How can we help improve RPGuild? Community suggestions and discussion.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

It has nothing to do with moderators ensuring roleplays survive and everything to do with that it is acceptable, if not a norm, here on the Guild that users disappear with minimal and or no reprimand. "Do not leave a roleplay without saying." is a more general, universal, reasonable expectation, of course, but what happens when they don't?

There is already the argument I have heard that no one, or at least a number enough to bring it up, has any idea what "Fonz cool." is and how you regulate it. That by comparison is a far more subjective system and the list I read in this same topic levels at least half its criticism at the Staff.

Is having someone program an internal system to tag and monitor users going to take more work? Yes, of course it will. But any actual changes to the Guild or its coding, this or otherwise, is nothing but work. As is for multiple accounts, I am fairly confident a system exists already to monitor and or track those, perhaps on the most basic of levels by IP Addresses.

I have nothing further to add in terms of legitimate frustrations.

[Lady Absinthia]

The amount of work that would place on the mods shoulders is daunting at best, in some lights terrifying. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. They already have enough to do and need more people. Something like that would take several additional mods and I could see them easily getting burned out just from reviewing people.

It's the GM's job to police people in their RP's. That is part of the whole job of being an GM. As a Gm you set the rules, it is your job to enforce them in your RP - that includes how often people post and what to do to them if they don't. Mods are here for general forum rules.

[Hank]

@Lady Amalthea Agreed.

[Dion]

@The Harbinger of Ferocity I have to say I understand your frustration, I just don't see this as a right answer to the problem. A blacklist is more preferable, but even then, *who manages it* *can we manage it on site?* *If not where do we host it?*

I have a personal blacklist with names of people I don't want to roleplay with on my discord server. I suggest you make one too.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

The only way is to have someone considered impartial on the matter, or a section of them to do so, @Buddha. Again, we are all aware that the Staff are few and are only slightly delegates; few are dedicated to particular roles. There would need to be peer review and ensure no cases of personal bias manifest - such as by ensuring review is not initiated by someone with a stake in it or relation to the any of the people who are.

I can make them all I want, but leveraging complaints on Game Master's in my experience tends to be met with the, "Well, we will see if it works out this time, be hopeful." History tells me otherwise that this story ends well for no one.

[Hank]

The only way is to have someone considered impartial on the matter, or a section of them to do so, @Buddha. Again, we are all aware that the Staff are few and are only slightly delegates; few are dedicated to particular roles. There would need to be peer review and ensure no cases of personal bias manifest - such as by ensuring review is not initiated by someone with a stake in it or relation to the any of the people who are.

@The Harbinger of Ferocity

These are unrealistic expectations. Something that complex and time-consuming won't happen.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

Which was the root of my suggestion to implement a system to largely take the place of people, @Hank. Yes, it is asking too much and we are unlikely to see any remedy without it. It is a definitive lose-lose situation and why I said I have no other legitimate concerns that could be addressed.

[Lady Absinthia]

Without more mods and people able to do that, it is really an out of the ballpark thing - even if we did have enough people (unbiased) to fill the roll it could still be massively abused.

Thing is, if we want to see this type of "flaking" out stop, that is up to us as the Rpers and GM's. If you join an Rp and you see someone else join that has been a flaker in the past - tell the GM. Part of being an active Rper is to inform your GM via Pm when something goes wrong so they can handle it.

If you are a Gm and you run into someone new, check their history, and contact a previous GM of theirs. That's part of the responsibility you are taking on as a GM. As a Gm, they set the rules - they have to enforce them. If they aren't then might need to find a new GM.

I hate to say it but no system is going to take place of Rpers and Gm's keeping a watchful eye out on things. All it will do is create even more work and issues down the line. It is a good idea in theory but in practice, it just doesn't work. Been there and done that Admining and Moderating RP forums for decades. I have seen the warning systems, for something like this they just are not practical or effective. Warning systems are great for a moderator team in general - that way one mod knows when and why another mod warned a person. But that is for general RP rules only. For lack of posting, flaking, or disappearing - it just isn't a good thing.

