* I'll just, leave this here.

[TheWendil]

@Awesomoman64

No, not another one!

*TheWindel is surrounded by goody Lawful Neutrals*