[mickilennial]

All of these ideas seem to stem from the same source of a subjective and intolerant point-of-view, in my opinion. Ultimately, I agree with the sentiment of policing your own threads as you see fit but do not outwardly agree that any sort of reputation, karma, or blacklist system is productive as it only creates internal issues within the community. It is not being selective to impose these systems or ideas, but rather elitist and intolerant. Such intolerance of what is acceptable is greenlighting ostracization, exclusionary tactics, and other things that would shrink a community over allow it to blossom.

I can understand inconsistency of activity is a large problem as I have had my share of activity issues or creative droughts, but we should try to understand people for their faults and try to allow them to better themselves and keep trying to collaborate. @Lady Amalthea’s system while understandable also does create that exclusivity and that atmosphere of intolerance that I mentioned to be problematic. As a GM I would look at former inconsistent players with an open mind and simply make plans for it if their character does vanish as their interest or time does.

A more crucial problem to solve is making the community realize overextension is more of an issue that needs to be challenged because overextension is the problem a lot of users moreso than it is flippancy. In fact I would say there are three types of causes that lead to the effects of “flaking”. These would include:

• Overextension
• Responsibilities
• Diversions
• Creative Issues

Now, if you ask me I would say that two of these circumstances are fixable and the other two are not. Thus it is my frame of mind that we shouldn’t have problematic systems like karma or ban lists, or even banning people from all projects because they slipped up on a few days. Responsibilities and Creative Issues are hard to work over, and you should try to help players rather than give them a scarlet letter.

Help people not overextend and help them focus. Help, not judge.

[Lady Absinthia]

I wouldn't say that. Thing is that policing the activity or lack of activity in this case should be left up to Rpers and Gm's and shouldn't need to be the job of moderators.

My system works for me, I wouldn't expect it to work for others.

I don't auto deny people in an RP unless there is a major issue. (Flaking I don't consider a major issue.) In fact I only have 1 person on the forum currently that I would never allow in an RP of mine again and that isn't because of flaking. Do I have a list of people that have flaked out in the past or been kicked? Sure do. Doesn't mean they won't get another chance, just means things will be worked on if they join another. If I see they are already stretching themselves thin, I will ask them about it. I have had plenty drop Rp's without word and join one of mine.

I have had plenty of people step down from Rp's and come back later if they couldn't post for whatever reason (creativity, stretched too thin, illness, etc). For me I just expect those that join my Rp's personally to keep me in the loop. If they drop, just let me know. I don't hold that against people. I've had to drop Rp's I have been in for various reasons - thing is I don't just vanish, I let the GM know in the OOC.

I wouldn't expect any Gm to hold their Rpers in their Rp's to my rules, or visa-versa . That would be ludicrous. It's like hearing my kids go "Well Tommy's mom lets him!" if I tell them no on something - Yeah, well I am not Tommy's mom. Same goes for RP. People know what they are getting into when they join an Rp of mine, I hardly leave anything to guess in terms in rules and expectations. If they agree to it, then they can join. Then I make sure they are be held to it. Not only for my sanity but for the sake of my Rps and the other Rpers.

Again, I think it boils down to the Rpers and the GM's and for them to handle it as they see fit. Each GM is different, each will lay out the rules they want, they will enforce them as they see fit. Personally I see it as their right as a GM, they are taking the time and effort to put forth the RP. Once I step into another persons RP I am not in charge - That GM is God in that world. I don't like it, I can leave. I stay, I as an RPer am under an obligation to follow their rules. (Doesn't matter if that is post every day or sit there wearing a tea cozy on my head while I post and include a picture of it.) Their house, their rules.

Sure, we can work with people and most of us GM's do. We give reminders when people need to post, give them extensions if something comes up, we are there if they need to step out for a bit, we shelve their characters for a time if need be or bunny them off scene, we work them back in when they come back. Over time we learn their work schedules, when they have exams, when they get sick, who they just broke up with, even when their is a death in the family. Most Gm's are secondary advisors to their Rpers behind the scenes. We do what we can so an Rper is better for being in our RP.

But this all really boils down to Etiquette, that is something that I personally feels need to be taught more in Rp's but again, I don't believe that is a mod job. Hence why I am against a system that marks people for flaking out. If a Gm wants to set a standard that states you can't have flaked out before for any reason - that is up to them. Do I think it is a good idea? No, but then again, not my RP. For me, my rules are out there, they agree to them I'll work with them as long as they follow the rules they agreed to when they stepped into my RP.

As you said we need to work with Rpers and yes we do - each Gm should work with their Rpers - Their Rpers are what keeps the story going. Gm's need to let their Rpers know that if something comes up that their Rpers can tell them about it. Most Gm's won't hold it against someone if they leave as long as they are told. Takes all of five seconds to post in OOC or pm the Gm and say - Hey, I need to step down for a bit. Granted there is a vast difference between going ghost and pulling out of an RP.

[mickilennial]

Thank you for your succinct response. I'm also of the thought that communication and etiquette are the number one causes of RP fatigue and activity fallout.

[Rilla]

@The Harbinger of Ferocity Me personally, it is stated in my rules that you have to post every 7 days, end of story.

@Lady Amalthea

Actually, when running Allaria, o have a similar rule as well. Mine, however, extends to two weeks. Non habit forming. I post once a week, if I post two times and you haven't posted by my third one, it'll.include a death scene. Mainly if you haven't given notice or reason. Allaria contains a legend kill, where one guy got kicked in the ass by a giant chicken, went headfirst into the ass of the inactive party, who went headfirst into a tree and died.

[Ruby]

Sorry if this was already mentioned in this "Flake" discussion and I just missed it, but...

Some people change over time. Including a few people in this thread. Usually for the better. Good GMs, it seems, take that into consideration. Both in terms of "etiquette" and in terms of writing ability.

[mickilennial]

Good people take that into consideration.

[Isotope]

I agree that it's ultimately up to the GM, the idea of imposing a site wide system to do that judgement call for them is a bit silly.

If I GM an RP there are people I will not allow in it, and there are people I will accept without a sheet given my level of trust in them. Every GM has to make that call based on their own experiences.

[Dion]

I agree that it's ultimately up to the GM, the idea of imposing a site wide system to do that judgement call for them is a bit silly.

If I GM an RP there are people I will not allow in it, and there are people I will accept without a sheet given my level of trust in them. Every GM has to make that call based on their own experiences.

@Isotope

100% agree.

[BrokenPromise]

It's not like it's hard to look at someone's post history anyway, unless they do a lot of posting outside of the RP sections. of course, the forum search function can bring you to those posts easily enough.

[Dion]

It's not like it's hard to look at someone's post history anyway, unless they do a lot of posting outside of the RP sections. of course, the forum search function can bring you to those posts easily enough.

@BrokenPromise

Adding to that, posting a lot outside of the RP forums indicates some form of activity. It's your job also to assess whether they are appearing motivated enough to participate. I.e. the difference between doing a sheet in 2-3 days or doing it in 2 weeks. Which happens. And is a clear telltale sign of someone not really being motivated, especially if they post a lot elsewhere.

[Jerkchicken]

TBH I think for me the biggest priority lays in the technical side of site. I would like if Mahz got around to delegating some system of admins or sub-admins with the purpose of helping to implement features like PM deletion and letting you PM more people, upping security features to prevent the spambot infestations, finishing the search function, giving a bigger toolbox for mods to their jobs better and other quality of life stuff.

Regarding board merging as someone who's uses the tabletop section and thus is familiar with it, I'm gonna say no to merging nation rps with them. They lack any sort of proper mechanics to make them a tabletop game; yeah you might have some numbers or ranking or something used but that's not really a mechanic so much as it is an abstract rating. They're at best like a game of Diplomacy with made up nations and more flavor text. Someone else mentioned them becoming more narrative oriented and if that's true than they're just more of a specific sub-set of rp.

[Isotope]

Oh, new complaint.

Can we disable the visitor page? I made a reply whoopsie and now it's there forever on my profile.